Cruising Northern BC,bears & guns

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In 1972 I took my Winchester 30 -30 lever action model 1894 with me on a Jeep-camping trip through Canada to Alaska. One day I arrived at the entrance to a camping site in Yukon Territory to find what looked like a family of campers or tourists (not sure which) including mom, dad, and kids all looking off the one side and making motions with food in their hands toward a black bear maybe 30-40 feet from them and facing them. I was 50 yards or so from them and was not noticed. I shut the Jeep down as I grabbed the rifle levering a round out of the magazine into the chamber. I layed it acorss my hood aiming at the bear hoping it would not charge the family and hoping if it did that I could get at least one round into it before it got the first kid. Showing far more sense that the humans, the bear eventually backed away. Nobody noticed me in the over watch position, and I decided that this was no place for my tent that night and moved on. Bear spray in that paticular situation would not have been any good. Maybe it would have been better if I had just driven the Jeep right at the bear getting between it and the family and shooing it off, but that's hindsight. Just about all the recent bear attacks I have read about were complete surprises to the maulee, almost, but not quite, like ambushes. The common theme, as mentioned before, seems to have been a surprised back or brown bear. Make noise!
 
I took a tally today of houses on my letter carrier route who's back yards border onto the bush (forest) and there are 65. The houses are close enough to salmon spawning beds that I can hear the water when in flood, so there's a couple hundred yards or so from the houses to the water. Lots of space for bears to move through. I'd estimate there are at least 300 houses in town that back onto bush near either the river or the creek.

Kitimat was hacked out of virgin old growth forest about 70 years ago. If bears were so dangerous, why haven't bears grabbed children from their back yards when playing outside? Three seconds in, grab, shake, three seconds out for an easy snack. Not one has. Ever.

Only two kids that I know of were mauled near Kitimat by black bears, and the one I know was with a group of kids (about 6 to 10 years old) who were chucking rocks at a black bear that turned out to have cubs. That was 50 years ago...I think kids are a little more bear smart now.

Another story...I was walking Zain (our 3/4 Pyrenees 1/4 Lab that chases absolutely nothing in the bush) on the sidewalk near my house in the dark and in the rain. We were walking between fenced back yards where the fences angled towards each other in front of us. Zain slowed, then stopped. He stood still, raised himself to his full height, and stared intently at a spot along one of the fences.

I tried to see what had his attention and could barely see a hint of movement. I've learned to pay attention to and respect his body language, so waited until he was ready to move.

There was a street light at the end of the fence, which clearly lit a mother grizzly and her two cubs as they rounded the end of the fence. I paced it off yesterday, and we were 100' away from the bears when Zain stopped. If he had started barking and freaking out, the mother might have felt threatened because her cubs couldn't have climbed the fence.

Moral of the story being; even a mother grizzly, given time and enough space, will prefer to move her cubs quietly out of the way.
 
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rgano said:
In 1972 I took my Winchester 30 -30 lever action model 1894 with me on a Jeep-camping trip through Canada to Alaska....
Click to expand...

My brother-in-laws brother was visiting from England and noticed a black bear cub in a tree beside the logging road they were driving down, so brother-in-law stops so everyone could have a bit of a look. Before anybody could say or do anything, his brother jumped out of the car and ran to the base of the tree to take photos :eek:

Got away with it...
 
Accidently walk between a brown and her cub and you might wish you had a 50 Cal machine gun with you.


Just because where you have lived, camped, fished or hunted with minimal bear interaction doesn't mean you are safe.....depends on the bear population.


I have never drowned, but I have a life jacket for me on the boat. Even though I can swim, tread water, use clothes for flotation and am a sea survival instructor. Having all those things at my disposal doesn't mean I shouldn't consider what is the ultimate anti drowning tool.
 
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I don’t fish and don’t hunt. Brings the odds down in my favour :thumb:

The bear biologist giving the talk I went to the other day had an interesting experience. He was going back to the same spot within sight of a prime fishing area for quite a while, gathering behaviour data. A female grizzly was fishing nearby, but wasn’t doing too well because the big males had all the best spots.

