Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 04-14-2019, 12:33 PM   #41
Veteran Member
 
City: PNW
Country: USA
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 52
We do lot of hiking in BC, not so much in AK do to the lesser amount of logging roads. The pebble in the beer can used to be our noise maker of choice & we saw quite a few bears, both black & a few brown. We have now switched to the hand pump air horn or the Attwood Bellow
https://www.amazon.com/attwood-2460-...63143540&psc=1
& now see virtually no bears.
Another thing that we carry is a Tru Flare Bear Banger
https://www.mec.ca/en/product/4007-144/Bear-Bangers
available in Canada but have never had to use it.

Murray, is there public ground transportation from Rupert or Kitimat to the 3 Sisters?
__________________
Advertisement

Stabi is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2019, 01:31 PM   #42
Guru
 
MurrayM's Avatar
 
City: Kitimat, North Coast BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Badger
Vessel Model: 30' Sundowner Tug
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stabi View Post

Murray, is there public ground transportation from Rupert or Kitimat to the 3 Sisters?
Here's information and a link to the Oliver Creek Trail, which is the one we take. In the photo, it goes to the opposite (south) side of the range, to between the third and fourth peaks from the right. People rope up for exposed scrambling to the top, but we're happy just to scoot around in the alpine and take in hanging glaciers from the ridge lines.

Quote:
Oliver Creek Trail is 17 km long and climbs 1500 metres over its entire length, passing through wide a variety of forest types and ending in a spectacular alpine basin. It is ideal for overnight backpacking trips, connecting with both Flint Creek and Coyote Creek roads. Provides access to alpine hiking and the Seven Sisters peaks.

Access: The trailhead is located at a gravel pit on Hwy 16, about 6 km north of Oliver Creek.

Highway 16 turn-off location: 50.5 km (north) from the four way stop (Hwy 16 and 37 junction) in Terrace, 40.2 km (south) from the Kitwanga Junction (Petro-Canada gas station).
Ministry of Environment - Recreation - Seven Sisters Provincial Park

There's no public transport from Kitimat, and Greyhound stopped running up here a while back. There's a new bus service linked below. You should be able to get them to stop at the trail head which starts right beside the highway at a Highways Dept gravel storage tent. The trail is actually an old narrow access road for a small exploratory mine some 60 years ago.

Tip: 1st third sucks (steep), 2nd third flat (can be wet), final third regular hiking. They suggest overnight, but three days or more is better.

https://bcbus.ca
__________________

__________________
"The most interesting path between two points is not a straight line" Murray Minchin
MurrayM is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2019, 04:43 PM   #43
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 18,643
Chris.. the word I got about 12 ga shotgun slugs was they were effective on smaller bears but on a larger charging bear, it may not even penetrate all the skin and fat to break a bone. Maybe, maybe not.



If not, now you have a pissed off wounded bear coming at you. They hoped the next round of buckshot would blind then and get enough blood in their nostrils to affect their sense of smell. Again, not a guaranteed outcome.


That was the reason the shotgun was not considered a good defense weapon by the experts in my circles.
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2019, 04:43 PM   #44
Guru
 
OldDan1943's Avatar
 
City: Aventura FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Kinja
Vessel Model: American Tug 34 #116
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 2,913
Only need a .22 pistol. Shoot your hiking companion in the leg so you can out run your companion and the bear.
__________________
If you must love me, don't love me for my beauty. Love me because I know how to cook.
The burial for my intuitive gene was last month.
OldDan1943 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2019, 06:11 PM   #45
Guru
 
MurrayM's Avatar
 
City: Kitimat, North Coast BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Badger
Vessel Model: 30' Sundowner Tug
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,423
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldDan1943 View Post
Only need a .22 pistol. Shoot your hiking companion in the leg so you can out run your companion and the bear.
Bad plan. Any smart bear would see one is wounded, chase you down, then get the slow one for a double snack

I get to hear lots of bear stories as I walk my letter carrier route:

Dude takes dog for walk by river. Doge chases black bear. Black bear chases dog. Dog runs to owner for help. Dude climbs tree. Dog attacks black bear. Black bear climbs same tree as Dude. Dudeís wife wonders why Dude didnít turn up for dinner. Dudeís wife goes to river and finds dog at base of tree, then black bear and Dude in tree. Dudeís wife takes dog away. Black bear relaxes and goes away. Dude finally goes home.

