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Old 07-28-2019, 04:24 PM   #1
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Do I need a Shipwright?

Hi everyone
I have a lean to starboard & wondering which professional is suited for the job.
After buying the boat, I stripped it if toilet, 240v oven 2 fridges which were all on starboard & it still leans. I found in the v berth locker on port side a large bag of graphite & also in locker in midship bed, a bag of cement. This is obviously to counter balance a weight issue. The tilt seems more pronounced on the aft deck. Itís a Cuddles 30í flybridge cruiser which has stabilizers added. I was wondering if the problem could be the stabilizer? Thereís no water in the Hull. Appreciate your advice. Thanks. Sue
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Old 07-28-2019, 05:30 PM   #2
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I'm not familiar with the terminology used down your way. I would think any good marine engineer would be able to advise on what should be done and how to do it safely.
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Old 07-28-2019, 05:50 PM   #3
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Location and content of fuel, water, and holding tanks? Liquids are one of the biggest variables in trim. I would keep looking for other items. Battery location?

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Old 07-28-2019, 06:54 PM   #4
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Assuming the "stabilizers" are bilge keels, the added weight is likely to be equal both sides. OCD`s pointers are good, more sleuthing required. Did removing the items make a difference?
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Old 07-28-2019, 07:00 PM   #5
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Ted has asked the right questions.

Sorry I have nothing useful to add but graphite? You mean the black stuff in pencils? Where do you even get a bag of graphite?
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Old 07-28-2019, 07:38 PM   #6
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Ted has asked the right questions.

Sorry I have nothing useful to add but graphite? You mean the black stuff in pencils? Where do you even get a bag of graphite?

All over the internets.



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Old 07-28-2019, 08:15 PM   #7
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Put all the stuff back in its place and start again.

How far from level is the boat?

I used bags of shotgun pellets on my Nordhavn.
If you ballast high it will take less ballast but, totally mess with the roll recovery.
Ballast below the water line and midship.
Another option, if you have a method of transferring fuel, move fuel port to starboard or vice versa and see if you can re-level the boat. Can be as simple as changing the return to the desired tank.
If you do not have a level, use a empty bottle or can. I have been told that works like a level too.
Once you get the boat level again, install an inclinometer.
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Old 07-28-2019, 08:35 PM   #8
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New boats are balanced by design, but owners add and remove items that can cause a list. Most people use cement because it's cheap, comes in bags, and with water will form fit to a space. Just make sure any ballast can't move, no matter how much the vessel rolls. You don't want ballast suddenly on the wrong side. And you don't want sand in the bilge pump.

I have about 2 tons of ballast. Mostly to sit lower for a better ride but also to make up for heavy items in the wrong place.



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Old 07-28-2019, 08:41 PM   #9
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Hi Sue.
These boats are very susceptible to listing (leaning) to one side or the other due to the round bilge hull shape. More so than any other boat I know of. The hull is very "tender" which has its pluses and minuses. A small difference in weight distribution is noticeable, whereas with a hard chined (squared off) hull shape generally sits flatter on the water and requires a bigger weight imbalance to cause a pronounced list.

I find the biggest factor with my Cuddles listing is the level in the water tanks. Because they are built into each outer side of the hull, a small difference makes a pronounced list. The fuel tanks are closer to the centre line, and although they may also affect the balance, it is not as much.

The first thing I'd suggest is to make sure both water tanks are full. Top each one up at each fill point; don't rely on the hose runs between them. See if that makes a difference to how the boat sits. I would also suggest to keep only one tank valve open (the low side) to supply water to your fresh water pump.

What I find with my boat if both supply valves are open, and there is a small imbalance in the boat, the water will run from the high side tank to the low side and it slowly makes the listing worse. The more the boat lists, the more water flows to the low side continuing to exacerbate the problem.

I use my water tanks as the primary means of keeping the boat balanced. As the water tank on one side is used and the other side becomes heavier, I swap over to using water from the low side again. Try that. Its much cheaper than hiring a shipwright.
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Old 07-28-2019, 10:38 PM   #10
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Thanks Ted. I have a 300 litre water tank on starboard & port just under saloon so I haven’t filled the starboard side. The same with fuel tanks. Not sure how much they hold but there’s none in the starboard. So it’s a bit of a mystery.
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Old 07-28-2019, 10:39 PM   #11
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Sue,
Please follow the suggestions of Ted and others above. Transfer fuel and or water. As a ballpark, fuel and water are roughly eight pounds per gallon, and moving small amounts can make a Hugh difference. I move fuel to balance the boat all the time.
Best of luck
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Old 07-28-2019, 10:45 PM   #12
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Thanks I’ll try that. I’ve kept water out of the starboard tank & turned the valve off. If it’s just the Hull shape, we’ll, I can live with that. But as i’ve Stripped it I haven’t yet put in the toilet, stove, fridge which will all be on the starboard side. Loving the boat though.
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Old 07-28-2019, 11:04 PM   #13
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I had a listing issue on a previous boat. I ended up glassing in several hundreds of pounds of lead. Lead works well because it is so heavy versus itís size. But for that same reason must be well secured.
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Old 07-29-2019, 12:22 AM   #14
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I should have known! Now why would anyone use graphite as ballast? Concrete is a LOT cheaper and heavier.

