Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 03-05-2018, 10:09 AM   #1
Senior Member
 
mattkab's Avatar
 
City: Tacoma
Vessel Name: C:\[ESC]
Vessel Model: 2002 Bayliner 4788
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 285
Advice requested: PSS bellows loose and leaking

We came down to our fairly-new-to-us 4788, and noticed water coming out of one of the through hulls periodically.

After investigation, we found that the port engine PSS seal was leaking substantially where the stainless collar meets the bellows. We re-sat the collar, and stopped the leak, but the whole bellows is loose and can be wiggled. You can see how easy it is to move in the video. The starboard side doesn't move at all.

I'm just starting to investigate the fix, but open to suggestions and pointers.

__________________
Thanks,
Matt B.
https://mvcesc.wordpress.com/
mattkab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2018, 10:22 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
Tuttouomo's Avatar
 
City: PNW
Vessel Name: Lady A
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 154
Matt, the stainless collar should be tight on the shaft , and in a position to apply pressure to the bellows. There are allen set screws in the s/s collar and they should be tight and doubled up. The bellows should have approx. 1" of compression, but check with PSS as that dimension is variable with shaft diameter.

Bill
Tuttouomo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2018, 10:36 AM   #3
Senior Member
 
mattkab's Avatar
 
City: Tacoma
Vessel Name: C:\[ESC]
Vessel Model: 2002 Bayliner 4788
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 285
Thanks.

Per the PSS compression chart, it should be 1". But 1" from what baseline, on a previous installation?

To "fix" the leak, we just pushed the stainless collar down the shaft about 1/4" -- sounds like maybe that's not enough?
__________________
Thanks,
Matt B.
https://mvcesc.wordpress.com/
mattkab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2018, 10:47 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
Tuttouomo's Avatar
 
City: PNW
Vessel Name: Lady A
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 154
The 1" is from the baseline of a fully relaxed bellow. If it still drips at 1", compress in 1/8 " increments.

Bill
Tuttouomo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2018, 10:55 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
mattkab's Avatar
 
City: Tacoma
Vessel Name: C:\[ESC]
Vessel Model: 2002 Bayliner 4788
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 285
Thank you... that helps a lot, and that's pretty much what we did. Just compressed the collar until the leaking stopped.

Should I not be concerned with the "wiggle" in the bellows, if the leaking has stopped?
__________________
Thanks,
Matt B.
https://mvcesc.wordpress.com/
mattkab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2018, 10:56 AM   #6
Moderator Emeritus
 
Comodave's Avatar
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Vessel Name: Black Dog
Vessel Model: Formula 41PC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 21,185
As the bellows age, they loose some strength so they don’t apply as much tension on the seal. As suggested tighten it up and see how it goes. The bellows have a life span so depending how old it is it may need repalcement. Congrats on your new 4788.
Comodave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2018, 11:02 AM   #7
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48 (sold)
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuttouomo View Post
Matt, the stainless collar should be tight on the shaft , and in a position to apply pressure to the bellows. There are allen set screws in the s/s collar and they should be tight and doubled up. The bellows should have approx. 1" of compression, but check with PSS as that dimension is variable with shaft diameter.

Bill


Three things I would suggest:
  • Get new set screws for the SS collar from PSS, not knockoffs. Install them per the PSS protocol
  • Put a suitably sized shaft zinc in front of the SS collar so it can't slip again.
  • How old is the PSS system? If older than 8 years, at the next haul out replace the entire assembly, especially since it is a new to you vessel.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2018, 11:17 AM   #8
Senior Member
 
mattkab's Avatar
 
City: Tacoma
Vessel Name: C:\[ESC]
Vessel Model: 2002 Bayliner 4788
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 285
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunchaser View Post
Three things I would suggest:
  • Get new set screws for the SS collar from PSS, not knockoffs. Install them per the PSS protocol
  • Put a suitably sized shaft zinc in front of the SS collar so it can't slip again.
  • How old is the PSS system? If older than 8 years, at the next haul out replace the entire assembly, especially since it is a new to you vessel.
Thank you...

  1. I'll order new set screws today and have them shipped out
  2. The zinc is a good idea, I'll order that too
  3. I don't know how old the system is. Boat is a 2002, so it could be 15 years old. I'll dig through the paperwork on the boat to see if I can find something, but honestly I'd be surprised. Probably just change both out in the spring, in my scheduled haulout.
__________________
Thanks,
Matt B.
https://mvcesc.wordpress.com/
mattkab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2018, 12:01 PM   #9
Guru
 
porman's Avatar
 
City: Duvall, Wa. USA
Vessel Name: Beach Music II
Vessel Model: 2003 Mainship 430 Trawler
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,040
The suggested replacement interval is 6 years. Our Mainship is now 15 years old and I'm sure they have never been replaced. Will take care of it at the next haulout.
porman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2018, 01:17 PM   #10
TF Site Team
 
FlyWright's Avatar
 
City: California Delta
Vessel Name: FlyWright
Vessel Model: 1977 Marshall Californian 34 LRC
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 13,728
I believe that the set screws are "stacked" so you must remove the first set screw to reach the 'working' set screw. Once it is tightened, the second set screw gets stacked into the same threads.

