Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 10-02-2015, 01:38 PM   #1
Guru
 
Hawgwash's Avatar
 
City: Sidney
Country: Canada
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,265
Is this a decent DC setup?

Thinking in terms of lots of anchor time does this look pretty good?
42 GB, twin Lehmans, if it matters.

GENERATOR
8.5 KW Onan
5 KW Engine driven alternator

BATTERIES

House bank 12 X 6V Golf cart
Engine start 12V - D8
Gen. start 12V - HD Truck batt.

ELECTRICAL

Inverter/charger 2500A Trace

BATTERY CHARGER
Xantrex TC 40+ 110V
Is this outdated?
__________________
Advertisement

Hawgwash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2015, 01:52 PM   #2
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,530
"House bank 12 X 6V Golf cart"

Although a lot of beer might be needed to move them , using larger batts , rather than a dozen would be more efficient.

No more than 4 batts to a string works best if you keep with golf carts.

A single Ser: 31 will start a Ford in cold weather , lots lighter than an 8D.

Look at Surette for some batts made up of 2V cells bolted together.

This will eat the output of a DN-50) bus alternator 250-300A in 12v or 24V

The inverter needs to be of the boost style that can add current to a weak dock or noisemaker output.

That would allow a smaller noisemaker , that could be run closer to full load more of the time..


And first item to purchase would be a SOC , state of charge meter, so you know where the batt set is in terms of charge percentage at all times.

There are many other brands ,,,but these are good for the House set..

For Start batts , Sears or any chain store is fine as they are easy to kill, and a guarentee swop might be required.

  1. Rolls Surrette Batteries

    www.dcbattery.com/rolls.htmlCached

    Rolls Surrette batteries stocking warehouse distributor for wholesale domestic and export batteries in Miami, FL. Free quotes and fast Rolls Surrette batteries shipping.
__________________

FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2015, 01:53 PM   #3
Guru
 
Alaskan Sea-Duction's Avatar
 
City: Inside Passage Summer/Columbia River Winter
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Alaskan Sea-Duction
Vessel Model: 1988 M/Y Camargue YachtFisher
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,152
You could stay on the hook for as long as you have fuel! Looks good to me. The only thing I would check would be the age of the batteries and have your surveyor verify everything works.
__________________
1988 M/Y Camargue Yacht Fisher
Alaskan Sea-Duction
MMSI: 338131469
Blog: http://alaskanseaduction.blogspot.com/
Alaskan Sea-Duction is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2015, 02:04 PM   #4
Guru
 
Hawgwash's Avatar
 
City: Sidney
Country: Canada
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,265
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskan Sea-Duction View Post
You could stay on the hook for as long as you have fuel! Looks good to me. The only thing I would check would be the age of the batteries and have your surveyor verify everything works.
They say "3 days on the hook without running Gennie" and if true, converting lighting to led should add more time, right?
Hawgwash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2015, 02:14 PM   #5
Guru
 
djmarchand's Avatar
 
City: East Greenwich, RI
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Bella
Vessel Model: Mainship Pilot 34
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,881
You have the basics of a good system. I assume that the 5kw alternator is AC. That will easily run the inverter/charger (100 amps?) and the 40 amp charger while underway.

I would add the following to make it better:

1. An ACR or battery combiner to automatically tie the house and starting batteries together for simultaneous charging.

2. A battery monitor such as a Xantrex, Mastervolt, etc to keep an eye on things.

David
djmarchand is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2015, 02:23 PM   #6
Guru
 
ranger42c's Avatar
 
City: Maryland
Country: USA
Vessel Model: 42' Sportfish
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,159
Lots o' house batts. I'd guess that's around 1320 Ah or so at 12V? If the inverter/charger is on that bank, seems sufficient...


The engine start batteries probably don't need to be that big. A single G31 with decent CCA rating for each engine oughta work for each. Wouldn't switch for not other reason, just thinking ahead to eventual replacement. And weight (your back).