I bet the op found a bag of lead shot and thought it was graphite.
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Old 07-29-2019, 12:47 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by FreeSpiritSue View Post
Thanks Iíll try that. Iíve kept water out of the starboard tank & turned the valve off. If itís just the Hull shape, weíll, I can live with that. But as iíve Stripped it I havenít yet put in the toilet, stove, fridge which will all be on the starboard side. Loving the boat though.

You told us in your first post that your boat lists to starboard, even after you removed a bunch of stuff from the starboard side. We then suggest that fuel and water are your likely culprits and that maybe you should check your tankage. You are a very patient woman. My wife would have given me a look and said something along the lines of ďWhat do you take me for? An idiot?Ē

Your boat lists to starboard even without the toilet, stove, and fridge installed on the starboard side. This is without any fuel or water on that side AND a bunch of extra ballast on the port side. Once you add your appliances the list will be presumably be worse and that is with you only being able to use half your fuel or water capacity. Iím certainly stumped.

Maybe you should consider someone like a shipwright?

Oh wait, that was your original question.... ;-)

Maybe a really good surveyor? I donít know anything about the boat. If the the hull or decks are cored could massive water intrusion on the starboard side cause it? Are there any voids in the boat on the starboard side that could have filled with water? It is hard to imagine that the boat would have left the builder with that much of an imbalance and yet your finding the ballast indicates that the prior owner at some point was trying to correct a long standing problem.

I can only wish you luck.
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Old 07-29-2019, 04:28 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeSpiritSue View Post
Thanks Iíll try that. Iíve kept water out of the starboard tank & turned the valve off. If itís just the Hull shape, weíll, I can live with that. But as iíve Stripped it I havenít yet put in the toilet, stove, fridge which will all be on the starboard side. Loving the boat though.
Sue - It may be worth double checking to see if you starboard water tank is truly empty. It is possible the hose or valve is blocked up and not allowing water to drain.
Don't worry too much about the stove, toilet and small fridge. The total weight of all of those wouldn't change the weight distribution as much as a quarter tank of water.
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Old 07-29-2019, 05:05 AM   #17
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Are you tied to the dock or under way?

First ONE question. How many degrees off plumb are you?
One or two degrees, I wouldn't worry about it. Off plumb just makes it difficult to get 2 eggs in a small flying pan.

I too have a starboard list but that is because of tying my starboard side to the dock and the breast line and tide.
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Old 07-29-2019, 05:45 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeSpiritSue View Post
Thanks Ted. I have a 300 litre water tank on starboard & port just under saloon so I havenít filled the starboard side. The same with fuel tanks. Not sure how much they hold but thereís none in the starboard. So itís a bit of a mystery.
One of the challenges with trimming a boat is that there are items such as the galley that usually end up on one side and throw off your trim. As others have mentioned, adjustments can be made with fuel and water to offset this. Unfortunately, with full fuel and water, the list is still there. Sometimes you can stow heavier items on the high side such as drinks, canned goods, tools, and heavy spares to help trim the boat. Worth also noting, the heaviest items, furthest out to the hull, provide the best trimming value. Finally, while ballast placed outboard will solve the problem, adding useful ballast is a better option. A second battery bank or an additional water tank are items that come to mind. Something simple such as additional water in 5 gallon of one gallon jugs can solve trim problems and be useful.

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Old 07-29-2019, 07:35 AM   #19
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Not sure where you would get graphite in large quantities or at what price, but it is no even close to lead in terms of weight. Specific gravity of graphite is about 2 versus 11 for lead. So graphite is only 2x density of water and lead is 5.5 times heavier per unit of volume than graphite. So, it makes little (no) senses to use graphite for ballast. Should be easy to tell if it really lead shot just be heft.
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Old 07-29-2019, 09:15 AM   #20
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Quote:
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I should have known! Now why would anyone use graphite as ballast? Concrete is a LOT cheaper and heavier.

I bet the op found a bag of lead shot and thought it was graphite.

I don't know. Graphite is surprisingly light for it's size.


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