No doubt the PSS instructions cover this and this is probably what Sunchaser was referring to but thought I'd add that to the conversation....just in case it's overlooked.
__________________
My boat is my ark. It's my mobile treehouse and my floating fishing cabin. It's my retreat and my respite. Everyday I thank God I have a boat! -Al FJB

@DeltaBridges - 25 Delta Bridges in 25 Days
FlyWright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2018, 04:07 PM   #11
Member
 
City: NJ
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 6
Had to replace mine last year, same issue, mine were in their 8th year.

I tried new screws after compressing a further 1/2", didn't work.

Once you set the collar, make a line with sharpie 1/2" forward of collar on shaft. This can be used to confirm collar is not moving forward after your first few runs.
joekerins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2018, 04:58 PM   #12
Guru
 
Ken E.'s Avatar
 
City: Bellingham WA
Vessel Name: Hatt Trick
Vessel Model: 45' Hatteras Convertible
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,973
I have these on both my drive shafts and rudder posts, and just had the maintenance procedure done a month ago while I was hauled out. The yard told me the bellows replacement interval was 5 years. The PSS website says every 6 years, which I looked up after the fact. So......I was had by a year.
Ken E. is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2018, 05:08 PM   #13
Guru
 
diver dave's Avatar
 
City: Palm Coast, FL
Vessel Name: Coquina
Vessel Model: Lagoon 380
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,570
And, make sure the shaft did not move/slide into the coupler. Another set of set screws to mess with.
diver dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2018, 05:12 PM   #14
Guru
 
Bigsfish's Avatar
 
City: Miami River
Vessel Name: Gotcha
Vessel Model: Grand Banks. Heritage. 54
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 2,988
I’m having a similar problem, after adjusting three time I decided to replace both assembles in their entirety. About four years of use but I don’t like taking chances on this type of keeping the boat afloat device. My previous boat went over ten years without an adjustment.

Al is correct, there are two set screws for each hole.
Bigsfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2018, 05:19 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
City: Washington
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 468
My advice: Take it to a respected boatyard that's experienced with PSS seals. A screw up could be costly.
aboatman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2018, 05:34 PM   #16
Enigma
 
RT Firefly's Avatar
 
City: Slicker?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,563
Greetings,
Mr. a. " A screw up could be costly." Or in Mr. m's case, possibly, an un-screwup could be costly.

__________________
RTF
RT Firefly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2018, 06:42 PM   #17
Guru
 
mahal's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 651
I plan to replace mine at the next haul out since I don't know its age. But wouldn't it be better to replace it with the traditional (bulletproof) stuffing box? Before Gore GFO, I would not consider this switch, but I'm not so sure now. I used Gore GFO packing on my previous boat and when I repacked it after 8 years, it still looked very good and gave me no problems all those years.

I just don't get the same peace of mind with my PSS system that I did with a brass stuffing box. The one drawback I can see is cost. The old style stuffing box with nipple for cooling water cost much more than a PSS kit.

Thoughts?
mahal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2018, 07:28 PM   #18
Enigma
 
RT Firefly's Avatar
 
City: Slicker?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,563
Greetings,
Mr. m. I am of the same opinion as yourself. "bulletproof" and "peace of mind". Personally I do NOT like PSS or similar style systems. They are "solutions" looking for a virtually non-existent problem IMO. I would much rather tolerate a bit of water in the bilge than trust a system that might cause a sinking. A "classic" stuffing box system can be readily re-packed while in the water and $$-wise, a few feet of GFO packing is far less expensive than hauling and replacing a complete "dripless" system every 5-8 years.
__________________
RTF
RT Firefly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2018, 05:42 AM   #19
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 22,553
IF the bellows seal was done after the boat was built , the stock shaft seal setup may still be intact.

If it is you can toss the dangerous bellows and return to the origional style stuffing box, just be sure to install a modern packing like Duramax or similar.

The ceramic seal folks now use a heavy hose instead of the thin bellows , perhaps they offer a retrofit set up?
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2018, 06:47 AM   #20
Senior Member
 
City: Washington
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 468
Since when is a dripless seal "dangerous"? Thousands of boats are using them including mine.
aboatman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Trawler Port Captains
Port Captains are TF volunteers who can serve as local guides or assist with local arrangements and information. Search below to locate Port Captains near your destination. To learn more about this program read here: TF Port Captain Program





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:08 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012