Which diesel engines

[jclays]

Still doing my homework on my next purchase. Want a 38 to 42 Californian LRC However I am open to other makes. Looking at twins only. Most makes I have looked at have Perkins, Perkins turbo, Leman, Hino, Caterpilar 3208. Heard a little about all. Not sure if the above brands of engines would sway the purchase. They appear to have equal reputations. What say you?

 

[Codger2]

What say you?

In 1995 I bought a used Offshore 48 that had a pair of Perkins in it. I never had a problem with those engines and they ran like a sewing machine. Never skipped a beat.

 

[BruceK]

Having owned a Perkins T6354, and now Lehmans 2715e, both are good. But with Lehmans, check if the Jabsco raw water pumps are replaced with Johnsons from American Diesel, they cost $495 each.

 

[Old deckhand]

I have owned all of them except on Hino. They all performed well and my preference is the Cat 3208.

 

[jclays]

How are the parts availability on these makes?

 

[siestakey]

Parts can be a little tough on the Volvos I have them

I have had Lehman and cat 3208 in the past both great engines

 

[Victor_Chat]

You'll find the Lehmans, Perkins, Detroits and Cats are going to be easy to find parts and people to service them. I'd invest some time in learning the basics on maintaining and doing some basic tune ups. Also keep up the maintenance and run them as often as you can.

 

[FF]

Usually the longest life comes from the simplest engine.

A NA , no turbo, inter cooler etc is the lowest parts count.

If your goal is a speedy boat , you are stuck with a far more complex engine , as well as a grand fuel burn.

 

[jclays]

Thanks for the input. I usually do all my engine work and maintenance. I like being able to find parts. I figured that among the name brands the engines would be similar in reliability and close in performance.

 

[ancora]

VOLVO parts for older engines are hard to find as VOLVO dos not support engines that are no longer in production. If you do fid a part, it will be triple the price of Cat Cummins, etc.

 

[FlyWright]

Keep in mind that FL120s require an oil change in the fuel pump every 50 hours. I don't think the FL135s require this. Ford Lehman owners, is this correct?

 

[Edelweiss]

If you do settle on Perkins, be sure and have an engine survey with special attention to the exhaust manifolds and elbows. For the 6-354's, NA 130's exhaust manifolds and the later "Range series" Engine with Manicoolers, they are custom built by Mesa Marine and are pricey, for the Turbo charged 160 -180's manifolds are available from Barr.

But overall a very good engine with excellent reliability!!


PS: 90% of all Californian's 34' - 42' LRC's were twin engine. I have seen one 42' LRC with no flybridge and a single engine. Also a few Californian commercial fishing boats that were singles, but they're very rare!!

 

[Marin]

Keep in mind that FL120s require an oil change in the fuel pump every 50 hours. I don't think the FL135s require this. Ford Lehman owners, is this correct?

Yes it is.

The injection pump on the FL120 is self-lubed; it has its own lube oil sump. Its the nature of this kind of injection pump (called jerk injection) to gradually wear down the plungers and the walls of the bores they go up and down in. As the wear increases, more and more fuel can leak down past the plungers into the lube oil below. The lube oil only lubes the pump's drive mechanism. The plungers themselves are lubed by the fuel they are sending to the injectors which is why for this type of injection system fuel lubricity is critical.

As the fuel leaks into the lube oul it dilutes the oil and it becomes a less effective lubricant. To ensure the lube oil is always doing the proper job of lubricating the pump's drive mechanism even with a fair anount of leak down and dilution the oil change interval of 50 hours was selected.

The FL135 is also a jerk injection engine. However being a somwhat newer design than the FL120 Ford figured out how to lube the pump's drive mechanism using the engine's lube oil. So leak down still occurs and gets worse with time, but now instead of diluting a half a quart of lube oil it's diluting three gallons or so. So the engine's specified oil change interval is sufficient to deal with it.

The FL120 also has an automotive-type fuel pump that sends fuel to the injection pump. As on an automotive engine, this fuel pump is driven by the camshaft and is lubed by the engine's lube oil.

 

[Gulf Comanche]

I have a Perkins 4-236. Bullet proof so far, and I've given it several chances to bite me in the ass.

 

[Bilgewater]

I also have the Perkins 4-236 and like them. I did lose a main fuel injection pump last year. The engine had 2550 hours, but was 43 years old. I guess it was time. This year, prior to moving aboard and looping, I had the other injection pump overhauled for good measure. The exhaust elbow could be a concern, but replacements can be bought from American Diesel.

 

[markpierce]

Keep in mind that FL120s require an oil change in the fuel pump every 50 hours. I don't think the FL135s require this. Ford Lehman owners, is this correct?

FL120s appear to be high-maintenance engines.

 

[Marin]

Not so much high maintenance, Mark, as more frequent maintenance than newer generation engines. One advantage is that, as naturally aspirated engines, they dont have the potentially expensive maintenance/repair/replacement costs associated with turbochargers.

 

[jclays]

ok looked at 2 trawlers. both Sea Rangers, same size 38's, same layout one with twin Leman 110hp engines the other with twin Volvo Penta 156 hp engines. Things being equal which is the better engine set up?

 

[Marin]

ok looked at 2 trawlers. both Sea Rangers, same size 38's, same layout one with twin Leman 110hp engines the other with twin Volvo Penta 156 hp engines. Things being equal which is the better engine set up?

I'm familiar with Ford Lehman 80, 90, 120, and 135 diesels. A Ford Lehman 110 is a new one to me unless it's a turbocharged version of one of the two four-cylinder models (80, 90 hp).

