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Old 01-24-2016, 04:56 PM   #61
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imho, there is simply insufficient info here on condition of boat, experience of Captain and amount of calendar time to make responsible recommendations on routing via an e-mail thread. Full Stop.

Dan, Sabre 32.
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Old 01-24-2016, 05:00 PM   #62
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I think everyone here is being real.

Everyone has their own experiences and opinions.

You can get your butt whooped in any of the bays or sounds. Your boat can catch fire or sink at the dock.

In the last 20 or so trips up and down the ICW and ocean...tthe worst I have experienced was in Currituck sound because I broke the rule of travelling with winds forecast over 25 knots and thought small water...big mistake. So simple rules keep you in comfort and safety if you follow them. Even travelling in Dec and April I have had few weather days sitting still.

And I still say for the majority of the run...each short day is like a shakedown cruise where service and support is just as likely than where you started from. Usually, withing a few hours at the dock and the first few hours you know if the typical trawler is going to keep going.

After dozens if deliveries... I probably had as many show stoppers with new boats as I had with dock queens. Breakdowns happen randomly...not withing a specified time or distance from home.
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Old 01-24-2016, 05:26 PM   #63
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You are right. This is exactly the type of boating that this vessel was built to do. Montauk to Cape May. Start out into the Atlantic on a course that will take you 60 miles off shore and require a 24 hour overnight cruise. If SeaTow won't respond in an emergency (they are only 5 hours away) you can call the Coasties.

The weather patterns in this area do not fit into convenient three day windows. You have weather changing in a matter of hours. Fog developing in a matter of minutes. And your points are accurate. IF you have a well sorted out vessel. Does anything that the OP has offered convince you that this vessel has been "sorted out"? It has been up on land. He has a broker's and past owner's word that everything is working. What could possibly go wrong? And have you also been convinced that Drinkinbuddy is competent to make this voyage? He is asking us how to get to Miami from Rhode Island, as if he believes he can take a couple notes and then commission his new boat as soon as the marina unfreezes and leave the next day.

If you are looking for adventure, ask him if you can join him. That would definitely improve the experience level. But, if I were going along, which I wouldn't in all honesty, I'd take my credit card and a dry suit, and my own life raft, an epirb, .... well you get the idea.

You're never 60 miles offshore even on a straight line course between Montauk to Cape May. In fact, depending on I guess your definition of "offshore", at the most your 44 nm off the cut into Sandy Hook from the Eaton's Neck Research Buoy. Which is the buoy you would be nearest off of NY/NJ at the time you could be considered to be the farthest offshore on the straight line course. But from that point offshore you are actually offshore less than 35 nm in a straight line.

Now if you run the coast and stay close in you only add about 22 extra miles to the trip. From 195 nm to a distance of 217 nm. Or about an extra 3 run hours at 7.5 knots. So either way you only need a day and a half to a maximum two day weather window. Not 3 full days.

Plus you have a number of places you could go into if the forecast took a turn for the worse.
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Old 01-25-2016, 02:28 PM   #64
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You're never 60 miles offshore even on a straight line course between Montauk to Cape May.

Now if you run the coast and stay close in you only add about 22 extra miles to the trip. From 195 nm to a distance of 217 nm. Or about an extra 3 run hours at 7.5 knots. So either way you only need a day and a half to a maximum two day weather window. Not 3 full days.

Plus you have a number of places you could go into if the forecast took a turn for the worse.
Drinkenbuddy: Here are your inlet options along the southern coast of Long Island and the coast of New Jersey.
1. Shinnecock Inlet (31 miles or about 4 hours west of Montauk Point) The inlet should not be attempted without local knowledge because of frequent changes in channel depths. Tidal currents through the inlet can be dangerous and caution is advised.

2. Moriches Inlet (44 miles or about 5 1/2 hours west of Montauk Point) This is a shallow entrance from seaward to the deeper Moriches Bay. The jettied entrance is subject to frequent change. Mariners are advised not to attempt to navigate this inlet at any time without local knowledge.

3. Fire island Inlet (28 miles or another 3 1/2 hours) west of Moriches Inlet. This inlet is subject to frequent changes... Mariners are warned to beware of extreme tidal turbulence especially during times of tidal change and should seek local knowledge of the latest conditions before attempting to enter. Navigation of the inlet is difficult even with relatively calm seas and can be extremely dangerous. During heavy weather, the entrance usually is obstructed by breakers.