After a while (not sure how many days) the mom would walk near him, grunt at her cus which would lay down, then she’d go to where the fishing was better knowing her cubs were safe from the males.

Not saying this is normal behaviour on either the bears or biologists part, but shows bears aren’t necessarily the vicious beasts Hollywood makes them out to be.
 
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MurrayM said:
I don’t fish and don’t hunt. Brings the odds down in my favour :thumb:

The bear biologist giving the talk I went to the other day had an interesting experience. He was going back to the same spot within sight of a prime fishing area for quite a while, gathering behaviour data. A female grizzly was fishing nearby, but wasn’t doing too well because the big males had all the best spots.

After a while (not sure how many days) the mom would walk near him, grunt at her cus which would lay down, then she’d go to where the fishing was better knowing her cubs were safe from the males.

Not saying this is normal behaviour on either the bears or biologists part, but shows bears aren’t necessarily the vicious beasts Hollywood makes them out to be.
Click to expand...

Actually I use utmost caution with any animal that places us lower on the food chain than they are. Bears, big sharks, lions, cougars, poisonous snakes and spiders, gaters, and crocs all deserve using whatever means to keep yourself safe.

I'm sure these folks felt comfortable around bears enough to be at the remote place this happened.

Doesnt sound like the one below was vicious !


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/...ter-killed-grizzly-bear-outside-cabin-n941156

I was woken by a young bear in the middle of the night that was ransacking our camp in the High Sierras.. luckily the noise and bright flashlights were enough to run it off.. if we had been attacked the 30+ mile hike might of been a death sentence.

I was spear fishing in Suwarrow Atoll in the Cook Islands and got pretty comfortable with the white and black tip reef sharks, often having to wrestle my fish away from them to get the fish in the boat. The reef sharks can do sizeable damage if they get a hold of you, but getting eaten by one would be rare. The day a 12' Tiger showed up it was a race to get out of the water as my 6' Tahitian spear gun was no match for a decent size tiger.. I feel the same way about Brown bears.. again its the food chain thing.

Its all about risk management, go offshore get a epirb and a good raft, do aerobatics in a plane wear a chute, hang out in bear country get a big ass gun!

HOLLYWOOD
 
A lot of good comments here as I have been debating the weapon issue in my own mind with Alaska in my sights.
The few times I saw Grizzles in Alaska I was in my car and even though the mother and cub ran right by he car, I was inside and knew I could always drive away.
When hiking in the bush, while we never had weapons, we knew to make constant noise and that's pretty easy for me.
However, one time we were west of Wiseman in the Brook's range and saw a grizzly across the valley, more than a mile away.
At first my joy at finally seeing a grizzly rapidly gave way to a real fear. Was he getting closer? I picked up the pace in the opposite direction. My reaction surprised me, because I'm normally not afraid of any animal, knowing not to molest them.

As has been pointed out, cows and horses are more deadly than bears. Also, guns in the home increase one's chances of being injured or killed by that same weapon.

Lastly, I also know Alaskans, who would never go into the bush without a weapon, but they are trained and use them often. But I know I would not put the effort into it that I think is needed to be both safe and protective (which I think was the point PSNeel was making).
So, I'm just going to pass.
I think I'd rather have a hard dingy that can't be mauled:dance:
 
Like Richard suggests, you'd better know how to handle a gun if you plan to use it and not pepper spray. I have no interest in guns, so practice avoidance with pepper spray back up.

Before my wife and I left on our six months of sea kayaking the BC coast (where we saw one bear the whole time...so we know how to avoid and not attract them) a guy told my wife after finding out we weren't going to take a gun with us, "Well, don't come crying to me when a bear rips your face off". Riiiight.

I'd like to hear from more people who actually live around bears all the time. The OP asked about north coast BC bears, so that's why I chimed in so much. If it was about Alaskan brown bears, I'd mostly keep my mouth shut, listen, and learn.

