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Old 12-10-2009, 05:47 PM   #1
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Disapointment

The Fu Hwa 34 Europa, with glass decks and cabin top was high on my list of boats.* I like the layout and felt that the integrity of the glass decks would help me avoid a rotted cabin.

This afternoon, I visited the boat after a rain and was greatly disappointed to see trawler juice coming out of the cabin fitting.** I don't know how the water is getting in with a solid glass cabin roof, but it is.** I've looked closely at the windows and they look good. (?)*** I just don't know.* I would have thought this boat would have passed the water proof test.

There are things to* learn about boat right after a rain.....

http://www.pacyachts.com/47623/ORG/O...oatsbasic.aspx

-- Edited by Monterey10 on Thursday 10th of December 2009 06:48:55 PM
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Old 12-10-2009, 07:04 PM   #2
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Disapointment

Hiya,
Mr. Craig. don't be too dissapointed. Just from the pictures, I see some possible areas of concern. That "solid" glass roof has enough penetrations-mast, handrail stanchions (16 at least I can see in the pictures), helm seat to allow any amount of water into the core.
The bottom of the forward window in front of the lower station looks questionable**too (water damage) or it just could be the angle of the lighting/shadow of the picture.
The water injection elbow on the exhaust looks "iffy" as well.
Now all my comments are based on what I can sort of see in the pictures and I could be way off base, but the brown juice ain't a good sign.

-- Edited by RT Firefly on Thursday 10th of December 2009 08:06:17 PM
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Old 12-10-2009, 07:59 PM   #3
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Disapointment

Brown "juice" is not automatically a sign of dry rot. It can also be sealant or bedding compound that leaking water is bringing in with it. What some people call "bear snot" bedding compound/sealant was a common material in trawlers built in the 60s, 70s and 80s. Maybe it's still used today, I don't know. Grand Banks smeared this brown, sticky*stuff over the entire subdeck before laying the teak planking on top of it.

As RT said, there are plenty of places on the boat you're looking at where water could get into the cabin structure. Unfortunately, where the water appears in the cabin is not always an indication of where it is leaking in up above. Water has a nasty way of migrating, and in a boat with its curved surfaces, structural beams and stringers, and overall aft slope, where the water appears can be a long, long way from where it's actually getting in through the deck, overhead deck, window frame, etc.

When you say water coming out of the cabin fitting, what do you mean by "cabin fitting?"


-- Edited by Marin on Thursday 10th of December 2009 09:00:09 PM
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Old 12-10-2009, 08:20 PM   #4
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RE: Disapointment

Keep looking, nothing the matter with exceeding 20 look ats. Most lower priced boats are junk, but there are some real nuggets - be persistent and you'll find a good one. Do not be in a hurry.
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Old 12-10-2009, 08:25 PM   #5
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Disapointment

Side of salon just aft of the front windshield



Trawler juice on edge of cabin. I can't see where it's coming from.* None of these brown stains were evident before last week's rain.



I pulled the hatch and found teak on top of glass.* Better than most I've looked at.



Nice wide deck and high gunnels.* A safety consideration with the wife and kids.



A patch job on the side of the cabin, forward of the front windshield.* This area is glass. There's no wood on top.* Could it have come from the windshield?




This boat is more money, but appears sound.*

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1984.../United-States

-- Edited by Monterey10 on Thursday 10th of December 2009 09:29:16 PM

-- Edited by Monterey10 on Thursday 10th of December 2009 09:35:15 PM
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Old 12-10-2009, 08:57 PM   #6
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The double cabin rocks. It looks in really good shape all over.

-- Edited by Fotoman on Thursday 10th of December 2009 09:57:50 PM
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Old 12-11-2009, 06:55 AM   #7
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RE: Disapointment

What double cabin are you talking about?
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Old 12-11-2009, 07:21 AM   #8
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RE: Disapointment

Hiya,
** DON'T get emmotional!!!!* AT ALL!!!!* The best way to determine the condition of any boat, if you're not very familiar with boats, is get a good survey.* I'm not saying to survey every boat you look at but a $1000+ investment in a good survey might prevent BIG $$ and grief (not being able to use the boat while repairs are being done etc.) down the river/road.
** Another plus is that while you're present for the survey you can pick the surveyors brain and learn some about boat conditions in general.* You might also be able to hire the surveyor to come with you for a day or so to, NOT do a complete boat survey, but look at several boats and have him give his overall impressions of a number of boats.* I don't know if this is ever done and you will have to pay him for his time but you can always ask.
** As sunchaser said, "Don't be in a hurry" and did I mention DON'T get emmotional!!!!* There's tons of boats out there.
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Old 12-11-2009, 08:01 AM   #9
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RE: Disapointment

It's been tough finding a boat worthy of surveying.** If I can see the faults, why bring the man to the boat.*** I imagine that seeing faults would be useful when discussing the price.
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Old 12-11-2009, 08:37 AM   #10
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Hiya,
** I hear ya.* What you consider "faults" may not be.* Marin suggested one possible source of the brown guck.* That being said, go with your gut feeling.* The YW trunk cabin appears to be in better shape, BUT it IS $20K more.
** Final price negotiations are usually based on what the surveyor finds.* A seller may not go very low before a survey if he/she feels survey findings will really knock off the $$.

