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Old 12-02-2012, 06:29 PM   #41
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The old Thunderbird 26ft cruiser/racer had similar beam dimensions , so a comfortable but hardly impressive interior is easy.
Someone else remembers the Thunderbird sailboat! They were raced in OZ, most built with plywood hulls so not many around now. ? USA designed?
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N4061 has a special position most of us would envy, starting with a near blank page on designing/choosing his boat. Let`s hope we help rather than confuse.
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Old 12-03-2012, 12:39 AM   #42
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Thanks Tad, That's kind of what I thought. I was thinking a sail about the size an Opti uses mounted right at the transom with the boom sticking out aft. The sail probably wouldn't even begin to see the wind until the boat is ten or fifteen degrees off the wind.

It's great to have you here. Thanks!
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Old 12-03-2012, 09:53 AM   #43
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If I was building a new boat I'd want to have a serious talk with Sam Devlin. He's a very accomplished designer & builder with a great eye for attractive boats. I met him once & was able to get a good look at one of his boats. Very personable guy & the fit & finish of the boat was just amazing. Devlin Designing Boat Builders
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Old 12-03-2012, 11:51 AM   #44
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I like one of Devlin's boats and I think it's about 44', full disp and powered by a 4 cyl JD.

I met the man too .. briefly.
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Old 12-03-2012, 01:25 PM   #45
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Sorry I might be a little late as most week ends I do not reply!

I would prefer that the boat was stable and had a comfortable ride with out stabilizers. if stabilizers were required I would have passive rather than active stabilization. Passive, they do not have to activated and/or they do not move as they are part of the boat, ballast, bilge keels, rolling chalks, keel plates and steadying sail. I would not have active, paravanes and fin., if passive fit the requirement. I am not sure what the new gyro is? I would say more active than passive since they require electricity. If any body is interested I have a packet of stabilization, if you send me your email address.

The Eagle came with a steadying sail, being newbies we tried to sail with it. Needless to say it did not work, and when out and about did not make a noticeable difference. We did use it at anchor once, and it did reduce the swing. The Eagle mast is 2/3 back and the sail is 14 ft X 12 ft, so it acts like a vane. So we would probable only use it when anchoring. I read some place that boats with house/helm close to the bow tend to swing more than the boats with the house further back. Again many of the older long range boats pre 1980, where long and narrow with the house helm back toward the stern. Also the ride is nicer back in the stern than forward in the bow.

The Eagle is stabile as its been up down the pacific coast several time with out stylization. However, being full displacement and round hull she does tend to roll, but the roll is a comfortable roll of 6 seconds. However, I plan on installing bilge/twin keels to reduce the roll but more important to prevent the Eagle from rolling over when grounded. I have grounded the Eagle twice, once on purpose. Being we are planning on heading north to Alaska/BC where the tide swings a 15+ ft and many of the small marinas have tide grids.

As for actual sails some trawler mfg off sails as an option to reduce fuel consumption and increase the range. There is a sister RW 58 trawler converted to a motor sailor as they where planning on going down the East coast to the Canal and up the West coast. the got in a marriage dispute and the last I heard the boat was in Panama? So large actual sail can help. Oh the RW 58 came with a forward sail, so the footing and the stays is still in place.



I tend to believe the old master marine engineers had it more right than the present as they were dealing with low HP engines, and using the length of the boat to maximize speed. Hull speed is the square root of the length, and a narrow boat tend to take less HP.
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Old 12-03-2012, 06:19 PM   #46
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I'm confused how you can call a steadying sail passive. You still need to deploy and manage it right? I don't see how it fits in the list of your truly passive methods. My active fins may cost me speed but I do get to be "passive" while the computer does the work!

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Old 12-03-2012, 08:32 PM   #47
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Integrity 380 Sedan

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Here is a photo of the first Integrity 380 Sedan I took last week here on Pittwater in Sydney.
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Old 12-03-2012, 08:57 PM   #48
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Hi Lee,Thanks for the pic and welcome aboard. AndyG, who has an IG36 kept at Newport, will be excited with a new member at Pittwater. The Integrity hull looks very Island Gypsy.
Did you go on board, if so can you tell us more?
Photo looks like it was taken at the Basin midweek.
If you already have a boat, can you tell us about that too?
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Old 12-03-2012, 09:13 PM   #49
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Hi Bruce,

I'm a yacht broker who saw the new Integrity Motor Yachts at the Sanctuary Cove Boat Show and was so impressed that my business Performance Boating Sales have now taken on the agency for NSW. We have been waiting for the first 380 for some time and I can tell you that it has genuinely exceeded our expectations in every way. Your welcome to come and have a look and give us your opinion as an experienced Trawler owner. We are at Gibson Marina.