My sense is those people who live with bears aren't so worried about them (but obviously respect them) and the concern level goes up as people have less experience with bears.

Also, I'm talking about moving through bear territory such as in a day hike. Living in one place in a camp situation brings along a whole new set of rules.
 
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hollywood8118 said:
Doesnt sound like the one below was vicious !

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/...ter-killed-grizzly-bear-outside-cabin-n941156
Click to expand...

Sad story for sure. Might have ended otherwise if she'd had pepper spray.

The fellow I mentioned earlier who walks salmon streams alone for a living packs one large can of spray on each hip. I asked him, "So...you must have been in a situation where one can just wasn't enough, eh?" All he said was, "Yup" I didn't press him for the details.

If I remember correctly, the most bears he saw in one day on a stream/river survey was 27.
 
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I’ve been boating and living in bear country (Alaska) for pretty much my entire adult life.

Many moons ago I shot and killed a Black bear from less than ten feet away.
I do not know to this day what the outcome would have been had I not shot him. We were both startled and he was not running away.

I know a good person who’s husband and mother in law were killed and partially eaten by a Grizzly Bear in the city limits of Anchorage probably two decades ago. They were doing nothing more than jogging on a well marked trail.

While walking off pavement I am always armed. On the boat I carry a Mossberg Mariner 12 gauge pump action shotgun loaded with Brenneke Black Magic slugs. I have carried many different weapons, prior including a variety of handguns and rifles.

I have also taken my shotgun into Canada. They had a form to fill out and at that time they did not ask to see the shotgun but I think that is at the discretion of the border officer.

My advice is that it is better to be safe than sorry. Comply will all rules of the countries you visit, but do not put yourself in harms way.

That also means from yourself. If you have not taken the time to develop firearms skills you will not get a shot on target in the very few seconds you will have in a bear encounter. If that is the case you are better off distancing yourself from potential bear issues. That means avoiding brushy or other places with limited visibility in bear country. It’s not like a bear is going to stalk you. A typical bear encounter is you and the bear surprising each other, with both of you acting out of instinct. Dogs are also a problem, and a warning mechanism. I have had my dogs act very unhappy on shore only to have a bear emerge from the brush just after I cast off from shore in the skiff. Dogs running loose also can run from a bear and the bear chases the dog right back to you.

Again, be careful and keep yourself out of harms way.
 
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Speaking if real bear threats, I have heard of curious bears exploring RIBS and popping the tubes. Is this one incident that has been repeated and morphed enough to sound like a daily occurrence? Any thoughts on the matter? I would assume normal rules like leaving your car in bear country; leave no food - absolutely nothing - in the boat so they are not attracted.


If for real, this seems like a much more likely problem to encounter.
 
twistedtree said:
Speaking if real bear threats, I have heard of curious bears exploring RIBS and popping the tubes. Is this one incident that has been repeated and morphed enough to sound like a daily occurrence? Any thoughts on the matter? I would assume normal rules like leaving your car in bear country; leave no food - absolutely nothing - in the boat so they are not attracted.


If for real, this seems like a much more likely problem to encounter.
Click to expand...

I had one get into my tube and fabric floatplane once. (for those interested my plane was a 1949 Taylorcraft) I walked out of my cabin at a remote lake and saw a wire hanging down into the water from the door of the plane.

Pulled on the wire and up came my headset. Opened the door to the plane (it was unlatched) and found signs that a bear had been rummaging around. Thank gawd there was no damage. Bears have been known to tear planes up really bad.

BTW, i was able to find a link to an article in the NY times regarding the bear attack I mentioned above.

https://www.nytimes.com/1995/07/04/us/bear-kills-woman-and-her-son-in-alaska.html
 
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the hunters I knew on Kodiak used a large RHIB for hunting deer...they never seemed concerned with fabric covered in deer blood so I am sure like many things we hear about...trying to put them into real perspective is always a challenge.


