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Old 05-02-2017, 09:35 PM   #1
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Different Dinghy Mounting

Still haven't solved my dinghy carrying or mounting problem. What you see in the pic was a passing thought and I think I'll try it. My helm is to stbd and I'd loose much more visability if I put the dink on the port side. Geometry dictates. So w walkways on both sides I can sacrifice one side. Will need to go around to get to the fwd stbd side for mooring to a float. And will need to move the dink to fuel the stbd fill port.

I think I can live w that and we're going to try it out.

Any doom and gloom observations?
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Old 05-02-2017, 10:17 PM   #2
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It will work Eric, but might be a pain at times. Upside down on the coachroof would be better, but probably too heavy to manage that easily. Is attaching a duckboard and keeping it on its side on there like I do out of the question..?
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Old 05-02-2017, 11:03 PM   #3
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The biggest problem is that A-holes like me will make snarky comments to our wives when they see you go by.

I think really good dingy storage/launching is totally under emphasized aspect of boat design. Especially on boats under 35'.

I had this rig fabricated for my last boat, along with extending the overhang on the roof to make room for my dingy. It was pretty sweet. I used a sail boat winch crank it up. It worked sweet with not power required. It was dramatically easier than the way I used to just manhandle it up there. I could winch it up with the 8hp motor on it, and store the whole thing on the roof. (I can't figure out how to rotate the picture)
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Old 05-02-2017, 11:09 PM   #4
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I`d second coach house. My 2.6M inflatable weighs about 30kg, yours looks similar, it should be possible.
Lash it one side of the walk around decks and there will be an urgent and immediate need to walk there.
As to using the swimstep/duckboard, I found that affected vision aft for reverse docking, but that was just after we went onto a marina, might be ok now. Makes a good aft fender too.
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Old 05-02-2017, 11:16 PM   #5
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Peter,
No not out of the question but construction of the duckie board on Willy's rounded bathtub stern would be somewhat challenging, extend the hull length necessitating a bigger slip and monthly moorage bill. Access will be in question also. Haven't got time for that.

Upside down on the roof or right side up it's too dangerous walking around up there. I feel that I would eventially fall off. The dinghy is too close to the beam of the roof giving me not much roof to get about on while manipulating the dinghy around. The anti-skid paint did help though.
I'm going to put a canoe up there and use it for a dink. I can paddle my wide canoe 4 times as fast as I can row that inflatable thing. It's good as a life raft and that's it.
With the rubber duckie stick'in up on the stbd side maneuvering the canoe will be challanging too but I'll have more roof for footing.

No the duckie isn't too heavy to lift up it's just difficult to handle w such scant footing. And if the boat's sinking in rough seas I don't want to get up on the roof to deal w the dink.

Another idea is to carry the duckie on the side of the boat (port) sideways. Willy will be almost 12' wide but that shouldn't cause much trouble. May be able to see over the duckie from inside the cabin. Could cause problems in transient slips.

I'd like a dinghy that we could actually go at least short distances. The canoe seems acceptable down here. It's very stable for a canoe. And it paddles beautifully.

I've already got way too much money in this boat, not enough left or I'm too cheap to do winch crane stuff. I've got just enough energy and money to just go boating. Been not getting around to it lately.
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Old 05-03-2017, 12:51 AM   #6
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Eric,

You do present a challenge. I sympathise with your dilemma as I had to work through similar issues though I have a square stern unlike your canoe shape.
Understanding cost is a consideration in your quest, my suggestion then may be over the budget. I had Svendsen in Wrangell construct a aft canopy of aluminum for the cockpit area. As I have a fly bridge there was an existing ladder which was contained within the scope.
I had a railing added around the edge for safety as the area was open and accessible for storage or physical activity on this new area. Later as the matter of placing a dink came into the thinking, I had the option of using the swim step or this new canopy area. The thinking was like others, use a davit with a trailer winch to lift the dink. However with the railing around, the height of the davit to clear made the appearance really out of place and awkward.Were you to consider this option, the need for a railing may not be a factor allowing for a shorter effective model davit.
I purchased a 7 foot inflatable that weighted in around 40-45# which I could hoist up and over single handed with a home made lanyard that was hooked to the side ropes on the inflatable. I could hoist it up, tip it over and it rode on the rails fore/aft. Looked good, was out of the way and served until the little lady and I in the dink and powered with our 2 hp Honda. I was okay with it, not the little lady, she a bit fearful of the two elephants riding a football factor.
I then purchased our current 10 RIB and mounted it with 'Weaver' mounting kit on the swim step. I extended the receiver ends on the swim step on channel aluminum strips to allow the inflatable to clear my swivel mounted 9.9 hi thrust Yamaha 'Git-a-Home' OB also mounted on the swim step.
Between the two options as it would apply to you, yes, the addition of a aft swim step apparatus which I have seen versions on similar sterns such as yours, would be a cost as would the canopy and additional ladder. Of the two in the long run would be the aft swim step concept. The ones I have seen are quite fitting in appearance and mounting process regarding the bracing under the step. The 'Weaver' mounts on such a step would be within the breath of the step allowing the bow and stern of the dink to over hang East and West yet not be much wider than the beam of your boat.
I have seen canoe stern rigs with the double yardarm apparatus and the dink swinging between them. I find those applications somewhat awkward as there is a bit of machinery in the form of double winches, and associated rigging involved as well not the best of appearance. The whole concept looks overbearing when viewed.
In any case, Eric, keep us advise of your actions
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Old 05-03-2017, 05:26 AM   #7
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We carried our previous roll-up inflatable upside down on the hardtop of our previous (express) boat. Didn't have to get up there; just shoved the whole thing up from the cockpit, let it tilt over of its own weight, and then we shoved it further forward to a decent resting place. Access from the sides let us tie it down; a portable step-stool might have helped reach tie-down bits, for that.

