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Old 11-22-2016, 06:59 AM   #21
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check battery negative side connector on engine. Sometimes corrosion avoid a good contact and it's same simptom.
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Old 11-22-2016, 07:02 AM   #22
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I think I found it.

I checked all the cable connections a while ago. All the starter and battery system cables on this boat are in about the condition you would expect for a 1975 vintage trawler, one of many items on the list.

Everything worked fine this morning, of course, since we are about to dock at the yard and meet the mechanic, but I decided to check every connection again anyway. The two batteries have wingnut adapters. The wingnuts were tight. I then wiggled the red cable on the starboard battery and it was slightly loose. I gave the wingnut another hard turn and there was a pop and it went down another turn. I loosened it up and tried turning over the engine with throttle pulled all the way back. I didn't want to start it but just see if it turned over. It started and stuttered to life at the first cylinder going through the power stroke. This old engine really wants to run.

I shut down and removed the cable entirely. That perfectly reproduced the problem. I replaced the cable, tightened everything up again, and all seems fine.

We're going into the yard anyway because it's time for new zincs and Cutless check. We've also had a shaft knock over 1500 rpm (our normal cruising speed) ever since hitting something hard in the Erie Canal. Ross Marine here on the Sono River has the tool to remove the Cutlass bearings without pulling the shaft and are highly regarded according to Active Captain so it's time.

Now, who gets the Tee shirt?
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Old 11-22-2016, 07:05 AM   #23
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Greetings,
Mr. RL. Not me. Not interested. Thanks anyway.
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Old 11-22-2016, 07:09 AM   #24
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Good going.

.Didn't see the mention of getting rid of the wingnuts.....they are usually problematic in the long run.
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Old 11-22-2016, 07:58 AM   #25
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Quote:
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Didn't see the mention of getting rid of the wingnuts.....they are usually problematic in the long run.
That's was already on the list, the long list.

The engines will start on both batteries or on one but not the other so there are still some issues to track down but running the boat until I can get to it doesn't seem to be an issue.
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Old 11-22-2016, 08:18 AM   #26
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A common weak spot of several models of Perkins, Cat and Perkins Sabres are the engine mounted fuse blocks. The fuses provide protection for the relays and wiring associated with neutral switch, intake heating, stop switch solenoid and other "safety" specific starting sequence devices if so equipped.

A non turnover engine (mine at times) that shows no battery weakness and good voltage at the starter may suffer from this little known issue. The remedy - pull the spade fuses and clean them as nearly invisible surface corrosion has set in. The problem is exacerbated by an older battery that may show up OK on meter but doesn't deliver enough juice to pass through the fuse and open/close the relay so the engine will start.

Trust me, I know, few "smart" mechanics will know of this issue. In fact some really smart ones deny it is possible until shown. The guy that helped me on this a few years ago was a back water jack of all trades mechanic out of Shearwater who barges fuel and supplies all around the central BC Coast while helping idiots like me..

Ya never know ---
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Old 11-22-2016, 10:51 AM   #27
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I've got the same Perkins twins. And a tendency toward the same reluctance of the starboard to start. And the same lack of resolution.

I'm in to the 5th week of recovery and rehab from the installation of a new shoulder, so nothing will happen on my part until spring.

My troubleshooting will go as has been offered above: Understand the wiring and battery switches; there's no excuse for a slow crank when you've got the other engine running fine. Make sure you've switched the batts correctly.

If it cranks at all then the starter solenoid itself works. If it cranks at all then the starter motor is OK - well, I just looked at the manual for trouble-shooting and it gives a bad starter motor as a cause for slow cranking but I then read the manual for the two kinds of starters and it said 'bad electrical connections'(!). Bad connections include all the high-amperage wiring and the motor brushes.

Just because there is adequate battery voltage at rest does not mean that the battery supplies adequate voltage under load; are the batteries OK? Obviously some are, since one of the engines starts.

Check all the high-amperage connections. Tight? Dirty? Corroded at the connection? Corroded inside the insulation? Grounding? Ground connection betw engine and batt? Connections within the batt itself? Your description suggests that the connections in question are those that are specific to that engine, that is, those that don't change when you operate the battery switches.

Good luck! Your solution/diagnosis may help me next spring!
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Old 11-22-2016, 11:03 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Long View Post
That's was already on the list, the long list.

The engines will start on both batteries or on one but not the other so there are still some issues to track down but running the boat until I can get to it doesn't seem to be an issue.
At least changing out the wingnuts for a standard nut and lock washer are an easy, cheap, and quick fix.
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Old 11-22-2016, 11:04 AM   #29
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Ive had similar strange behavior caused by starter problems. Possibly a dead spot on starter commutator or loose connection. Anticipate starter may fail compleely at an inconvient time. Easy enough to pull it and rebuild. I carry a spare.
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Old 11-22-2016, 01:50 PM   #30
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Military style terminals are what I use if you have to connect battery cables with ring terminal ends on them to the batteries.

Fastronix Electrical- Battery Cables and Connectors
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Old 11-22-2016, 02:36 PM   #31
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A good times to support the NYT, and pay for an on line subscription - for those so inclined.
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Old 11-22-2016, 04:27 PM   #32
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Wifey B: Gremlins...oh those little suckers get in and do all kinds of things while you're asleep, then can't be seen. Others get blamed like when Gremlins get into computers, bugs get blamed. No one knows about the Gremlins. A lot of times mechanics get blamed for not fixing things, but they couldn't as the Gremlins are still there.
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