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Old 11-29-2012, 08:41 PM   #1
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Designing a new Coastal Cruiser

Hello all, I realize I my request may be a little different but I thought this would be the best place to start. I have been boating all my life and have been lucky to own more boats than I should have in a life time. Out last two boats were new Nordhavn 40' (2005 and 2007) which we live aboard part time (M-F) in San Diego for five years. As much as we love our Nordhavn we are done going slow at least for awhile and have been searching for a quality built coastal cruiser we can use for weekend trips. An average trip for us is 60 miles of open ocean between ports. We spoke with Nordhavn about building something similiar to thier 35 Semi-displacement but they are not interested. I took a hard look at building a Downeast but determined I could not get what I wanted. I went back and looked at just about every single engine production built boat and still could not find the perfect boat. I came close but determined that what I want is just not available today. The builder of the boat that came close to meeting our requirements was interested in our vision of the perfect simple (attempt to minimize systems) coastal cruiser and we have begun discussions to design and build a high quality, strong, single engine diesel vessel in the 36' - 39' range usig an existing proven hull with a beam between 13' - 14'. Needless to say this an exciting and stressful journey but one that I feel I'm prepared to make.


Since opportunities like this only come around once in life I and for most of us we never have the opportunity to really provide input on the next boat builders market, I thought I would attempt to open up this project with others and ask them "what would your perfect coastal cruiser boat look like and how would it be equiped'? Another way to approach this could be to ask what are your top five "Must Have Items" on your perfect coastal cruiser. For those who would like to provide feedback I will consolidate all inputs and post a summary within 4-6 weeks. Thank you in advance for any inputs.

John
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Old 11-29-2012, 09:06 PM   #2
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John, did you check this one out?

Performance Power Boat tour and video; the Back Cove 37
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Old 11-29-2012, 09:31 PM   #3
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You wrote;

"looked at just about every single engine production built boat"

Only single engine?

If your other criteria for choice is so narrow it's no wonder you're having trouble finding what you want.
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Old 11-29-2012, 10:11 PM   #4
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Yes I looked at Back Cove and Sabre. What I discovered was that I had to choose a boat configuration "as built" little to no opportunity to make significant changes. While Back Cove offered single engines, Sabre liked twins which ruled them out. Nice finishes on the Sabre.

The decision to go with one engine supports our desire to simplify the boat and keep it economical to operate. Our desired cruise speed is 9-12kts. Top end 14 knots. Matching the engine to the hull is being performed by the experts.
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Old 11-29-2012, 10:48 PM   #5
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Matching the engine to the hull is being performed by the experts.
Marketing experts maybe...
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Old 11-29-2012, 11:28 PM   #6
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engine selection

No marketing guys involved. I'm fortunate to have access to one of the most respected engine manufacturing engineers who is assisting with matching the hull / engine to our desired operational speeds. We do not plan to follow most builders who install large engines so they can offer higher top end speeds (for marketing purposes) when they know most owners will end up cruising at speeds much lower than the diesel engine was designed and unknowingly be damaging thier engines. Again we plan to build the boat to match our planned usage, not to impress anyone. thanks for the comments.
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Old 11-30-2012, 12:09 AM   #7
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"what would your perfect coastal cruiser boat look like and how would it be equiped'? Another way to approach this could be to ask what are your top five "Must Have Items" on your perfect coastal cruiser.
For a new build in that size range.

Picnic cruiser styling with removable divider between cockpit and lounge. Just enough exterior wood to accent the natural beauty of a flowing hull/cabin design(no sharp angles). A dink that doesn't look and store like an afterthought.

1. Single diesel with cruising generator and inverter
2. Minimal navigation electronics/toys
3. "Fishable" but not a fishing cockpit with door
4. Minimalist yet functional interior and galley
5. Maximum use of low voltage electronics/lighting
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Old 11-30-2012, 12:10 AM   #8
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The Zimmerman 38 looks pretty cool and seems well thought out by some pretty bright guys . The Oct 2012 PMM has story on it. If you can top that one with your one of a kind ( and have resale) you have done a heck of a job. I'd guess your engine expert knows that today's common rail engines can be run slow providing marvelous fuel economy while still allowing the oomph for the times you care to go 20 knots.
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Old 11-30-2012, 12:35 AM   #9
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You might talk to Don Ellis at Ellis Boat Works. They build semi custom boats. You choose one of their hulls and cabin tops. Then they will customize the interior for you. Their standard layouts are pretty good, but if you're willing to spend the money, they will build you the boat you want. Here is a link: Ellis Boat Company - Boat Building History & Heritage
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Old 11-30-2012, 01:07 AM   #10
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The smallest Tad Roberts 'Passagemaker Lite' ticks off a few of your requirements;

Passagemaker Lite 39 - Tad Roberts' fast, seaworthy, fuel-efficient long-range passagemaker

This may not be what you're looking for, but just like when focusing a camera you have to over and under focus a few times to get things tack sharp.
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Old 11-30-2012, 06:35 AM   #11
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Have you checked out the Campbell Boat Yards?

Campbell's Boatyards and Custom Yachts

or Lee S. Wilbur?

Wilbur Yachts - Home
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Old 11-30-2012, 07:09 AM   #12
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Here's a review of Tad Roberts Passagemaker Lite series in PDF;

http://www.tadroberts.ca/about/pdf/a...maker-lite.pdf
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Old 11-30-2012, 07:10 AM   #13
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I am in love with the concept of a transom that would have the ability to fold out and go flat , like on any pick up truck.