Pros and cons. Stable resting place. Out of the line of sight. Would work for a RIB, assuming ability to shift the extra weight. Took strength. Not fast. Didn't solve anything about the outboard motor. An HPIF (air floor) version would likely have been much easier, given lower weight.

Could have carried right side up, but it looked goofy that way, and gathered too much water before self-draining.

Before that, we also carried it uninflated and in its bag on our first boat. Used a DC camping (mattress) inflater for bulk inflation, then finished with a foot pump to get the right pressure. Worked quickly enough; took only about 10 minutes to debag, inflate, and launch. The roll-up wasn't perfect for that approach, since the slats complicated re-storage. I suspect an HPIF (air floor) model would have been a much better solution at the time, and would have been lighter overall... and/or longer for the same weight. Either way, this was not a bad way to carry the thing, and the bag might stow fairly well on your Willy's foredeck. Assumes you're not needing it as a life raft.

Purpose-built self-inflating lift raft on your coach roof might be an additional idea, although not inexpensive. Still, might leave room for your canoe on one side; can't tell how that'd work with whatever your beam is...

You might experiment with carrying it inflated but "sideways" (horizontal, instead of vertical as in your pic) on one side of your deckhouse... if it'll fit that way. Might be about as much work to stow it inflated as it would be to stow it in the bag, though. In the latter instance, you can put it in a decent place (to work) before inflating, whereas it's an awkward shape/weight when kept inflated.

Just some thoughts...

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Old 05-03-2017, 05:49 AM   #8
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Eric , what about towing that last boat you bought ? Wasn't it 12 ft or so . I thought it was pretty nice . Your boat is way too cool for something like this . Sorry but it's just my honest opinion.

We are having some issues with our davit system right now . Joy said the other day ,"This dinghy thing is a PITA , as little as we use it why don't we just tow the thing "
I'm thinking now I wish I hadn't made any davits at all . I have a wide enough slip that I can float it in with William .
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Old 05-03-2017, 06:22 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad Willy View Post
Peter,
No not out of the question but construction of the duckie board on Willy's rounded bathtub stern would be somewhat challenging, extend the hull length necessitating a bigger slip and monthly moorage bill. Access will be in question also. Haven't got time for that.

Take your point Eric, but certainly can be done. Our Resort 35 had a canoe stern with duckboard. Worked well. See pic.

Upside down on the roof or right side up it's too dangerous walking around up there. I feel that I would eventially fall off. The dinghy is too close to the beam of the roof giving me not much roof to get about on while manipulating the dinghy around....No the duckie isn't too heavy to lift up it's just difficult to handle w such scant footing. And if the boat's sinking in rough seas I don't want to get up on the roof to deal w the dink.

Yes, I never envisaged you trying that. How Ranger 42 below describes the way they did it is what I had in mind.

Another idea is to carry the duckie on the side of the boat (port) sideways. Willy will be almost 12' wide but that shouldn't cause much trouble. May be able to see over the duckie from inside the cabin. Could cause problems in transient slips.

No, No, No...that would be a gross way to carry it, sorry. Just wouldn't look right at all. See Snapdragon III's comment...

I'd like a dinghy that we could actually go at least short distances. The canoe seems acceptable down here. It's very stable for a canoe. And it paddles beautifully.

