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Old 09-26-2008, 11:34 AM   #21
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RE: Custom newbuilds, on the cheap?

Fuel might be the straw that broke the camels back. I'm guessing if a freak storm sank a bunch of boats and insurance rates skyrocketed then people would be sitting at the dock too. The same as if guest moorage prices doubled.

In my view, what you see is people living too close to the edge. If you don't have an extra $100.00 per month, (the effect of the price of fuel doubling, in my circumstance) to keep boating, then maybe you have too much boat, too convenient of a moorage spot, or some other problem.

My moorage is not the closest I could find to my house, it's the best trade off of convenience and cost. My boat is what I could afford to pay cash for. By saving my money after paying off the smaller older boat, I could pay cash for the newer bigger one.

And I don't appologize for having whatever money I have. While I was working the 70 and 80 hour workweeks others were enjoying their time off. Now I'm ramping down to 50 and 60 hour weeks. When others went out to fancy dinners we cooked at home. If you want to call me wealthy go right ahead, I earned every penny.

And those who buy the new GB 41 probably earned it also. And if they didn't, if they are trust fund babies or ripoff artists, it won't do me any good to be jealous. There's nothing to envy about my life or theirs. We all make a large portion of our luck. And the portion we can't control builds character.

As always, your views may vary,

Ken
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Old 09-26-2008, 12:09 PM   #22
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RE: Custom newbuilds, on the cheap?

Quote:
FF wrote:

"Oh and we don't roll like a pig in mud either."


The only way a hard chined boat obtains added stability is to run at speeds that produce dynamic lift , those semi displacement speeds. SL 1.5 and higher.

When operated as a DISPLACEMENT boat at disp speeds the ride , roll , and handeling will resemble any plaining boat at low speed , poor to miserable

I completely disagree here.* A semi or planing hull has more "initial stability" than a full displacement boat with potentially rounded bilges(think static versus dynamic stability as it relates to planes).* A hard chined square assed boat is going to resist roll due to its added buoyancy spread out over its beam.* Whereas a full displacement boat will not intiallly resist roll.* This is THE reason boat manufacturers design semi-planing boats and then power it to do displacement speeds.* The obvious downside to this and maybe what Fred was getting at is that once you do get into rolly conditions, a square assed boat is going to "snap" back and forth due to that added buoyancy whereas a rounded bilge boat will have a more gentle predictable rhythmic*motion.
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Old 09-26-2008, 01:42 PM   #23
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RE: Custom newbuilds, on the cheap?

John Baker, Very good sir. As to manufacturers square assed hard chine boats you may have a point. In recent years boaters have been binging on stability. People have gone nuts for boats that boast stability. Catamarans, rib's, hard chines, stabilizers and just plain wide fat boats are more popular than ever. In the 20s, 30s, 40s, and fifties boats were narrow because we did'nt have much power and narrow boats were much more efficent. WE ARE GOING BACK THERE... because we can't afford the power. How readidly people can kick the addiction of excess stability will determine how fast we get there.

Eric Henning
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Thorne Bay AK
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Old 09-26-2008, 01:51 PM   #24
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RE: Custom newbuilds, on the cheap?

No reason you can't do a narrow boat wth stabilizers. The corporate yacht I was associated with for awhile was like this. Designed by Philip Rodes (sp?) and built by Abbeking & Rasmussen in Germany in 1966, she's 120 feet long but relatively narrow (don't remember the exact beam). She was fitted with one of the first retractable active stabilizer systems, and while she really needs them out in open water, they do a good job of providing a smooth, stable ride. And modern stabilizer systems are even better, more responsive and more reliable.

-- Edited by Marin at 14:52, 2008-09-26
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Old 09-26-2008, 06:36 PM   #25
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RE: Custom newbuilds, on the cheap?

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*Anybody want to discuss the best dock condo?

-- Edited by sloboat at 19:15, 2008-09-26
Start a new thread.* But since you liked the Hatteras LRC, why not the planing 53 foot Hatteras.* I think they are damn good looking boats(better looking than the 58LRC IMO) and they have some speed on them if you need it.* Talk about a fantastic layout as well.* All of the above features are why they still command good money.** And they made lots of them as opposed to the LRC so it*should be easier to find a decent example.
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Old 09-27-2008, 04:36 AM   #26
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RE: Custom newbuilds, on the cheap?

But since you liked the Hatteras LRC, why not the planing 53 foot Hatteras.

As noted if folks are willing to get off the PC "trawler" verbage there are some fine cheap boats out there for cruising.

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Old 09-27-2008, 05:54 PM   #27
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RE: Custom newbuilds, on the cheap?

