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Old 12-11-2013, 04:06 PM   #1
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Dilemma

Hello all, While shopping for boats in my price range I have come to the conclusion that it's come down to 2 choices: The first is to buy a mid 70s vintage trawler (marine trader)with all the headaches involved but great mileage allowing me to cruise or a late 80s boat like a Carver or chris craft that are cheap and easily found in good shape but burdened with twin 454s and the inherent fuel guzzling. What would you do? Any advice appreciated
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Old 12-11-2013, 04:07 PM   #2
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Hello all, While shopping for boats in my price range I have come to the conclusion that it's come down to 2 choices: The first is to buy a mid 70s vintage trawler (marine trader)with all the headaches involved but great mileage allowing me to cruise or a late 80s boat like a Carver or chris craft that are cheap and easily found in good shape but burdened with twin 454s and the inherent fuel guzzling. What would you do? Any advice appreciated
Go for the marine trader, buy your second boat first.
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Old 12-11-2013, 04:56 PM   #3
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Look for a genuine Jensen Marine PassageMaker 40. These boats are all glass, built in female production molds in the USA. Since they donít have any plywood in the structure, have manufactured windows, and never had teak decks they are free of many of the problems of the Taiwanese boats.

The identical boat was also built in the USA by Downeast Yachts.

Be careful at yachtworld since they list several Taiwanese splashed boats as PassageMakers.

Full disclosure - I own Jensen Marine hull #105 out of a total of 132. My admiral will have to sell it after I'm dead and gone.

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Here is one in Miami.



Another in Marco Island.
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Old 12-11-2013, 05:32 PM   #4
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For most boaters under 100 hours/year the cost of fuel is small compared to the total cost of ownship. So don't let the cost of fuel be the primary/major factor.

If your SO does not like the boat it really does not matter as you will not be using it much anyway.
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Old 12-11-2013, 05:38 PM   #5
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Since you are asking this on trawler forums we are a bit biased.

Seriously, it depends on what you plan on doing with theboat. If you are looking for something that you are using a few weeks a year then go with the gasser.

If you aregoing to get more serious about it then go with the trawler.

The second option is more of a lifestyle rather than a hobby. As part of that lifestyle there is an amount ofwork involved.

What are your plans?
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Old 12-11-2013, 05:47 PM   #6
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Hello all, While shopping for boats in my price range I have come to the conclusion that it's come down to 2 choices: The first is to buy a mid 70s vintage trawler (marine trader)with all the headaches involved but great mileage allowing me to cruise or a late 80s boat like a Carver or chris craft that are cheap and easily found in good shape but burdened with twin 454s and the inherent fuel guzzling. What would you do? Any advice appreciated
What a great first world problem to have

Write down that YOUR needs are first. Only then can you really get a handle on which way to go.

Me- I prefer diesel, a cockpit/aft cabin arrangement, twin screws and a flybridge.
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Old 12-11-2013, 06:25 PM   #7
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advice

Thanks for all the advice! I plan on staying at whatever marina I purchase the boat at and then heading down to the keys to live aboard after some shakedown cruises and living on the hook for a while. Where from there I don't know but it may be just key hopping and diving...I am soon to be happily single and hope to stay that way for a while at least...I've determined that I am more of a loner than a lover. Tahnxall
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Old 12-11-2013, 06:32 PM   #8
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Ask any owner, fuel is a consideration but it's waaaay down the list of things that all cost more. Capital costs, moorage, insurance, haul outs, cans of paint, heat exchangers, food, booze, stoves, ropes, batteries, replacing this and that, outboards, dinghies, oh, right, some gas for the boat. Gensets, toilets, wires, radar blah blah blah....

Buy what works for you, right now, with your current skillset, knowledge and energy level. Taiwanese boats, in my opinion, are now so old they are not a boat for an amateur/first time buyer. Buy the wrong T. boat and your fuel costs won't even register.
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Old 12-11-2013, 07:59 PM   #9
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Take a look at a late 80's or early 90's 38' Bayliner. I think most were made with Diesels (Hino), They are a popular boat so there are a lot of them around, They are a really great looking boat and you get a lot of boat for the money. I think they look more like a trawler but some guys have outfitted them as a sportfisherman. If i was in your position, that is the boat i would look at. There is a lot of them on Yachtworld with complete photos so you can see if it fits your taste. Good luck
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Old 12-11-2013, 08:32 PM   #10
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OK - I just gatta chime in!