Ditto then genset starter; a G34 should work fine.


A parallel switch on start batteries is sometimes useful. But I think I'd assume the genset will power the Xantrex charger (40 amps?) and that it would be sufficient. Wouldn't change that charger until it craps out, either... outdated or not.


Assuming wet batteries, a watering system would probably be useful.


-Chris
__________________
South River, Chesapeake Bay
ranger42c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2015, 02:29 PM   #7
Guru
 
hmason's Avatar
 
City: Westport, CT
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Magic
Vessel Model: Grand Banks 46 Europa
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,904
Our 8 KW Onan had a 4D start battery. When it died I installed a sealed no maintenance Group 24. Starts right up for 2 years now. Its a true throwaway battery.

Howard
__________________
Howard
Magic, 1996 Grand Banks Europa
Westport, CT and Stuart, FL
hmason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2015, 03:26 PM   #8
Guru
 
caltexflanc's Avatar
 
City: North Carolina for now
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Small Incentive
Vessel Model: Boston Whaler 130 Sport
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,801
Have you calculated what all the loads are and what your usage of said loads will be?

That Trace is getting on in years, and is a modified sinewave unit, FYI.
__________________
George

"There's the Right Way, the Wrong Way, and what some guy says he's gotten away with"
caltexflanc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2015, 03:35 PM   #9
Guru
 
Capt.Bill11's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,422
I agree there is no need for a 4 or 8 D battery to start a Genset. In fact you don't need an 8D to start a Lehman.

I also agree you should consider replacing the Trace with something newer like a Magnum.
Capt.Bill11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2015, 04:20 PM   #10
Guru
 
City: gulf coast
Country: pinellas
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,199
Assuming the is a new to you boat I agree smaller batts for engine and genny start should be fine but unless the current stuff needs changing why spend the money now?. Try it and keep track of battery condition each day and see how it fits your life style.
bayview is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2015, 04:37 PM   #11
Guru
 
Hawgwash's Avatar
 
City: Sidney
Country: Canada
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,265
Quote:
Originally Posted by bayview View Post
Assuming the is a new to you boat I agree smaller batts for engine and genny start should be fine but unless the current stuff needs changing why spend the money now?. Try it and keep track of battery condition each day and see how it fits your life style.
Thanks.
That's where I was going with this.
Adequate for now or as David put it "the basics of a good system."
The input here will be catalogued and refereed to whether it's this boat or another. I also thought the 8D start was over kill and excessive weight but if it all works, gradual replacement will do.

Now, why would you want a drill press in the engine room of a 42 GB?
Attached Images
 
Hawgwash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2015, 04:50 PM   #12
Guru
 
Alaskan Sea-Duction's Avatar
 
City: Inside Passage Summer/Columbia River Winter
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Alaskan Sea-Duction
Vessel Model: 1988 M/Y Camargue YachtFisher
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,152
LED are good, they are fine and will save you many many amps......
__________________
1988 M/Y Camargue Yacht Fisher
Alaskan Sea-Duction
MMSI: 338131469
Blog: http://alaskanseaduction.blogspot.com/
Alaskan Sea-Duction is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2015, 06:00 PM   #13
TF Site Team
 
Bay Pelican's Avatar
 
City: Chicago, IL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Bay Pelican
Vessel Model: Krogen 42
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,791
We all have different opinions. My thoughts, and I use something similar is to get rid of the engine start batteries. The 12 six volt and an isolated genset start battery are sufficient. With that large of a bank consider figuring out how to charge the house bank using both your inverter/charger and the separate charger. One way to do that is to be able to split the bank while charging and have the genset alternator and your separate charger feeding one half the bank and then the inverter/charger feeding the other half.
__________________
Marty
Bay Pelican is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2015, 06:37 PM   #14
Guru
 
MYTraveler's Avatar
 
City: West Coast
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 852
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawgwash View Post