I'm looking forward to Christmas holidays onboard!
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:38 PM   #50
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I'd second the idea that a trip to Maine and Nova Scotia would serve you well. Not to mention it is fun. I recall a lot of pleasure boats fitting your general description as we made our way through the Maritimes. The boats up there are designed for conditions not unlike the coastal Pacific. Start here:

Nova Scotia Boatbuilders Association

Paravanes, steadying sails on a 39' planing boat is starting to sound pretty kludgy and diminishes outside space and ability to get around the boat, but if those things and resale value mean nothing well... People have been cruising and fishing the Pacific Coast. or the maritimes for that matter, in mid size powerboats for 100 years. Like someone said, the wheel has already been invented, but if the journey of inventing and building a new kind of boat is really your destination, then by all means have at it!
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Old 07-23-2013, 12:02 PM   #51
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Pilgrim 40 canal trawler

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I took a hard look at building a Downeast but determined I could not get what I wanted. I went back and looked at just about every single engine production built boat and still could not find the perfect boat. I came close but determined that what I want is just not available today. The builder of the boat that came close to meeting our requirements was interested in our vision of the perfect simple (attempt to minimize systems) coastal cruiser and we have begun discussions to design and build a high quality, strong, single engine diesel vessel in the 36' - 39' range usig an existing proven hull with a beam between 13' - 14'. Needless to say this an exciting and stressful journey but one that I feel I'm prepared to make.

Since opportunities like this only come around once in life I and for most of us we never have the opportunity to really provide input on the next boat builders market, I thought I would attempt to open up this project with others and ask them "what would your perfect coastal cruiser boat look like and how would it be equiped'? Another way to approach this could be to ask what are your top five "Must Have Items" on your perfect coastal cruiser. For those who would like to provide feedback I will consolidate all inputs and post a summary within 4-6 weeks. Thank you in advance for any inputs.
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.... Nothing helped the pitching and the active fin stab's while on did nothing to comfort us even when we changed course slightly so not to take the waves directly on the nose. The only that would have helped would have been a much larger boat with a a longer waterline. So in summary our desire is for a simplier boat, less expensive to build and operate while still providing the quality and comfort we have become use to and which may be attractive to others looking for the same. I feel there is a need for this type of boat and the marketplace has not yet offered it. In the end I could be wrong but at least I'm enjoying this project and will have a boat the way I want it next year. Thanks for your question.
I just ran across this subject thread, and the title was MOST interesting. I read thru several times, and I do realize that some of what the OP is looking for is not offered in the original Pilgrim 40 design. But I would like to ask him if he looked at this vessel design at all, and what his thoughts on it would be (since he did say he reviewed just about every single engined vessel in this size range)

So here are a few photos and postings concerning a P-40 that were posted recently:
http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s3/ultimate-trawler-9123-8.html

....and one attached photo...
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Old 07-23-2013, 12:16 PM   #52
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STEEL HULLS with Composite Superstructure / Topsides

Now to toss in a curve ball....

STEEL HULLS with Composite Superstructure / Topsides

There are any number of notable ship constructions where a lighter-weight superstructure has been sought out for a basic metal hull. Alum topsides over a steel hull comes to mind for a number of larger yachts and navy vessels. Creative bonding techniques have had to be invented for these cases. Likewise the joining of composite superstructures onto steel hulls requires creative thinking about both the mechanical and the 'chemical' bonding of these two very different materials.

I use the word 'chemical' in the sense of adhesion. There are any number of mechanical methods of bonding that are conventional in manner. It's the adhesive bonding that is continuously under development with ever-stronger, greater adhesion products. I think we are currently at a point that we have a number of very good adhesive products that can join our composite superstructures to our steel hulls with extreme confidence.

My thoughts are this 'transition' from steel to composite should take place at the hull-to-deck interface, NOT at the deck to cabin superstructure joint. In other words I favor a composite deck, ...more specifically a sandwich-cored composite deck onto which the rest of the cabin/superstructure is attached.

I've witnessed years and years of sandwich cored composite constructions. Basically it boils down to using 3 types of cores; 1) balsa, 2) various foams, and 3) honeycombs of either alum, Nomex, or polypropylene. Generally the balsa cores have won out over the foams for deck fabrications due to their greater stability under the extremes of tropical heating. But balsa cores have a significant history of susceptibility to rot from water penetration at various hardware attachments and migration of water along the core-to-skin bond line.