We prefer a grand sized aft cockpit and with the unit flat the view and water acces would be superb.

In addition as a boarding spot the rear access would be large enough to simply drive the dink up the ramp for inshore coastal passages.

With a bit of effort the dink could also be operated as get home emergency power , or perhaps as a stern thruster.

IF I were building another custom boat, the hull would be a single screw Atkin box keel , reverse deadrise style in the Seabright tradition,and the boat would be beachable .

Superbly seaworthy and very efficient , and if needed the boat can be transported flat on a big trailer , or loaded on a oversized shipping flat for ocean transport at the lowest cost.

Lift rings for crane loading would be operable weather the boat was aluminum or a cored foam build.

The engine would be fitted with a CPP ,

IF built light and slender 12K on 2GPH or 18 on just under 4GPH would not be hard.

Air cond , RV rooftop unit,

Heat Dickinson ,Antarctic

Refrigeration, Propane Servelle from Amish country.

Noisemaker varible speed Yannmar/Kubota hooked to 24V 300A bus alt with inverter for AC power ,AGM batts to make noisemaker use an hour every 5 days., when not air cond.

All aux power would be HYD from main or noisemaker , windlass bow thruster.

Cruise 2 , overnight 4 (2 in pilot house bunk) seat to feed 8.
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Old 11-30-2012, 07:26 AM   #14
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These craft built for the Aussie market, but presumably for elsewhere as well, come close to your criteria.....
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Old 11-30-2012, 08:41 AM   #15
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Quote:
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Another way to approach this could be to ask what are your top five "Must Have Items" on your perfect coastal cruiser. For those who would like to provide feedback I will consolidate all inputs and post a summary within 4-6 weeks. Thank you in advance for any inputs.

John

Reliable climate control for area that you are cruising
(you have to feel comfortable while on-board)

Docking capability's , using a powerful bow thruster, and possibly a stern thruster
(you don't want to look like a fool while docking)

Tender considerations and launch capability if you spend any time on the hook
(A good davit system is critical )

Interior layout to make the best use of space ,including the size % of the back deck,which is wasted space to most people unless they fish
(Your wife will make those decisions)

Keeping the whole boat low maintenance
(The Nordhavn you are used to is an example of a very low maintance boat )
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Old 11-30-2012, 12:34 PM   #16
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FRED,

I enjoyed your romp through your dreamboat and agree that would be a really great boat. I'll bet you could even sell such a boat.

However "superbly seaworthy" it may be I'll bet big head seas would give it a pounding and ballast for that seaworthyness may put a dent in the efficiency.

But the overall idea is really exciting.
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Old 11-30-2012, 03:09 PM   #17
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The description of the boats you are looking sounds like an express model, some what light, semi displacement, shallow draft, and a narrow beam, with above hull speeds, low HP sized engine. But there in lays the rub? So I am still stuck on the hull, engine running gear and super structure. It would seem the boats structure would be light with 14 ft narrow beam so itís semi displace and can go over hull speed, which may also require higher HP.

It sounds like you are looking for an older design hull as the hulls where longer and narrower. Since its one off unless you can find an existing mold would be a metal fabricated hull and to make light aluminum. The stern would round and/or like a commercial trawler so the following waves pass around and under the stern. May be a cross between Eric and FF boats comes to mind as an example with modifications. I would look at commercial mfg rather than pleasure.

There are really only two straight line engines, John Deer and Cummins. John Deer is the most popular as Deer has made special price adjustment for multiple engine. What ever the engine I would prefer it natural, with minim electronic control/gauges. . Since Deer seems to be the most popular I would probable go with Deer. Then of course you have the size the running gear to the hull and engine?

For a 40 ft boat the hulls speed is 6 to 8 knots, 100 hp, but to go over hull speed requires more HP, 200 HP and/or wide beam to get the boat up out of the water. The rest of the boat is not as complex as you can buy bundle/multi function electronics for a reasonable price. Furuno would be my choice. Since it going to be custom built the interior can be what you want. However, the hull, superstructure, engine, HP, running gear and tanks are the center/heart of the boat and not easily changed.
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Old 11-30-2012, 03:37 PM   #18
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Don't need wide beam for 12 to 16knots. In fact narrow is good. More beam = = more power and stiffer hull motion ... Uncomfortable.

I'd go for twin screw turbo as most desired but any good propulsion system is good. Also one does NOT need the most popular engine brands. There are lots and lots of excellent engines that aren't buzz words in the Nordhavn crowd. Think w your head instead of that thing out back. Some people let other people think for them and others think for themselves. If you're real dumb then others doing the thinking is real smart.

Even though I'm not generally keen on Lobster types the Krogen Express sure looks good to me. However I think the advantages of the Lobster hulls are centered around short steep seas and not open ocean stuff. I think a boat w a wider chine fwd would handle big ocean waves better.
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Old 11-30-2012, 07:28 PM   #19
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Quote:
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These craft built for the Aussie market, but presumably for elsewhere as well, come close to your criteria.....
INTEGRITY 380

380 Sedan *- Integrity Motor Yachts
Neat new boat. Integrity is developing a good range.
Peter,please check the "Columbia River Bar" thread, (? really NZ). You may be able to help.
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Old 11-30-2012, 07:34 PM   #20
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Integrity trawlers? Can you say "Island Gypsy".
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