For those that are serious about economy or " cheap " as FF says may want to consider this idea. There are lots of old boats, nice big Tollys, Carvers, Chris Crafts and many others that mostly have twin 8 cyl gas engines and are on the market cheap and getting cheaper fast. One could buy one of these, modify the shape of the stern and repower with two 30 or 40 hp diesels or perhaps one 60 to 70 hp. This should be relatively low tech work in either wood or fiberglass. A great deal of flotation at the stern would be removed so fore and aft trim should be considered. When I was shopping for my Willard I had a bit of an affair ( in my head ) over the GB 32 but considered it much too inefficent at disp speeds. Thats where I got this Idea. A Yanmar 4JH4E ( 55 hp ) would do just fine. That could even be a bit over powered. To make the mod job as easy as possible one should select a hull that has straight lines from the center of the bottom out to the chine so the original hull bottom can most easily be bent in a nice fair curve up to the water line. Some of the hull on the lower aft sides below the water line and most or all of the transom below the water line would be removed. One could get a very inexpensive to an incredibly inexpensive mid sized to large Trawler. This could be done to a Nordic Tug. I wouldn't be supprised if Nordic ( or others ) came out with such a boat to address the need for more efficent boats. As it is now anybody that can afford to buy one can pay for the fuel but as the boat gets older there comes a time when thats not true. Personally I like hard chine boats and they are only a tad less efficent than smooth chined boats. I think this would be a great project for a great boat at a great price.

Eric Henning
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Thorne Bay AK

-- Edited by nomadwilly at 18:59, 2008-09-27
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Old 09-27-2008, 10:29 PM   #28
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RE: Custom newbuilds, on the cheap?

Hell, ya'll could just buy mine (so I can get out from under my note and buy that shiny new trawler I have my eye on).

Semi-seriously, my boat is the epitome of the floating condo. Nice cockpit, sundeck, flush main deck (1 6" step from saloon to galley/PH level), and decent living quarters below decks. Large FB and boatdeck, with davit and new bimini/strataglass... and we're fully stabilized and have a bow thruster.

At 1200 RPM, the fuel hungry 8V92s burn around 17 gph and we're cruising at about 10.5 kts. Back it down to 1100 RPM, we're burning around 10-12 gph and cruising at about 9.5 kts. Where it gets hairy is when it comes time to blow out the DDs. WOT is around 2k RPM, we're burning 76 gph and cruising at around 20 kts * Suffice it to say we only blow them out when necessary.

Make me an offer I can't refuse.
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Old 09-28-2008, 05:39 AM   #29
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RE: Custom newbuilds, on the cheap?

" A semi or planing hull has more "initial stability" than a full displacement boat with potentially rounded bilges(think static versus dynamic stability as it relates to planes). "

Hulls with great areas of flat sections aft DO have more initial stability which is very comforting for lubbers stepping aboard at the DOCK,

Unfortunatly ,The large flats work as levers that increase the roll action any time the vessel is not gaining stability from being on the plane.

At disp. speeds the rolling and heeling angles will be HIGHER than the disp. boat that does roll, bur also HEAVES , lifts as the wave passes., to absorb the passing energy.

That's why there are very few flat bottomed or V bottomed boats Voyaging.

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Old 09-28-2008, 10:50 AM   #30
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RE: Custom newbuilds, on the cheap?

"The heaving is mostly done by the spouses on board."

Guess you have a plaining boat , the bride only heaved once on the loop , after a rather rough crossing of Lake Ontario.
Thin water , big fetch , even bilge keels didn't keep breakfast for her.

Got some small flopper stoppers , with poles from RY , but still on the to do list.

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Old 09-28-2008, 01:40 PM   #31
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RE: Custom newbuilds, on the cheap?

Sorry I can't make you any offers Chuck ( I'll stick to my 1 gal hr Willard ) but I'd like to know ...your WWL, Max hp and displacement. " blowing them out " must be glorious funnn. I love the sound of a DD at work. Your wake at 20 knots mut be a sight to see .. prefferably from your boat. If I had your boat I could live here a week there a week and anywhere in SE AK for whatever period of time. I'd have to sell my house and hit the GOP for buckets of bailout money to get under way. If I called up Wrangel on the VHF asking for moorage I'd probably be greeted with a period of silence.

Eric Henning
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Old 09-28-2008, 01:56 PM   #32
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RE: Custom newbuilds, on the cheap?

Eric,

Can't say that I blame you in terms of economy. Our max HP is 1470 (735/engine), and we displace a little over 40 tons. I gotta tell ya, pushing that much mass at 20 kts can be downright scary! You could literally surf on the wake.

Much of LA Harbor is 5 kt (no wake) speed limit. At idle speed, both engines in gear, we cruise at 5.6 kts and burn around 3 gph. At idle speed, we don't even make a lump.

Truth be told, this is a perfect boat for the PNW, and there are many Vantares up there.
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Old 09-28-2008, 10:08 PM   #33
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RE: Custom newbuilds, on the cheap?

Chuck, If you were to change the stern into disp configuration it should take about 200 hp to drive her at 8.5 to 9 knots if she's about 55 feet .. maybe she's longer ?? Five or six hp per ton should be plenty. That still wouldn't be much under 10 gph.

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Old 09-30-2008, 04:53 AM   #34
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RE: Custom newbuilds, on the cheap?

"Your boat is not a full displacement hull."

However it is round bottomed , and has long bilge keels added as roll dampers .

There are NO flats aft to destabelize the boat at 8K , and of course the boat does roll less when semi plaining at 12K , but the ride difference is not worth the difference between 2,5 gph to 10gph.

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