Alum & Nomex honeycombs are a little pricey, and extra care must be exercised to obtain a good bond with the very 'thin edges' of the honeycomb chambers. Polypropylene honeycomb however has a fiberglass cloth scrim thermo-fused to its cell structure,...a very consistent bonding that doesn't provide voids for water to migrate across. This 'scrim layer' in turn provides a 100% bonding surface for the fiberglass skins to be applied to. And the polypropylene material itself is totally rot proof in the case of any water penetration.

I've come to the conclusion that this 'poly-core' material is the best choice for my composite decks and superstructures. Poly-core is one name the Aussi's and NZ boat builders term it. They actually pre-fab sheet panels (akin to sheets of plywood) of these materials in a controlled environment, and subsequently computer cut those sheets into specific panels that will be joined together to form a structure, a bulkhead, a deck section, a cabin side, etc.,
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Old 07-23-2013, 01:31 PM   #53
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Brian, Is poly-core conducive to home built construction?

I'm preparing to start construction on a Jeff Spira design center console that will be ply on frame construction with 2 layers of fiberglass cloth on the outer hull surface. It is serving as a test platform for a possible 32 - 38' yet to be determined pilot house design in the future.
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Old 07-23-2013, 02:14 PM   #54
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Kelsall KSS method & PP Honeycomb

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Brian, Is poly-core conducive to home built construction?
Yes, but I believe I would confine its use to the 'upper structures' rather than the hull itself. Even though it has proven itself to be quite effective against water penetration and migration, I still would keep it out of structures below the waterline. After all it is a 'hollow' cell structure that ultimately could fill with water.

There is a fellow, Derek Kelsall, who has been involved with designing and building multihull vessels for a LONG time. He has developed a building method he calls KSS. He builds flat panels on a horizontal table, then cuts them to desired shapes and bends them to the desired shape. Almost exclusively he recommends foam cores. I might suggest you look thru his web presentations....and videos.
Catamarans - Kelsall Catamarans - Boat Designs

http://www.kelsall.com/UniqueKSS/WhatIsKSS.pdf

I am not totally convinced that foam core is the only way to go. The more I study PP honeycomb cores the more I find something to like. Up until somewhat recently there were questions raised about using PP honeycombs with resin infusion panel building (don't let that 'resin infusion' scare you off till you look at it on Derek's site). Here is a PP honeycomb that is specifically prepared for use resin infusion production.
Plascore

(for some reason I am having trouble linking this site right this moment??)
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Old 07-23-2013, 04:27 PM   #55
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(for some reason I am having trouble linking this site right this moment??)
Must be an issue on your end or the linked site itself as you're posts are no longer redirected for approval.

Thank you for the links provided. I'm married to marine ply for this build but would like to study poly for the future pilot house.
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Old 07-23-2013, 05:25 PM   #56
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Craig,
What Spira boat are you la inning now? Seems to me you were looking at a small practice type of build.

I'm still looking and thinking about the 24' Key Largo.
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Old 07-23-2013, 06:01 PM   #57
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http://www.spirainternational.com/hp_cham.php

This is the practice boat we should be starting in two weeks. I'm all over the place like a kid in a candy store for the center console though. Think I've purchased 6 or 7 sets of plans for that one, frankly not sure which I'll go with yet.
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Old 07-23-2013, 09:26 PM   #58
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Resin Infusion Plascore

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(for some reason I am having trouble linking this site right this moment??)
No, I think it was their site/sever that was having a problem eariler today, as I had no problems this evening.

Here are those links:
Thermoplastic Honeycomb ? PC2 Polycarbonate ? PP Polypropelene ? Infusion Grade PP

...over on the right hand side of that page, you'll fine the 'resin infusion grade' pp core
Infusion Grade PP Honeycomb - PP Honeycomb

...they will even do 'kit-cuts' if one puts it together on a computer file.
http://www.plascore.com/custom-honey...ore-pieces.php
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Old 07-24-2013, 06:41 AM   #59
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Attachment 14464

Here is a photo of the first Integrity 380 Sedan I took last week here on Pittwater in Sydney.
I also gave the 380 the fine tooth comb treatment at the Sanctuary Cove Boat Show, and I love it. Hendo is using the concept for his boat rebuild project for the same reason. If I was to win lotto now...
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