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Old 06-05-2016, 11:48 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
BC pilot boat bringing pilot to board for inland passage:



Seems like all pilot boats approach a ship's port side.
Nice shot Mark.
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Old 06-05-2016, 11:59 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayfarer View Post
Not at all. As others have said, the pilot is merely an advisor. The captain is in command, and has every right to overrule the pilot if he thinks he needs to. The pilot may be at the controls or shouting commands, but the captain is ultimately responsible for the vessel.
This discussion brought to mind a certain rather controversial happening in NZ waters when I still lived there, added to by the fact it was also highlighted again in a recent TV doco called Coast New Zealand, commentated by that long-haired Scotsman called Neill Oliver, who has done other 'Coasts' all round the world. (The link at the bottom is more factual, and loads faster. This top one is more about the liner and the people)

https://www.nzonscreen.com/title/des...-disaster-2008

The issue of who was really in charge, and who carried the ultimate responsibility was one of great interest at the time, because in the enquiry, the pilot took the blame, as the captain was not even on the bridge at the time, or so it was claimed. But we were expected to believe that a pilot who had been guiding ships in and out of one of the trickiest maritime areas you could find, all his working life, knowingly took a ship of that size inside the Cape Jackson lighthouse, hitting the submerged reef the lighthouse was there to warn of. He knew it was only a small boat channel. Why would you do that..?

It finally sank in a nearby bay, where they ran her aground, essentially, while a local armada of small boats (bit like Dunkirk it was),came and took the passengers and crew off, and with just one life lost, and it is now one of the world's best dive wrecks, incidentally. Where else would you get an intact cruise liner on her side in just 15 metres down..?

The word on the street was that the pilot took the blame because the captain would have been possibly executed, (it was during the cold war still), whereas the pilot at most lost rank and reputation, and there was (thought to be) surveillance equipment inside as well. The suspected reason why one 'engineer' died - going back down to destroy this before she went down it was claimed.

As it happened if you feel motivated to follow the link, the captain could not then be charged because "due to an 'oversight", NZ piloting foreign vessels could not be charged for negligence - since changed - but kinda convenient..? He remained a working captain & pilot until his retirement????

It is a very interesting incident whichever way you look at it, conspiracy theories or not. It is however hard to believe the pilot would do what it was alleged he did. When I was doing my boatmaster course in about 1983, the Napier harbour pilot who was our instructor, used to use that exact stretch of Cook Strait as the chart we did most of our exercises from, precisely because it packed so many navigation dangers into one chart. Even WE amateurs knew you did not take a large vessel inside the Cape Jackson lighthouse for heaven's sake.
Take a look...

Lermontov sinking still lures conspiracy buffs - National - NZ Herald News
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Old 06-08-2016, 11:01 AM   #43
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I've got a birds eye view of the damage pier, and repair work has commenced as of this AM. Other than the cat walk being knocked down, it visually all looks fine. But my wife says she read that the whole structure moved some distance.

By the way, these piers are NOT delicate. I think someone said they looked small in the video, and they do. But the pilings are at least 3' diameter steel pipes, and possible even 4'. And there are either 4 or 5 angled pilings making up each pier.
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Old 06-08-2016, 01:11 PM   #44
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5 pilings doesn't sound like much to me...often the bump and go dolphins around bridges and ferry terminals will have 15-20 or more.

Sure, most of the time around here they are wood...but I am guessing it's not the strength of the pilings but the footprint to absorb the bang.

For a huge cruising ship, laying alongside is one thing, banging into a dolphin or two mostly with just 5 pilings....gotta say I could see the whole dolphin laying at an angle afterwards.
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Old 06-08-2016, 02:33 PM   #45
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Maybe I'll wonder over and ask the guys working on it. But from what I've read and am seeing, I think the gangway may be the largest casualty. They just craned that out of the water a couple of hours ago. It looked straight and intact, though maybe 10-20% of the decking was missing, presumably having popped off with the impact.

BTW, the repair contract calls for completion by July 7th.
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Old 06-08-2016, 04:40 PM   #46
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I talked to the Harbor Master. They are commandeering the float that I was on for lightering in from anchored cruise ships. They lost over 400' of dock space due to the accident, and now need more for lightering, so there is quite the scramble afoot here and I was asked to move.

While I had him on the phone, I asked about the details of the damage. The pilings themselves are all OK. They are 4' in diameter, 1" think steel pipes, so pretty strong. They flexed, but the platforms on top that tie them all together suffered significant weld joint failure. So they all need to be x-rayed and re-welded as needed. And of course the cat walk needs to be fixed and reattached. There happened to be a large marine construction crew anchored nearby waiting for a job that starts next month, so they were able to start right away which was very fortunate.

He said the pilings are 200' feet long, with a water depth of 100' and 50' sunk into the bedrock. So I gather 50' above the water line, which looks about right. I suspect there long length was an aiding factor in their ability to flex and spring back without permanent damage. He said there had been 18" of deflection at the mud line.

This report live, from your correspondent on scene.....
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Old 06-08-2016, 04:50 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twistedtree View Post
I talked to the Harbor Master. They are commandeering the float that I was on for lightering in from anchored cruise ships. They lost over 400' of dock space due to the accident, and now need more for lightering, so there is quite the scramble afoot here and I was asked to move.?..............

cut for space............

water depth of 100' and 50' sunk into the bedrock. So I gather 50' above the water line, which looks about right. I suspect there long length was an aiding factor in their ability to flex and spring back without permanent damage. He said there had been 18" of deflection at the mud line.

This report live, from your correspondent on scene.....
Thanks...always cool to hear the story fresh from on scene

The water being so much deeper than what I am used to obviously requires significantly different engineering...just wondering what they are really designed to take. A pretty good shot as it sounds...
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Old 06-08-2016, 04:57 PM   #48
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I was reading an owner's manual for a MAN 1100 HP V-12 diesel and one of the suggested uses for that engine was "BOW THRUSTER". They might have needed the 1850 hp engines instead for that thruster.
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Old 06-08-2016, 06:47 PM   #49
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Another View of the Incident from City Floats (with lots of photos)

We were docked here at city floats directly facing Berth 3 when it happened, and we took a bunch of photos during the mayhem: Brace Yourself! Riveted

(Hi to Tanglewood...we're on the next dock over from you! -- And thanks for the more info!)

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Old 06-08-2016, 08:32 PM   #50
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In my experience, it's not unusual for the captain to avoid a destination when conditions are unsuitable for docking or tendering, or to avoid a storm. This has happened to us at least four times during 30 cruises. The Falkland Islands is a notorious example. Met a couple whose five cruse-ship attempts to visit the islands were all vetoed by the captain due to sea conditions.
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Old 06-08-2016, 09:16 PM   #51
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In my experience, it's not unusual for the captain to avoid a destination when conditions are unsuitable for docking or tendering, or to avoid a storm. This has happened to us at least four times during 30 cruises. The Falkland Islands is a notorious example. Met a couple whose five cruse-ship attempts to visit the islands were all vetoed by the captain due to sea conditions.
It reminds us all that there are conditions and situations that are risky and we're better off to try Plan B.
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Old 06-09-2016, 12:04 AM   #52
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It will be interesting to hear more about exactly what went wrong. The thrusters were working. That part is clear. But why was the ship going so fast? I don't understand that, and know that at least on my boat, the faster you are going, the more ineffective the thrusters become. The water wants to flow by the hull rather than go through the thruster tube.
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