Sorry again, but a canoe would tend to be a bit too tippy for any older lady to want to get in and out of to go to shore, I suspect.
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We carried our previous roll-up inflatable upside down on the hardtop of our previous (express) boat. Didn't have to get up there; just shoved the whole thing up from the cockpit, let it tilt over of its own weight, and then we shoved it further forward to a decent resting place. Access from the sides let us tie it down; a portable step-stool might have helped reach tie-down bits, for that.

Pros and cons. Stable resting place. Out of the line of sight. Would work for a RIB, assuming ability to shift the extra weight. Took strength. Not fast. Didn't solve anything about the outboard motor. An HPIF (air floor) version would likely have been much easier, given lower weight.

Could have carried right side up, but it looked goofy that way, and gathered too much water before self-draining. Just some thoughts... Chris
For mine, Eric, if you don't go for a duckboard, then upside down, bow forward, tethered down on the cabin top would be the way to go, but only if you and wife could lift it up, as described by Ranger 42, from the safety of the deck, and tethering it by reaching up from the side decks, standing up on something if necessary. The idea of you teetering up on the top trying to move it around gives me the heebie-jeebies though. Clearly not something to do at every anchorage, so towing it behind mostly for short moves, but up on top for longer legs could work..? A nice small light o/b like our Honda 2hp would then be a nice match.
You did ask...
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Old 05-03-2017, 09:18 AM   #10
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How's about a variation of this, the Dinghybat, but instead of the pivot points being on a swim step, they could be on the aft gunwales;

DINGYBAT® SYSTEMS Dinghy Hoist
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Old 05-03-2017, 09:18 AM   #11
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Sell that rubber ducky, you've complained about that thing for years Eric. It rows like crap and destroys the beautiful lines of Willy. We both know life's to short for an ugly boat and there's nothing attractive about rubber boots or boats.

If you want a life raft buy one or look into the possibility of retrofitting the ducky for an auto-inflation if that's even possible. I'm all for practicality but sin ugly is sin ugly. Get that thing off your boat and concentrate on your canoe.
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Old 05-03-2017, 09:28 AM   #12
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Eric, I am not sure how much room you have on the bow, but what about upside down on the bow? The other option is to deflate it on the bow and get a cheap electric dinghy pump to re inflate it for when you will use it?

I sympathies with your dilemma. The other option of course for when you are out cruising is to just tow it like I did with my sailboats. When needed I could hoist it onto the bow with a halyard, but otherwise we would two it. Works well once you make up a two bridle of polypro line.
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Old 05-03-2017, 09:30 AM   #13
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How's about a variation of this, the Dinghybat, but instead of the pivot points being on a swim step, they could be on the aft gunwales;

DINGYBAT® SYSTEMS Dinghy Hoist
That idea makes a lot of sense, particularly if you utilize your dinghy a lot.
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Old 05-03-2017, 09:42 AM   #14
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I'm looking at this pic of your vessel...


and I do not get any good sense about any foredeck stowage location,

so I resort back to the cabin top idea. Perhaps you could have it sit on a cabin top in a manner that would also give you shade to a portion of the aft deck? And perhaps it might be hoisted and lowered from that position via some sort of minimalist, pivoting, a-frame structure mounted to the aft gunnels ?? ...would have to give that more thought

...and you would just leave that A-frame hoist in place while the dinghy was loaded onboard and you were underway, so no climbing up there to tie things down or rig it for launching.
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Old 05-03-2017, 09:44 AM   #15
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In Eric's case a Dinghybat (or variation) would basically be a 'gin pole' set up which transfers the dinghy from the water to an upside down/bow forward position on his roof without using much muscle. Dinghy might be light enough to pull by hand, or use a small trailer winch...
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Old 05-03-2017, 09:47 AM   #16
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...Perhaps you could have it sit on a cabin top in a manner that would also give you shade to a portion of the aft deck? And perhaps it might be hoisted and lowered from that position via some sort of minimalist, pivoting, a-frame structure mounted to the aft gunnels ?? ...would have to give that more thought
5th & 6th pictures down from Allweather Boats... More Pictures
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Old 05-03-2017, 09:55 AM   #17
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Zap Cat dinghy

I would also take a serious look at one of these Zap Cat dinghy's

Catamaran tender to replace rib? - Boat Design Forums

Catamaran tender to replace rib?
Catamaran tender to replace rib? - Boat Design Forums

On the 'lighter side' of things....
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Lets see, I didn't see the OP asking to carry BIG loads

So I think the cat form can certainly give him the stability that many tender owners find important. Even that little Zap cat can give good stability.


Now imagine the 'floor/hull' of the tender is nothing more than a flat plate,...pretty easy to fabricate from say a flat panel of nidacore with a suitable skin on either side.