Three guys go moose hunting with canoe access. Bag their moose and hang it in camp before taking off at first light. Grizzly dramatically claims moose at dusk. All three guys take off at a run to the canoe. Two make it and wonder, what happened to Bob? Bob ran at full speed into a large spruce tree at the edge of camp in the dark and knocked himself out. Luckily, the bear was only hungry for moose.
__________________
"The most interesting path between two points is not a straight line" Murray Minchin
MurrayM is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2019, 06:20 PM   #46
Enigma
 
RT Firefly's Avatar
 
City: Slicker?
Country: Bumpkin?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 11,995
__________________
RTF
RT Firefly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2019, 09:26 PM   #47
Guru
 
hollywood8118's Avatar
 
City: Port Townsend Washington
Country: USA
Vessel Name: " OTTER "
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander Europa 40
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,645
Quote:
Originally Posted by MurrayM View Post
You were a Coast Guard helicopter pilot, right? I'm wondering if the context of your training was different than what most people would need to know about bears.

If you intend to land near a crash site, where there might have been fatalities that a bear had claimed and been feeding on, or where people might have been grievously injured and whose wounds had attracted bears, then a gun is the first thing I'd be grabbing. I'd want at least three guys with guns!

People killed by cows every year: 20

People killed by horses every year: 20

https://www.rd.com/advice/travel/ani...r-than-sharks/



Got to love these kind of statistics... about as relevant as how many die each year choking on hot dogs?... none of these statistics matter


The death by horses and cows are accidents.. last time I checked nobody has ever been eaten by a horse or cow.. bears we are talking about EAT people.



This isn't a "gun debate" this is a safety issue. We all have gear we carry for "safety" that we all hope to never use.. but on the other hand if the time comes that the safety gear, in what ever form it takes is needed I would feel like a dumb ass if I found my self wishing I had said gear at hand.



HOLLYWOOD
hollywood8118 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2019, 09:56 PM   #48
Guru
 
MurrayM's Avatar
 
City: Kitimat, North Coast BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Badger
Vessel Model: 30' Sundowner Tug
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,423
Quote:
Originally Posted by hollywood8118 View Post
The death by horses and cows are accidents.. last time I checked nobody has ever been eaten by a horse or cow.. bears we are talking about EAT people.
Who cares if they eat you or not, you're dead.

My sister lives in Telkwa BC and her neighbour runs a guiding business near the Spatsizi Plateau. We visited their place and about 20 of their mountain pack horses came running up and surrounded us...big beasts with long hair on their feet...talk about feeling vulnerable. A bit of a spat ensued and one tried kicking another one in the head. Lucky for us, they calmed down right away. Almost made the killed by horse statistics!
__________________
"The most interesting path between two points is not a straight line" Murray Minchin
MurrayM is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2019, 10:40 PM   #49
Guru
 
City: Between Oregon and Alaska
Country: US
Vessel Name: Charlie Harper
Vessel Model: Wheeler Shipyard 83'
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,304
Bear Bangers - Bears are known to attack hunters after hearing a shot. They've learned to associate a gunshot with fresh meat.

Pit Bull attacks in 2018 in the US and Canada. In the first 8.5 months there were 23 deaths. I'd say there were fewer bear attacks with fewer fatalities.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Pit Bull.JPG
Views:	38
Size:	99.2 KB
ID:	87527  
Lepke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2019, 12:20 AM   #50
Guru
 
HopCar's Avatar
 
City: Miami Florida
Vessel Name: Possum
Vessel Model: Ellis 28
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 4,110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lepke View Post
Bear Bangers - Bears are known to attack hunters after hearing a shot. They've learned to associate a gunshot with fresh meat.