Sounds like you have a pretty fun "single" life planned out ahead of ya. Get it on and stay safe. Having been adult-single in times of my already several lives there are things I could recommend you do... but... this is the hardly the forum for chatting bout that stuff! Good luck trolling!! LOL

Anyway - I suggest you look closely at Tollycraft boats in the 34' to 48' range... larger if you like. Some have gassers and some have diesels. If there are any in your neck o' da waters go aboard and check em out. Tolly are one of the best built production boats I've ever come across; seaworthy and comfortable too. I recommend for simplicity sake and least required effort that boat you choose has little to no wood on its exterior. Interior wood is relatively easy to care for and keep in good condition, exterior wood usually ain't... in any climate; unless you just love spending many full days working on your boat's wood to keep it in good shape and pretty - I simply don't... cause, in previous years - I've been there done that!

With any multi decade aged boat about the most impotant thing is POs' care for the boat. Some oldies are still in great condition and some should be dismantled for scrap!

Yachtworld usually has plenty of Tolly's listed.

Hope you soon locate boat of your dreams and cruise off into a single life of blissful excitement - till you get hooked up again, which usually happens to us who had previous relationships that ended for any reason!

Happy Boating Daze! - Art
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Old 12-11-2013, 11:22 PM   #11
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It's all about miles travels and waters traversed....

If you don't travel but a few hundred miles a year...fuel is not a concern...and engines and vessel efficiency isn't as big a deal...
If you never plan on 24+ hours at sea...chances are a coastal design will do as well as a more "offshore" boat...

So buy a boat that fits...not one hat someone sells you or convinces you of what you need....

Figure out you need...fill the need...no reason to go beyond if budget is a concern.
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Old 12-12-2013, 07:24 AM   #12
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I purchase the boat at and then heading down to the keys to live aboard after some shakedown cruises and living on the hook for a while.

This will require many compromises.

A dock queen will have all the comforts of home , but when anchored out almost all systems choices will be wrong.

For the self sufficiency required for long term on the hook, eitrher the noisemaker 24/7 will be required (a pair is best) or a very different outfitting from how a Dock Queen is assembled.

EG ,1200 lbs of batts vs almost none.

To get underway 24/7 noisemaker does work and is a requirement in FL summers anyway.
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Old 12-12-2013, 07:28 AM   #13
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You have gotten a lot of good advice. So far resale issues have not been mentioned. This is a tough one as the current boat market may be depressed. Short term or long term I don't know.

With your first big boat it is difficult to determine what will be important to you. You may find that your initial selection is not what fits your needs and want to resell.

A second factor with the resale is the future cost of fuel. While fuel seems high right now to Americans it is in fact rather low compared to much of the rest of the world. If we were to have the equivalent of $8 to $9 dollars (US) per gallon would that substantially affect the value of those trawlers with large engines. Perhaps a couple of our Canadian posters can chime in with thoughts on those engines and Canadian fuel prices.

Don't think there are clear answers, just be aware of the resale issues.

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Old 12-12-2013, 09:36 AM   #14
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Take a look at a late 80's or early 90's 38' Bayliner. I think most were made with Diesels (Hino), They are a popular boat so there are a lot of them around, They are a really great looking boat and you get a lot of boat for the money. I think they look more like a trawler but some guys have outfitted them as a sportfisherman. If i was in your position, that is the boat i would look at. There is a lot of them on Yachtworld with complete photos so you can see if it fits your taste. Good luck
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It's hard to beat a 38 bayliner for room and price. No teak decks and minimal teak trim. The Hino's are easy to maintain and relatively cheap.

You can pick up a 70's or 80's Chinese boat for a song, but getting it to a reasonable condition will cost much more than a mid 80's Bayliner or gas Carver.

Forget about fuel costs. Unless you use the boat 500 hrs a year it will not be your major cost.

For more info about the 38 Bayliners check out the Bayliner Owners Club. Larger Bayliners are not the same as the cheap run abouts.
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Old 12-13-2013, 09:01 AM   #15
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The late 70's to late 80's 35' Chris Craft Catalinas can be had for low dollars. These are very roomy boats that are built like tanks. With small block gas motors, they don't eat alot of fuel if you cruise them slow.

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Old 12-13-2013, 10:17 AM   #16
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The late 70's to late 80's 35' Chris Craft Catalinas can be had for low dollars. These are very roomy boats that are built like tanks. With small block gas motors, they don't eat alot of fuel if you cruise them slow.