4. Jones Inlet (12 miles or another 1 1/2 hours west of Fire island Inlet) The inlet is used mostly by local pleasure craft and fishermen and should not be attempted without local knowledge due to constant changes in the channel.

From this point, you will be crossing about 50 miles of open ocean working your way toward your next safe haven, Manasquan Inlet in New Jersey. If the weather does turn nasty and you are able to make it through the inlet, watch out for the railroad bridge. It will lower when a train approaches, but you should have plenty of notice if the current is not too strong.



Then, it is just a pleasure cruise down to Cape May. If things get snotty on this section, there is always Barnegat, Little Egg and Brigantine Inlets to explore.



I realize that your plans are to do this voyage when your weather window allows. The weather window for Montauk may be completely different from the south Jersey coast, so I would try to choose a weather window where all circumstances are favorable. If nothing breaks on your new boat, you should be OK..
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Old 01-25-2016, 03:05 PM   #65
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Gee, I'm glad you're not trying to scare him off this trip.

So are you ever going to tell us what type boat you do have to have to make the trip? And what the minimum size is it needs to be?

Or should we just assume it's a 50+ foot rescue boat that's capable of surviving a 360 deg. roll over with out losing power?

And you seem to have left out a few usable inlets along that route.
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Old 01-25-2016, 03:17 PM   #66
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Time again to post (#41) what I have received attaboy email for....
"Just fear mongering that persists on boating forums.

The minute some experienced boaters think they can lecture to a novice...boating becomes death defying. "


Those inlets can be flat or crappy any time f the year...in fact I have seen them at their worst in late summer from a mean offshore swell from passing tropical storms or strong sea breeze against the tide.


You could be fat dumb and happy, cruising in August along Long Island or Jersey...have an issue and head for any of those inlets and have a pretty wild ride in a slow moving Trawler.


May is NOT a bad month along the Jersey Coast...except you can get days of AM or even all day advection fog....with late May/early June actually sometimes worse than the beginning because of the warmer air.

Great video examples...

The first one shows waves breaking on the beach...not the inlet unless I missed a shot of it. It was probably safely passable by a 36 foot trawler even in those conditions....looking at surf to the beach is a really bad fearmongering example.

from the text of the second video...."Thursday, March 7, 2013, as 10-16 foot ocean swells and surf up to 15 feet were recorded off Long Beach Island, N.J. " First it is March, second if you are out in 10-16 foot swells, it just didn't blow up and you were foolish to be there as it was probably well forecast...just like this last winter storm.


The RR bridge in Manasquan is about 9 tenths of a mile inside of the breakwaters. You should be aware that it is there and there is a strong incoming tide some of the time. Drinkinbuddie...make sure you can stop your boat in 9 tenths of a mile. Here is a more common view of Manasquan inlet.
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Old 01-25-2016, 03:45 PM   #67
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If you have zero experience and are known for poor judgement and taking unnecessary risks, then perhaps fear mongering is appropriate.

Otherwise, it's wise for you to respect the risks and manage them, but not fear them to an extent to rob yourself of this pleasure. People cruise these areas every day without issues. People follow the weather and stay put all the time until the next clear window. There will be others at marinas and in various areas looking for the same windows you are. It was so funny in August-October we kept ending up in similar places as Capt Bill and during the storm in October, we were waiting for good conditions in Myrtle Beach while he was doing the same in Charleston. He's not the only person ever to run this route and won't be the only one out there when he does.

You check multiple weather sources, you talk to locals. If you have questions about whether you should try an inlet, talk to a tow captain. They're glad to help and the best possible local knowledge.

My fear in all this has nothing to do with the route or the sea conditions. It does have to do with the condition of the boat and with the knowledge and skill of the OP. None of his posts here have done anything to reassure me in that area in spite of his sailing experience.

I'd be terrified of an unproven $9000 boat. That's what he says he paid in another thread. That boat likely has serious problems unless it was a divorce sale where the guy sold it cheap to avoid splitting more with his wife or something. I also fear his cheapness and the shortcuts he might take in maintaining it and failure to get help when needed. The likelihood isn't that weather or sea conditions will be his undoing. More likely mechanical or a leak or something. I hope he has tow coverage, stays close, and has a very good radio and phone.

The route doesn't scare me at all. These other factors do.
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Old 01-25-2016, 04:15 PM   #68
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And all that is fine and has been discussed.