-- Edited by RT Firefly on Friday 11th of December 2009 09:40:21 AM
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Old 12-11-2009, 09:28 AM   #11
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Disapointment

So does the boat have any signs of prior permanent water damage interior or exterior?* Did the survey find any questionable areas? *Does the boat usually have canvas coverings on?* **Many boats will leaks during a heavier then normal rain as the water puddle higher than normal or the water can not drain off the boat fast enough. Even a change in the trim of the boat can cause the boat to leak.

Windows are the usual cause especially the sliding windows as the water gets trapped in the rails if the drain holes are plugged or the window do not have drain holes.* The most common area of rot in the PNW is under the windows, followed by areas where water can pool. The simplest fix might be a canvas over the windows and/or bridge.
*****
*

*


-- Edited by Phil Fill on Friday 11th of December 2009 10:29:25 AM
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Old 12-11-2009, 09:31 AM   #12
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RE: Disapointment

Core rot is insidious. A survey can distinguish between core rot and poor caulking. IMHO, taking a vessel to survey that has potential hull or topsides issues is a poor gamble. As an aside, any chance this boat could be a Hurricane vessel? Partially sunk or battered boats exhibit the symptoms you are seeing - brown crud that the owner can hide until the next rain or wash. Your insurer may have an issue with a vessel that gets poor survey marks; bank for sure if you are financing
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Old 12-11-2009, 11:53 AM   #13
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Disapointment

Craig--- Something you might consider doing, if you haven't already, is if you have a friend or acquaintance who has had a lot of experience with boats of the type you're interested in, take him or her along to look at a boat you're considering.

We did this when we decided to investigate the possibility of acquiring our own GB instead of continuing to charter. The local GB dealer was informed of an older GB36 coming on the market in Alameda, CA and based on the information faxed up to the dealer from the selling broker we made an offer on the boat contingent on it's being what we actually wanted, passing a sea trial, and getting acceptable hull and engine survey results.

Fortunately a good friend of ours is the head of engineering at a major marine engine and generator manufacturing company. He's been around boats for 30-plus years and had a lot of experience with GBs since the engines his company makes are popular replacements if it comes time to re-engine a boat. He didn't care if we bought this particular boat or not, so we paid his airfare and travel expenses to accompany us to California to check out the boat. It was the best money we could have spent, and largely on his opinion (plus the sea trial and surveys) we decided to buy the boat.

Our friend could look at a wiring panel or an anchor windlass mount or you name it and realize that it had problems, potential problems, or was in good shape. Some things were obvious enough for us to judge ourselves, but he could catch the not-so-obvious things or things we simply had no knowledge of. Mind you, we did not bring him along as a replacement for professional hull and engine surveys, but simply to provide the completely objective knowledge and expertise about this kind of boat that we lacked.* In fact, part of the reason we wanted him along was to serve as a "reality meter" on the findings of the hull and engine surveyors because we did not have the experience or knowledge of this type of boat to determine if what the surveyors were saying was correct, sort of correct, maybe not so correct, or not correct.* Our friend did.

I'm assuming that, like my wife and I were at the time, you have boating experience--- you have a boat now--- but are not that familiar with trawler-type boats, their construction, and their systems. Finding someone who is but who has no vested interest in whether or not you buy a particular boat, could prove a real benefit as you continue your search.

-- Edited by Marin on Friday 11th of December 2009 12:59:22 PM
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Old 12-11-2009, 07:03 PM   #14
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RE: Disapointment

Sounds like a good idea.** I am early in the search.* Each boat I look at I learn something.* I'll look for person with experience.
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Old 12-12-2009, 03:19 AM   #15
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RE: Disapointment

"If I can see the faults,"

IF you are waiting for a "PERFECT" boat , it may be decades, even brand new boats take 6 mos to a year to get usefull, never "Perfect">

All toys are a compromise , the best is where what YOU* do to the boat adds value , making the Round Trip easier on the billfold.

Suitable for your purpose should be #1 , then roomaran layout and equippment left to replace ect.

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