Yes another very good choice. My dock mate had one of these and I was impressed with the layout.
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Old 12-13-2013, 11:16 AM   #17
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fuel costs

I have a 38 Bayliner with Hinos and I like it but I would propose an alternative view of fuel costs. The way I see it is that I have to pay for dockage storage and maintenance anyway so those are required costs and I will do what I can to go where they are cheap but as to fuel that is different. Although it may not be any higher than my bar bill, nevertheless it is discretionary. That means I choose to go cruising or not depending on how flush I feel. With the Hinos it is pretty cheap and I go when I like but with gassers I probably would be a dock queen so fuel choice equals less limitations.
I am Canadian but mostly fuel up in the US because of price. I think I would simply travel less if I fueled up in Canada.
I should point out one more thing. Although this is my first diesel craft, I do like the less explosive concept with diesels and after the first year I do not find their operation or repair intimidating.
If it would confuse the situation even more I probably would like one more boat before I quit. That would most likely be a 40 to 43 Taiwanese product. I would stay mid eighties and go for the Jefferson or Present or something similar but as most owners will attest, the specific life history and up keep of that specific vessel is more critical than the exact model.
My Bayliner is fine and will do what you want but you might be more comfortable with a bit more of a trawler hull as you seem to be going where you will be more exposed than I am in freshwater.
One last item, even a 38 is a bit of a challenge to dock single handed. For you, especially with limited experience, twins or a thruster would likely be imperative.
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Old 12-13-2013, 11:39 AM   #18
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No, that is not me or our 34' Tolly - it is a duplicate - obviously at or near WOT, doing in the early 20 + knot speed range and simply chugging fuel - of any type! At below calculated hull speed of 7.58 knots (say 6 knots) it can get pretty affordable with gas or diesel engines. On one screw at 5 to 5.5 knots we calc at 2.75 + nmpg running a 350 cid 255 hp Mercruiser gasser. Same hull comes in sedan model too. 40' to 48' Tolly are this tri cabin model expanded and they have cockpit... with a few 37' and 40' sedans interspersed. Good luck in whatever boat you acquire!! Some Tolly are gas and some diesel. As length get longer diesel becomes more often power source.

To see several similar 34's:

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...dedSelected=-1
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Old 12-14-2013, 02:50 PM   #19
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I saw a couple of people recommend the 38xx series Bayliner I'll add my .02 cents. I also have a 3870 Bayliner with the Hinos, the early models were powered from the factory with Mitsubishi diesels. The Mitsubishi were branded Chrysler, I think around 1985 Bayliner started using the NA EH-700 175 hp Hinos. Around 1992 they started using twin 210 hp turbo charged 4 cylinder Hinos, all along they also built 225 hp gas powered 38xx. The Mitsubishi were 130 hp in the NA model, this was pretty much trawler performance, some have mits with a turbo I don't know if this was a factory setup or a dealer option maybe some owners did the update. This got the hp up around 170 if I remember right but the durability suffered. The 38s IMHO are a great boat for cruising or liveaboard, they draft 3'2" have a keel & prop pockets, the Hinos if treated with the right maintenance are pretty bulletproof & economical. The care from previous owners is the most important aspect when looking at any boat whether it's 5 years old 35 years old & never buy one without using a highly qualified surveyor.
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Old 12-14-2013, 07:04 PM   #20
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About a year and a half ago I was determined to buy a trailerable 26 foot SeaRay or equivalent, just to use on the weekends and take it out of the water when not in use. Now, I have decided to "buy my second boat first". I am looking at a 34' Mainship, Marine Trader or any other single diesel semi displacement boat. Along the way, I ruled out the trailerable 26 footer, the 34' express cruiser, the 34 convertible, (almost bought one of those until my surveyor took a cursory look at it! Got my deposit back), Mainship 36 DC (can't find a diesel). I thought a Bayliner 2859 would be great, but I'm not crazy about an outdrive. I thought I settled on a Mainship 34 III, even made an offer but we were $3,000.00 apart so I walked. I've looked at a few Marine Trader 34 Aft cabin but they just seem a little confining to me. I'm pretty sure I've exhausted all my options for a 1980's boat less the 50k with a cockpit and a single engine diesel semi displacement hull. If one comes along, I'm ready, I think. Someone will ask what do I want to do with it? I want to keep it at the marina 5 min. from my office and spend the summer on it and cruise all weekend long and not have to worry about buying huge amounts of fuel. I don't care how fast I go. Being a General Contractor, I want to personalize the interior with finishes and make everything work and look the way it should for not a lot of money. Ironically, I recently looked at Bayliner 3288 on YW but I don't know a lot about Hinos. Looked like a decent boat, but not a lot in my area. Sorry to ramble, but reading everything on this forum and a few others has educated me and steered me in, I believe, the right direction. Who knows what I'll end up buying, anybody have any suggestions? We all have the same "dilemma"! Sent from my iPhone using Trawler
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