That's why I posted before...someone always has a story opposing your experience. Ya gotta get beyond a "persons" experiences and get the wide perspective....unless that person truly has that wide of perspective about the question.
 
Just remember, paths though the berry patches with the switch back and sweeping curves were not created by man.
I worked a summer out west near Orfino ID marking timber for the USFS. We walked through the forest marking timber, utilizing the paths through the berry patches.... The other crew members never did figure out why I would whistle a lot. Never saw a bear. LOL
 
Four years ago we had the pleasure of spending some time at the Yes Bay Lodge north of Ketchikan. It is a wonderful place situated in the heart of brown bear country and as the crow flies close to the Anan bear observatory.

We decided to take a hike towards Santa Ana Inlet, the trail being a major old time conduit along a spawning stream and cannery. The lodge owner said don't go without the dogs, the reason being obvious. So away we went accompanied by three Karelian bear dogs. These dogs trace back to Finland and are bred to be loyal, hunters, killers and barkers.

So away we went, one dog in front, one behind and one in the bush going crazy. They were on the hunt and according to the lodge owner the Bears knew it and kept clear. Given our myriad of back country bear experiences, this one was intentionally tame.

If anyone is interested, look up Anan or Pack Creek bear watching videos on you tube. Once in real bear country the encounters are fascinating and potentially life threatening for the unwary.

BTW Ken, your Mossberg is a popular choice for the AK F&G guys too.
 
sunchaser said:
BTW Ken, your Mossberg is a popular choice for the AK F&G guys too.
Click to expand...

Ah yup, I have one too. Dark of night, hear people on deck, racking that pump, that is usually all it takes to get them off the boat. But then, the next day you might have to hose off the deck of the brown smelly stuff.
 
ksanders said:
Many moons ago I shot and killed a Black bear from less than ten feet away.
I do not know to this day what the outcome would have been had I not shot him. We were both startled and he was not running away.
Click to expand...

Hi Kevin,

From your comment, I'm guessing you were moving pretty silently through the bush (beside a loud stream perhaps?) to startle a bear only ten feet away?

I'm asking because this might line up with what I said earlier, that sometimes people with guns might move through the bush quieter than someone with pepper spray, therefore they probably have more close encounters with bears.

In addition to whacking things with a stick, I also have a special 'bear hoot' (loud, and doesn't sound like any other animal) I use in thick bush, beside loud creeks, etc.

I was walking my route one day and a lady said there was a bear very close, so I gave my bear hoot. Another letter carrier was on the street next to the one I was on and he pasted his back against a house because a black bear came running full blast directly at him. He said it looked like a rolling, rippling barrel with water spray (from wet grass) flying up behind it. When the bear hit pavement, it did a 45 degree turn and sprinted up the street and into the bush.

Freaked him out, but I was happy to know my hoot is sometimes effective.
 
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ksanders said:
I’ve been boating and living in bear country (Alaska) for pretty much my entire adult life.

Many moons ago I shot and killed a Black bear from less than ten feet away.
I do not know to this day what the outcome would have been had I not shot him. We were both startled and he was not running away.

I know a good person who’s husband and mother in law were killed and partially eaten by a Grizzly Bear in the city limits of Anchorage probably two decades ago. They were doing nothing more than jogging on a well marked trail.

While walking off pavement I am always armed. On the boat I carry a Mossberg Mariner 12 gauge pump action shotgun loaded with Brenneke Black Magic slugs. I have carried many different weapons, prior including a variety of handguns and rifles.

I have also taken my shotgun into Canada. They had a form to fill out and at that time they did not ask to see the shotgun but I think that is at the discretion of the border officer.

My advice is that it is better to be safe than sorry. Comply will all rules of the countries you visit, but do not put yourself in harms way.