Pit Bull attacks in 2018 in the US and Canada. In the first 8.5 months there were 23 deaths. I'd say there were fewer bear attacks with fewer fatalities.
Luckily the county I live in outlawed Pitbulls.
__________________
Parks Masterson
HopCar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2019, 06:37 AM   #51
Guru
 
ranger42c's Avatar
 
City: Maryland
Country: USA
Vessel Model: 42' Sportfish
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 4,149
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
Chris.. the word I got about 12 ga shotgun slugs was they were effective on smaller bears but on a larger charging bear, it may not even penetrate all the skin and fat to break a bone. Maybe, maybe not.

If not, now you have a pissed off wounded bear coming at you. They hoped the next round of buckshot would blind then and get enough blood in their nostrils to affect their sense of smell. Again, not a guaranteed outcome.

That was the reason the shotgun was not considered a good defense weapon by the experts in my circles.

Dunno, no personal experience... and don't want some!

I remember the AF&G study was about protection from all bears though, and in the grand scheme of things they have more browns and grizzlies than PA or Maine have...

And they did take into account who can shoot what (firearm) effectively. Typical studies back them might have measured penetration, called the winner with the most depth in pine boards (or whatever) good... except some people just can't shoot a .473 Mega-Blaster (or whatever) all that well... or more than once...

-Chris
__________________
South River, Chesapeake Bay
ranger42c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2019, 08:27 AM   #52
Guru
 
hollywood8118's Avatar
 
City: Port Townsend Washington
Country: USA
Vessel Name: " OTTER "
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander Europa 40
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,645
Quote:
Originally Posted by MurrayM View Post
Who cares if they eat you or not, you're dead.

My sister lives in Telkwa BC and her neighbour runs a guiding business near the Spatsizi Plateau. We visited their place and about 20 of their mountain pack horses came running up and surrounded us...big beasts with long hair on their feet...talk about feeling vulnerable. A bit of a spat ensued and one tried kicking another one in the head. Lucky for us, they calmed down right away. Almost made the killed by horse statistics!

So what percentage of people actually deal with horses/cows up close and personal vs up close and personal with bears? Probably 100,000 to 1.. might be actually higher. I believe that a up close and personal encounter with Mr Ed or Bessy vs Smokey the bear will end much better.


It's like the statistic that shows you are more likely to be bitten by a Labrador retriever than a Pit bull... its because there are many more people up close and personal with Labs on a daily basis than Pits.


HOLLYWOOD
hollywood8118 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2019, 08:53 AM   #53
Guru
 
twistedtree's Avatar
 
City: Gloucester, MA
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,515
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
Chris.. the word I got about 12 ga shotgun slugs was they were effective on smaller bears but on a larger charging bear, it may not even penetrate all the skin and fat to break a bone. Maybe, maybe not.



If not, now you have a pissed off wounded bear coming at you. They hoped the next round of buckshot would blind then and get enough blood in their nostrils to affect their sense of smell. Again, not a guaranteed outcome.


That was the reason the shotgun was not considered a good defense weapon by the experts in my circles.

I have no direct experience shooting bears, but have read up a bunch on it in anticipation of cruising in brown and polar bear country.


First, big difference between the bears. Black bears are much smaller, so just because something will work on a black bear, don't think it will on one of the larger bears.


Second, with the exception of polar bears, they will do all they can to avoid you. Encounters happen because both you and the bear failed to detect the other. Making noise is your best defense.


Third, bears acclimated to humans, or worse, who have gotten a taste of human food and garbage, are the dangerous ones. Because they have a taste, the seek out rather than avoid humans - not because they want to eat the humans, but because they are a marker for food and garbage. This leads to encounters that would otherwise be actively avoided by the bears. In the park systems, the bears that have to be killed are inevitably the ones that have become acclimated to humans.


Fourth, unlike other bears who will avoid you, polar bears will hunt you. You are food to them, with no special training required. This is why carrying a rifle is mandatory in many areas where there are polar bears.


Svalbard is one example location where there are a lot of polar bears, and where it's illegal to NOT carry a high powered rifle. Their guidelines are quite interesting to read, and echo what psneeld has said. Shotguns are unacceptable, period. Same with hand guns, no matter how Dirty-Harry it is. And only the most powerful rifles are accepted. Apparently you need BOTH a big charge with a lot of power, AND a smaller caliber bullet to concentrate the energy enough to actually penetrate. Things like shotgun slugs and lower powered rifles will literally bounce off the skull. I seem to recall that a 30-06 was marginally acceptable.