 

[jclays]

Non turbo probably 120's misprint on the flyer. 1981 only 565 hours apiece on the lemans. Sounds too low. Speaking neighbor boat owners they never see the current owners on the boat.

 

[BruceK]

L120s are venerable proven economical large capacity naturally aspirated understressed old engines, operating at modest rpm. Parts are readily available from American Diesel and others. I think they are a safe choice.And I don`t think you change the injector pump oil every 50 hours, that`s wrong.
I`ve not owned Volvos but many are turbo, I think they operate at higher rpm, some members complained about parts availability, a friend certainly complained about that, and cost, turns out his engine is a Perkins rebranded as Volvo, with Volvo marinizing. Hopefully experienced Volvo owners/aficionados will post to help you.

 

[Marin]

Neglect can be as detrimental to an engine as improper use and care. However, these Jurassic-era diesels can probably stand neglect better than some of the higher-strung, electronic, later-generation engines, I don't know.

Based on my long-ago experience with Volvo Penta engines, I would venture to say they are much better engines than the old Ford of England Dorset diesel (base engine for the FL120). However from what I read from time to time on this forum, parts and support can be very difficult--- to say nothing of expensive--- to obtain on older Volvos, at least in some parts of the world.

Having lived with a pair of very good (so far) FL120s for the last 17 years I would be inclined to go with those engines IF...... they surveyed out well and an oil analysis gave decent results.

Oil analyses are useful primarily as trend indicators. A one-time analysis won't indicate any sort of trend but it can give some clues about the internal health of the engine so it's worth doing if you or a competent engine surveyor knows how to interpret the results.

Don't know anything about the vessel type you're looking at so I have no clue if it does better with 120 hp engines or 156 hp engines. My own opinion is that in boats and planes there is no such thing as too much power unless the Sea Ranger is a displacement boat, in which case there is.

But a greater amount of iffy power may not be as smart a purchase as a lesser amount of reliable power.

 

[Marin]

L120s are venerable proven economical large capacity naturally aspirated understressed old engines, operating at modest rpm....And I don`t think you change the injector pump oil every 50 hours, that`s wrong.

No, that's correct as spelled out in the Ford and Lehman manuals (we have both). The reason has been discussed here in the past so is in the archives, but the 50 hour oil change injector pump oil on the FL120 is a very important service requirement, and it gets even more important as the number of hours on the pump increases and/or the lubricity of the fuel diminishes.

The FL135, which is a different engine (Ford Dover vs the older Ford Dorset) is a sort of "new, improved" version of the Dorset (FL120). By the time this engine came out Ford of England had figured out how to lube the injection pump using the engine's own lube oil. So even though the increasing oil dilution leak-down issue still exists (it's the nature of the beast on these prehistoric, in-line, jerk-injection pumps) the fuel leaking down past the plungers is diluting three gallons of oil, not half a quart. So the FL135 does not have the 50-hour injection pump oil change interval requirement.

The good news is that changing the injection pump oil on an FL120 is a quick and easy process. We've done it in mid-cruise before (not with the engines running, of course), and it's no big deal.

 

[gaston]

The only time I ever hear of Hino's is when they are been replaced

 

[siestakey]

My only larger boat experience is with my Volvos and still working out kinks

have not yet had the part availability problem others speak of but I do think parts are priced higher then the FL

 

[Tom.B]

Things being equal which is the better engine set up?

There is no "equal"... Pick the engines that have had the best maintenance done through the years. If, as you say, they owners have been MIA for a year, I would be awfully weary of that boat... And not JUST for the engines.

See if the seller(s) will allow you to take an oil sample. Take it to your local fleet/heavy equipment shop and have them send it to their lab (here in Raleigh, NC I use the local CAT dealer, Gregory Poole, they have an onsite lab and for $14 they will have it done in one day).

 

[Baker]

And your engine choice also should reflect how you are gonna use the boat. If you are gonna run hard and up on plane, I think the 3208 is the best engine of the bunch. Chug along slowly, then the Lehman. But a 3208NA is an excellent engine for that as well. Perkins I believe to be equal to the Lehman for chugging but they have a tendency to leak oil more so than the Lehman. The only place I have seen a Hino is in Bayliner....and in trucks in Japan. Volvo would be at the bottom of that list for me. I think Volvo makes a perfectly fine engine. Just their support is questionable.

 

[mbmc]

advice on volvo engines? What year would VOLVO not support?

VOLVO parts for older engines are hard to find as VOLVO dos not support engines that are no longer in production. If you do fid a part, it will be triple the price of Cat Cummins, etc.

Hi, I am making an offer on a 1987 42'Nova Sundeck Trawler with twin deisel Volvo engines. I fell in love with the looks of this boat, but am pretty new to all this, so would love your experienced advice on what I'm getting myself into with this engine?
Will be getting a survey, etc this weekend
Thanks!

 

[smitty477]

"The only time I ever hear of Hino's is when they are been replaced"


Its too bad they are not more popular near you., I have had Perkins, Lehmanns, Cummins,Cat,and Navistar diesels but I prefer the Hino to them for a variety of reasons.
Just an all around good engine.

 

[smitty477]

"The only place I have seen a Hino is in Bayliner....and in trucks in Japan. "


As I look out my window now in Long Island NY we are getting a food delivery by a Hino powered reefer truck. Across the street you can often see two Hino powered flatbeds that are the most used by a towing outfit that operates there. Across the street in the other direction the Deli and Liquor stores often get deliveries by trucks powered by Hino's. Fairly common and well regarded on trucking sites where they discuss mid sized straight trucks or every kind.