Making up the worst possible scenarios is fine as long as you say they are a possibility...not a probability.


My last big rescue occurred near the mouth of Delaware Bay. A world class sailor, in a world class sailboat boat left the anchorage at Atlantic City in the morning because he felt the anchorage wasn't all that good for the impending weather. Tropical Storm Josephine, still located near Hatteras but expected to move north, was wobbling around a just a few miles an hour.


Well...it expanded and raced north just after he departed Atlantic City. Conditions deteriorated to 35-50 knot winds and 20 foot seas. Well...even with a great electronic suite he wound up on Hens and Chicken shoals, missing the mouth of the Delaware Bay completely.


He and his wife were washed overboard but recovered. The boat was found nicely motoring in circles about 35 miles south the next day.


Even though that is a glaring case...I would say the vast majority of cruising type boaters are more conservative than bold, especially with a new to them boat. Bottom line is...all the posts in the world won't keep someone from making a bad decision no matter what the schedule is, no matter what the route is, no matter what other risks are identified....the urge to keep moving is either there that day or wisdom (no t just experience or knowledge) kicks in an says "no"


Good luck passing along wisdom.


Without knowing more about the OPs real experience...passing along details that may be overlooked and neat places to stay is really all he needs. The actual routing is pretty simple based on what he wants to bite off each day.
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Old 01-25-2016, 07:18 PM   #69
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I have already given my advise to Drinkenbuddy:

My advise is to pay the extra month on the hard until near the end of June. Take it up into Narragansett Bay and anchor out for whatever time it takes to know that all the systems work. Then, plan 50 mile/8 hour days of travel and study potential ports along your route where you can pull into if things do hit the fan. If you have to schedule, plan for one day in port for bad weather for every day of travel. If you get ahead of that "schedule" all the better. Buy both a SeaTow and BoatUS insurance and get the unlimited towing. Take at least one, if not two other knowledgeable boaters with you for every leg, at least until you get into the ICW. I am not trying to discourage you from making the trip. You bought the boat and you have to get it home. Just try to stack the odds more in your favor.

A dependable 36' Marine Trader can make the trip to Miami assuming the pilot is reasonably experienced and shows good judgement. I made the trip many times myself in a 43' Marine Trader. The size of the boat is not what concerns me.

Some on here are suggesting that one option for Drinkenbuddy is to save all this time testing his boat and avoid taking short shake-down legs and that he can easily take 150 to 220 mile legs on the outside. Just check the weather carefully. BS That advise is irresponsible. Choosing a weather window in New England for a 25 hour over-night trip to southern New Jersey isn't the same as picking a window to travel the 60 miles to The Bahamas at any time of the year. I can guarantee you that whatever weather window Drinkenbuddy guesses will work for him leaving Fairhaven, has nothing to do with the weather that he will encounter in south Jersey.

An untested $9000 Marine Trader? In May? A captain that has never traveled in these waters? My prediction is that fortunately, for Drinkenbuddy's sake, there is a very good chance that he will not make it to Montauk on that first leg without running into serious trouble. And he will be far better off fighting the waters off Block Island and the mouth of Narragansett Bay than he would be trying to figure out how to get through breakers into Fire Island or Barnagat Bay in the middle of the night.

What? He should keep his fingers crossed? If he lucks out on the weather, should he keep his fingers crossed that his hydraulic steering system holds up? And what about the fuel in his tanks? Is there crud on the bottom that will stir up? Just take a lot of filters? Will fuel leaks present themselves? Keep your fingers crossed Drinkenbuddy! What about your electronics? You won't like self-steering along the coast. If you do enjoy it, it will cost you a few more hours travel. Since you haven't had your engines surveyed nor tested, keep your fingers crossed that you don't have a cooling problem. Is everyone OK that his shafts and bearings will hold up? What about his tranny? How many fingers do you have Drinkenbuddy? Take some extra crew, if for nothing else but the extra fingers.

If you really want to get your boat to Miami, call me 513 518-5069. We will test out your boat. We will leave in June. We will go inside all the way. It will take us about 3 weeks if all goes well. I will pay my own way plus part of the boat's cost. And you will have a boat in Miami without too many night sweats.
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Old 01-25-2016, 07:40 PM   #70
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That is a nice offer. Have fun.
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Old 01-25-2016, 07:53 PM   #71
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May weather in the mid-atlantic states is 3 day NE blow of 20-30 knots then 3 day NW blow of 20-30 knots followed by a day or 2 of nice weather until the next cold front comes. It can drive you to drinking!
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Old 01-25-2016, 07:54 PM   #72
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Drinkinbuddy and Cutty Sark...What a team!
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Old 01-25-2016, 08:20 PM   #73
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$9,000 trawler? Yikes. Like buying a $100 car and heading across country.