Although the rifle carry laws are for polar bears, the anatomy and size of brown bears, especially coastal brown bears, are similar to polar bears. So I think it's reasonable to apply the same fire arms guidelines. But unless you are in polar bear territory, I think a set of bells, chitter chatter, and bear spray are a much better solution.
__________________
www.MVTanglewood.com
twistedtree is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2019, 08:58 AM   #54
Guru
 
TDunn's Avatar
 
City: Maine Coast
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Tortuga
Vessel Model: Nunes Brothers Raised Deck Cruiser
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 799
If you decide to take a gun into Canada and do it legally there is one other consideration. What happens if you shoot a bear? When I was in grad school at the University of Alberta I had a friend doing research in the arctic. He had a high powered rifle in camp in case of polar bear attacks. After three years up there they had a polar bear come into their camp and he shot it. Despite calling in immediately to the appropriate authorities, who came to the camp by helicopter and verified that the bear was actually in a tent (or what was left of a tent after the bear decided to go inside) when it was shot, my friend had literally years of trouble with the RCMP and federal and territorial fish and wildlife after the bear shooting. It was bad enough that he couldn't get a permit to go back to the arctic for a couple of years and then was not allowed to have a gun in camp.
TDunn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2019, 09:13 AM   #55
Guru
 
MurrayM's Avatar
 
City: Kitimat, North Coast BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Badger
Vessel Model: 30' Sundowner Tug
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,423
I get the statistics, but just like people get excited they might actually win the lottery next time they buy a ticket, being killed by a bear is a pretty remote possibility...like being killed by a shark is a remote possibility but is so spectacularly awful the mind lingers on potential details and makes for attention grabbing news. Don't get me wrong, I have full respect for the beasts and avoid them and their seasonal habitats as best I can, but it doesn't stop me from wandering around the in bush when we anchor.

As a letter carrier I'm more concerned about the pit bull stats posted earlier, and my route parallels a salmon spawning stream where I've seen grizzly crap on the road so fresh there was juice running out and flies hadn't found it yet. (I snap the elastic band on the bundle of letters I carry to make the branch snapping sound...worked on a guy one day who scooted into his house because he thought a bear was coming into his yard, so it works on people too).

I got attacked by two big pit bulls once on my route. They came at me full blast; no hesitation, no stopping to put on a show of aggression and were about 30' apart. I was worried about what might happen if one got behind me and they started working as a team to take me down, so the pepper spray came out.

I sprayed the first one and it just stopped, stared me in the eyes for about a second without flinching, blinking, coughing, or wheezing, then turned around and trotted home. When I sprayed the second one it wheeled instantly and was off like a shot, as dogs normally do.

That first pit bull was the gnarliest, toughest dog I've ever seen to not even show the slightest response, other than stopping its attack, to getting a full shot of pepper spray in the face. Yup, pit bulls concern me more!
__________________
"The most interesting path between two points is not a straight line" Murray Minchin
MurrayM is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2019, 09:41 AM   #56
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 18,643
QUOTE=TDunn;757256]If you decide to take a gun into Canada and do it legally there is one other consideration. What happens if you shoot a bear? When I was in grad school at the University of Alberta I had a friend doing research in the arctic. He had a high powered rifle in camp in case of polar bear attacks. After three years up there they had a polar bear come into their camp and he shot it. Despite calling in immediately to the appropriate authorities, who came to the camp by helicopter and verified that the bear was actually in a tent (or what was left of a tent after the bear decided to go inside) when it was shot, my friend had literally years of trouble with the RCMP and federal and territorial fish and wildlife after the bear shooting. It was bad enough that he couldn't get a permit to go back to the arctic for a couple of years and then was not allowed to have a gun in camp.[/QUOTE]


I guess better dead than years trouble with RCMP.
Plus that's one story like everyone has.
I an guessing there are proceedures that if followed (generally) avoid that trouble....there were, can't say for sure now.