5 KW Engine driven alternator
That doesn't seem right.
MYTraveler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2015, 08:05 PM   #15
Guru
 
Capt.Bill11's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawgwash View Post

Now, why would you want a drill press in the engine room of a 42 GB?
Capt.Bill11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2015, 08:10 PM   #16
Guru
 
Hawgwash's Avatar
 
City: Sidney
Country: Canada
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,265
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.Bill11 View Post
Ok, I'll bite.
Hawgwash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2015, 09:28 PM   #17
Guru
 
JDCAVE's Avatar
 
City: Lions Bay, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Phoenix Hunter
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen 42 (1985)
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,612
As stated these are the basics of a decent system. I would try things for a year and see how it works out before changing anything much. Just because a new inverter/charger and new batteries can easily exceed 5 boat units.

The Rolls batteries are excellent but bring your cheque book! I talked to a fellow who went 16 years on his big 2 volt cells. He also had a huge alternator. I also talked to another fellow who pooched his rolls batteries after one year because of poor battery management. He thought that his alternator was all he needed to keep his batteries properly charged and they eventually failed. His alternator was insufficient for his setup.

When it comes time to a new inverter charger, I'm very pleased with the Magnum MS2812 which is a pure sine wave inverter. The Magnum remote monitor that is an easy integration comes with an SOC meter. While it's nice to augment a low shore power setup at times (for example the magnum Hybrid systems), it's a rare need, in my opinion.

WRT the claims of staying on the hook for 3 days without charging...that's bad battery management IMNSHO. Best to not let the batteries go down too low before charging. My electrician recommended cycling between 70-90%.


Jim
Sent from my iPad using Trawler Forum
JDCAVE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2015, 01:09 AM   #18
Guru
 
Hawgwash's Avatar
 
City: Sidney
Country: Canada
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,265
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDCAVE
WRT the claims of staying on the hook for 3 days without charging...that's bad battery management IMNSHO. Best to not let the batteries go down too low before charging. My electrician recommended cycling between 70-90%.
I guess it all depends on their usage during those 3 days. He did say it "was possible" but not something they made a habit of.

As for depth of discharge, I always thought 50% was not detrimental as long as a good 100% recharge (ie shore power) was carried out once every couple of weeks or so.

More learning to do I guess.
Thanks Jim.
Hawgwash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2015, 01:49 AM   #19
Guru
 
JDCAVE's Avatar
 
City: Lions Bay, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Phoenix Hunter
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen 42 (1985)
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,612
I have separate fridge and freezer units. When it's hot out we can easily use 250 amp hours or 22% of house bank capacity, SOC 78%. If you then recharge, you might her it back to 95%. The next discharge cycle brings you back down to 73% so you bring it back up to about. 90% and so on. You don't want to start a 2 week anchoring cycle going all the way down to 50% on the first go.

It's because the charge-discharge cycle trends to lower SOC's with each discharge in the cycle, it really is important to be in top of battery management...and that's why solar has great potential for battery longevity, as solar can continue to put a charge into the batteries when the charge efficiency rate is too low for efficient use of a generator.

Calder has a great explanation of the charge-discharge cycle over several days on anchor.


Jim
Sent from my iPad using Trawler Forum
JDCAVE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2015, 03:15 AM   #20
Guru
 
Xsbank's Avatar
 
City: Pender Harbour, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Gwaii Haanas
Vessel Model: Vancouver Shipyards Custom Aluminum 52
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,447
If I got this right, 40 amp charger? You would have to run your genset for...15+ hours? I would reconsider that item, I have 4 golf carts and a 120 amp charger and it takes about 3 and a bit hours to get to float.

Unless you run your engine as a charger but that's getting expensive, unless you move a lot. You need a schwack (opposite of scohtch) of solar panels too.
__________________

__________________
Don't believe everything that you think.
Xsbank is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012