Then why put somewhat complicated and expensive 'inflatable tubes' at either side?? Why not solid foam tubes similar to the foam collar material utilized on the 'SAFE boats'?

Then couldn't those foam tubes be provided with milled channels that would slide over the special configured ends of the flat panel floor board. Designed properly you might not even have to glue the foam tubes on, but rather secure them in place with 'commercial grade velcro' (interlocking mushrooms).

The size and cross-section of the foam tubes would determine buoyancy ...and load carrying.

If light enough, and inexpensive enough, you might even want to carry 2 such tenders
PS: I'm going to have to get 'inventive' when it comes to carrying a dinghy and some kayaks on a new design gamefishing cat design (38-42) that I am working on.
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Old 05-03-2017, 10:34 AM   #18
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In Eric's case a Dinghybat (or variation) would basically be a 'gin pole' set up which transfers the dinghy from the water to an upside down/bow forward position on his roof without using much muscle. Dinghy might be light enough to pull by hand, or use a small trailer winch...
Not even sure it would have to be upside down, nor bow forward?

I'd be looking for light weight and stable. That cat dinghy could be made very light weight, could be self draining, and could set on its own bottom without any extensive chocks.
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Old 05-03-2017, 10:51 AM   #19
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BTW did you see this little plastic dinghy in those discussions I linked to? (I had forgotten all about it)

Pollycraft Tuff Tender
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Old 05-03-2017, 10:59 AM   #20
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VERY VERY VERY EXCELLENT comments on this very dificult PITA matter.

I think I'll just put it back up where it was. I thought of something last night that I'll probably address today. The fit between the cabin and the rap rail was fairly snug. The duckie will probably require a bit of pulling to get it out and up. Also it was'nt 100% inflated either. Lifting it up from down below may not be easy nor from above. Would need to stand on the very edge of the roof and lift hp and even out a bit. Didn't really think of that.
Peter I've never liked the idea of upside down duckies unless they are straight as viewed from the side. That is w no rocker in the sheer. With the turned up bow upside down lashed down tight would be extremely stressful on the tubes. I've seen them that way but I'm too much of an idealist to do that. I place so little value in the thing I don't know why I care though. Additionally inflating w it upside down would be next to impossible.
We keep in right side up w the drain hole open and the slope of the cabin is just right to completely drain out the rainwater. But then as a life boat one would need to get up on the roof perhaps in rough seas and close the valve or launch it, jump in and close the valve as the dink was sinking. It's not a small drain hole.
The duckboard is out for a number of reasons.

The Dinghybat thing is a good one .. thank you Murray. My take on that would be to install a fairly thick rub rail on the port side below the cap rail and mount the hinge point on top of it. But the tubes (presumably aluminum) may get crushed.

Al,
Great copy on your experiences and your idea of the roof extension and the dink on top of it is excellent but I'd spend the summer building the thing. No.

Dave,
The sailboat thing doesn't transfer at all. No mast .. no halyard. Room yes but couldn't see where I was going. I don't even see how they can deal w it on a sailboat. Short of davits aft there's just no other place. Not my only option though.

Craig,
You've always been direct and I've always loved it. This one was a nail on the head response. Totally right. But the stupid duckie has value as a life boat. None of the others measure up as a lifeboat. Can you imagine getting into a Trinka-like dinghy or most any other hard dinghy in 4' saas w the dink bouncing around and bang'in against the side of the boat? Break an arm, smash my nose and tip the dinghy over too. But one could jump into a duckie w/o injury and the duckie stability would pay off big time.
But you're still right. Thanks.

Also Ranger's idea of pushing it up from the aft deck makes a lot of sense. My cabin top is a bit high for that and it would be a little athletic for us. May be awkward lashing it down w/o getting up on the roof too. But I'll bet that's how most 20-26' OB boats do it. But most have a catwalk and there'd be little or no upreaching.

Marty,
Indeed that's what I'd really like to do. But the Gig Harbor Defiance has a wonderful turned up bottom aft that makes her really easy to drive at low speeds especially when loaded. She has a stern I'd like to see on trawlers.
But as a towed dinghy that stern presents a problem. Remember the "brick wall" that FD hulls are famous for? The FD hulls w the turned up bottoms and the transoms out of the water really do have a "brick wall". Here's the rub. The Defiance has a WLL not even half that of Willy. So at Willy's cruising speed of 6 knots the GH Defiance is way way beyond her hull speed .. and the brick wall. She'd have her bow in the air, stern way down and lots of tension on the painter.
A benefit of the ""brick wall" would be that she would be very reluctant to race down the face of a following sea and get all out of control. I want to try that later though.
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