From Alaskan F&G website

"These may be brought temporarily into Canada for sporting or hunting use during hunting season, use in competitions, in-transit movement through Canada, or personal protection against wildlife in remote areas of Canada. Anyone wishing to bring hunting rifles into Canada must be at least 18 years old; properly store the firearm for transport; and follow the declaration requirements."
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2019, 10:07 AM   #57
Guru
 
Group9's Avatar
 
City: Bay Saint Louis, Mississippi, (or where the anchor drops)
Country: USA
Vessel Model: 1973 42 Bertram MY
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lepke View Post
Bear Bangers - Bears are known to attack hunters after hearing a shot. They've learned to associate a gunshot with fresh meat.

Pit Bull attacks in 2018 in the US and Canada. In the first 8.5 months there were 23 deaths. I'd say there were fewer bear attacks with fewer fatalities.
Considering how many times we had too shoot pit bulls for self protection in my job, that statistic is not that comforting.

And, my brother, A CPA, was forced to shoot one in his yard last year in self defense.

Statistics are great, until you become one. Most people never have heart attacks. But, who would be willing to sign away their right to a defibrillator based on those odds?
__________________
Living life at one quarter speed.
Group9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2019, 02:48 PM   #58
Guru
 
twistedtree's Avatar
 
City: Gloucester, MA
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,515
I have a correction to make. I miss-remembered the Svalbard guidelines.


Recommendations is for a rifle with a minimum of a .308 or 30-06 with expanding bullets. But that's a bit moot since they also specify the minimum bullet mass and impact energy at 100m. None of the 308 loads meet the requirement, and only one of the 30-06 loads meets it. 375 H&H is what you need.



A shotgun is a second choice, but must have capacity for at least 4 shots, and you need to use rifled slugs. By implication, it will take all 4 slugs to stop the bear.


Handguns are also allowed, but not encouraged. Again minimum specs are provided, including .44 as the minimum caliber. Only the very largest 44 Remington magnum load meets the spec. None of the 45s meet the requirement. A 480 Ruger or a 500 S&W would do.


In other words, bring a cannon, or stay away from the bears.
__________________
www.MVTanglewood.com
twistedtree is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2019, 04:38 PM   #59
Guru
 
dhays's Avatar
 
City: Gig Harbor
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 7,268
I've had plenty of experience with black bear in the back country. They don't worry me. (altogether different with bears that have been habituated to the presence of humans).


From a boat, I won't beach a dinghy where a bear is. When hiking from the dinghy, I just make sure that I make a lot of vocal noise, "hey bear!" etc... I may look foolish hollering "hey bear!" but since no one else is around to hear me I don't really care. Bears in the wild don't want my company and will likely have moved off before I know there are there.


When I have encountered black bear, it is just a matter of talking quietly as I move in the opposite direction that they are. Not an issue.
__________________
Regards,

Dave
SPOT page
dhays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2019, 07:10 PM   #60
Guru
 
Ken E.'s Avatar
 
City: Bellingham WA
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Hatt Trick
Vessel Model: 45' Hatteras Convertible
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 701
Quote:
Originally Posted by twistedtree View Post


Handguns are also allowed, but not encouraged. Again minimum specs are provided, including .44 as the minimum caliber. Only the very largest 44 Remington magnum load meets the spec. None of the 45s meet the requirement. A 480 Ruger or a 500 S&W would do.

In other words, bring a cannon, or stay away from the bears.
TT, I keep a revolver in SE AK, stored with a FFL friend. This arrangement eliminates the need of shipping it up there each summer and it never enters Canada. The gun is a Ruger .44 magnum, but its primary role is to dispatch big halibut with .44 special loads, much tamer than magnum rounds. I do carry this gun on shore in a chest holster if there are bears in the area, especially with cubs. For these forays, I use .44 magnum heavy loads with 305 grain hardcast slugs. These are punishing to shoot, but if the chips are down, I won't notice. This round was recommended to me by a guide friend in Idaho, where there are plenty of both black and brown bears.
__________________

__________________
Ken on Hatt Trick
Ken E. is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012