Cuttyhunk, bring your tools!!
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Old 01-25-2016, 08:27 PM   #74
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This type of posting is very common on the sailing site with a OP asking for information on how to get a boat and sail across an ocean. While this OP's post is not as radical it apparently set off alarms for some of our regular posters. It is hard to accurately judge the whole of a situation from the minimal information usually given. We really don't know the full nature of the boat or its skipper. The best we can do is alert the OP to the potential risks and give information on how to do. Unfortunately how to do can be very different depending on the skipper or the boat or the combination. As to scarring off a OP considering the possible nature of the Jersey and LI inlets a little fear is probably a good thing. By the way that CG boat in Barnegat Inlet looks like it is going out that is the easy part it is coming in from sea where it is really dangerous when waves break on the stern and its much harder to see the extent from outside. If you are outside and your tired low on fuel or any other reason to push your judgment to go in when you should stay out the danger is even greater. From inside if it looks bad its a no brainer turn around and go ICW or use your anchor some where until things change. The above advise is directed to the OP and anybody else who has little respect or experience with these inlets. Aside from the inlets the trip can be boring if you rush it. You can run aground(join Sea tow-have a dinghy). The biggest challenge as pointed out by others is a new to OP boat which is old condition unknown. I agree with others the OP should take the time to get familiar with the boat and proof it before heading to open water and the coastal inlets. Another hint old tanks with dirty fuel commonly rear their ugly heads when the boat starts getting tossed around like in an inlet crossing. I would rather put fear in a boater than encourage one to do something foolish. The fear hopefully will push one to more research and increased care.
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Old 01-25-2016, 08:43 PM   #75
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I'm going to try to talk psneeld to come along. I'm sure we would have a great time. He knows these waters like the back of his hand and I will whine and moan all the way about not taking undue chances. So we will have a $9000 boat, a million dollars worth of experience and my 2 cents worth of caution.
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Old 01-25-2016, 09:04 PM   #76
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Is this the same east coast where old farts that have never heard of a computer forum buy their first boat and take off for a 5,000 mile trip every year??? The OP doesn't want to go crab fishing in the Bering Sea in January. Head in a generally easterly direction and turn right, when you smell Ben Gay and see half naked bimbos frolicking around on yachts pull over, you've made it to Florida.

Exercise common sense and if the water is rough and the forecast is crap don't pull the anchor. Speaking of crappy weather pack a case of fuel filters and KNOW how to change them because if your tanks are dirty you'll find out when conditions get nautical. Changing the o-rings on your deck fills is a good idea too. If the trip goes pear shaped leave the boat at one of the dozens of marinas along the way and come home, go back and finish the delivery when you have more time off.

Most of all have fun and take your time, pleasure boating is supposed to be pleasurable. Read posts buy VicTrawler on this site, he and his bride just bought your boats twin and drove it straight down the west coast from bc to Mexico.
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Old 01-25-2016, 09:19 PM   #77
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Most of all have fun and take your time, pleasure boating is supposed to be pleasurable. Read posts buy VicTrawler on this site, he and his bride just bought your boats twin and drove it straight down the west coast from bc to Mexico.
VicTrawler prepared.
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Old 01-25-2016, 09:25 PM   #78
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VicTrawler prepared.

No kidding Sherlock.

Why does everyone assume nobody else will unless they are told to?
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Old 01-25-2016, 09:36 PM   #79
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[STRIKE[/STRIKE]
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No kidding Sherlock.

Why does everyone assume nobody else will unless they are told to?
Thank you
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Old 01-25-2016, 10:45 PM   #80
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"Some on here are suggesting that one option for Drinkenbuddy is to save all this time testing his boat and avoid taking short shake-down legs and that he can easily take 150 to 220 mile legs on the outside."

More baloney. (I'm getting hungry. :-) )

I haven't seen where anybody here has said any such thing. Some suggested he could make use of the offshore route. But nobody has suggested he do it in a boat that hasn't been sorted out.

Your points, while valid in many cases, might be better served without the large side of hyperbole that you seem to have to add to them.
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