That also means from yourself. If you have not taken the time to develop firearms skills you will not get a shot on target in the very few seconds you will have in a bear encounter. If that is the case you are better off distancing yourself from potential bear issues. That means avoiding brushy or other places with limited visibility in bear country. It’s not like a bear is going to stalk you. A typical bear encounter is you and the bear surprising each other, with both of you acting out of instinct. Dogs are also a problem, and a warning mechanism. I have had my dogs act very unhappy on shore only to have a bear emerge from the brush just after I cast off from shore in the skiff. Dogs running loose also can run from a bear and the bear chases the dog right back to you.

Again, be careful and keep yourself out of harms way.
Click to expand...


Excellent post by someone in the know and who is out there.
Luckily you had the means to be able to defend yourself and to pass this kind of personal knowledge on to the rest of us.


HOLLYWOOD
 
MurrayM said:
Hi Kevin,

From your comment, I'm guessing you were moving pretty silently through the bush (beside a loud stream perhaps?) to startle a bear only ten feet away?

I'm asking because this might line up with what I said earlier, that sometimes people with guns might move through the bush quieter than someone with pepper spray, therefore they probably have more close encounters with bears.

In addition to whacking things with a stick, I also have a special 'bear hoot' (loud, and doesn't sound like any other animal) I use in thick bush, beside loud creeks, etc.

I was walking my route one day and a lady said there was a bear very close, so I gave my bear hoot. Another letter carrier was on the street next to the one I was on and he pasted his back against a house because a black bear came running full blast directly at him. He said it looked like a rolling, rippling barrel with water spray (from wet grass) flying up behind it. When the bear hit pavement, it did a 45 degree turn and sprinted up the street and into the bush.

Freaked him out, but I was happy to know my hoot is sometimes effective.
Click to expand...

Tall grass, and walking, but not talking. You are correct, noise, talking singing is a great way to let them know you are there.
 
All you needed to know was posted by Murray in post #4.
This is post #82
 
Didn’t mean to kill the thread.

SORRY
 
Eric, you could have just used bear spray. No need to kill the thread. ;-)
 
ksanders said:
Tall grass, and walking, but not talking. You are correct, noise, talking singing is a great way to let them know you are there.
Click to expand...

Yup, being quiet can get you in trouble, just like when that forest tech and I got treed.
 
I grew up in BC and had plenty of encounters with bears. It was never a big concern.

Look at the facts. You are 58 times more likely to be killed by a bee sting than by a bear. I haven't yet seen a thread here about how to handle the killer bees.
 
I meant the post as a joke.
But bear stories are popular.
I have a few too.
Was born in Alaska.
Spent my early youth in Juneau.
Lived in three places in Western Alaska.
For 7 months in Anchorage.
5 more years in Juneau.
And 8 years in Thorne Bay near Ketchikan.

Heard some bear stories.
Maybe I was just up to here in bear sh#t.

Despite all the facts presented about so many things and critters are more life threatening than bears ...... bears are very dangerous.
 
AusCan said:
I grew up in BC and had plenty of encounters with bears. It was never a big concern.

Look at the facts. You are 58 times more likely to be killed by a bee sting than by a bear. I haven't yet seen a thread here about how to handle the killer bees.
Click to expand...

Actually had an encounter with Killer Bees. It was pretty funny, at least for me. A friend and I had been asked to remove a bee hive that was really mean. We’re amateur bee keepers so we put on our suits and gave it a try. For some reason the bees went after my friend but ignored me. They chased him about a 1/4 mile before they gave up. I was rolling on the ground laughing. They managed to get him through the suit several times and there must have been hundreds of stingers in the suit.

If you’re going to mess with bees, wear a suit. If I go where I might encounter a big bear, I think I’ll at least carry some bear spray. It’s just not that big a deal to carry something and not need it. I’d really hate my last words to be “Damn I wish I had some bear spray.”
 
AusCan said:
I grew up in BC and had plenty of encounters with bears. It was never a big concern.

Look at the facts. You are 58 times more likely to be killed by a bee sting than by a bear. I haven't yet seen a thread here about how to handle the killer bees.
Click to expand...

Your statistics may be true globally but, in bear country, the odds may be a bit shorter.
 
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