Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-01-2018, 08:50 AM   #1
Guru
 
cardude01's Avatar
 
City: Victoria TX
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Bijou
Vessel Model: 2008 Island Packet steadysailer
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,148
Crossing bars with breaking waves?

Iím so glad I donít boat in an area where I would have to cross a bar regularly. This kind of stuff would scare me to death in my slow boat.

The prudent thing to do is not to attempt a bar crossing in conditions like this obviously, but I suppose for a smaller boat staying out at sea until the tide changes may not be an option?

The closest Gulf inlet I have on Longboat Key (Longboat Pass) has breaking waves all around it on many days it seems, and Iíve been too sacred to try it. I want to test it out with someone who has experience first.

https://youtu.be/9lsAnmnFPIo
__________________
Advertisement

cardude01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2018, 10:21 AM   #2
Guru
 
MurrayM's Avatar
 
City: Kitimat, North Coast BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Badger
Vessel Model: 30' Sundowner Tug
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,661
Yup...gnarly stuff.

If I lived in such an area and had a boat that wasn't fast enough to stay on the backs of waves, I'd get me one of these (after ensuring cockpit drainage was up to the job and the aft door was strong enough) https://www.burkemarine.com.au/pages/seabrake
__________________

__________________
"The most interesting path between two points is not a straight line" Murray Minchin
MurrayM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2018, 10:50 AM   #3
Guru
 
MurrayM's Avatar
 
City: Kitimat, North Coast BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Badger
Vessel Model: 30' Sundowner Tug
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,661
Over the top, hokey, poor quality video:

__________________
"The most interesting path between two points is not a straight line" Murray Minchin
MurrayM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2018, 11:14 AM   #4
Guru
 
High Wire's Avatar
 
City: Cape May, NJ and Englewood, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Irish Lady
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,698
Easy. Go somewhere else. If you have to go through breakers all of the time your luck will run out one day just like those guys in the video.
__________________
Archie
1984 Monk 36 Hull #46
Currently in Cape May, NJ
High Wire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2018, 11:51 AM   #5
GFC
Guru
 
GFC's Avatar
 
City: Tri Cities, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Beachcomber
Vessel Model: Sea Ray 550 Sedan Bridge
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,534
Here's another NZ video that shows how to do it safely.

__________________
Mike and Tina
Beachcomber 1995 Sea Ray 550 Sedan Bridge
GFC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2018, 12:44 PM   #6
Guru
 
MurrayM's Avatar
 
City: Kitimat, North Coast BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Badger
Vessel Model: 30' Sundowner Tug
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,661
Quote:
Originally Posted by GFC View Post
Here's another NZ video that shows how to do it safely.
Good ifo, but their boat had the speed to stay on a waves back...many boats here don't. Overtaking waves, flat transoms, and slow vessel speeds make for surfing and broaching, which is where something like a Seabrake would come in handy.
__________________
"The most interesting path between two points is not a straight line" Murray Minchin
MurrayM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2018, 12:46 PM   #7
Guru
 
MurrayM's Avatar
 
City: Kitimat, North Coast BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Badger
Vessel Model: 30' Sundowner Tug
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,661
Patience is also handy:

__________________
"The most interesting path between two points is not a straight line" Murray Minchin
MurrayM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2018, 12:58 PM   #8
Guru
 
AusCan's Avatar
 
City: Adelaide
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Kokanee
Vessel Model: Cuddles 30 Pilot House Motor Sailer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,839
We only have one bar crossing in the area at the Murray River mouth. (Australia's largest river) I haven't had the guts to try it yet. I'd love to though, as there is 600 miles of navigable water if you can make it through the mouth.

The problem there is the channels change daily with the shifting sand and there is no permanent path through. The flow varies tremendously depending on rainfall and how much the irrigators are pulling off it. Boat traffic through the mouth is minimal, maybe one boat a week, and very rarely a full displacement boat. One day if I can get the local knowledge from the few that have done it, I may give it a go. My boat handles the surf better than most, but I still have concerns.
AusCan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2018, 01:40 PM   #9
Guru
 
cardude01's Avatar
 
City: Victoria TX
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Bijou
Vessel Model: 2008 Island Packet steadysailer
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,148
Quote:
Originally Posted by MurrayM View Post


Why in the world were these guys in the RIB trying to get out? Thatís insane.
cardude01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2018, 01:54 PM   #10
Guru
 
MurrayM's Avatar
 
City: Kitimat, North Coast BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Badger
Vessel Model: 30' Sundowner Tug
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,661
Quote:
Originally Posted by cardude01 View Post
Why in the world were these guys in the RIB trying to get out? Thatís insane.
I think the logo on the side is for a surf shop...on site fin replacement service?
__________________
"The most interesting path between two points is not a straight line" Murray Minchin
MurrayM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2018, 01:57 PM   #11
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,870
Quote:
Originally Posted by cardude01 View Post
Why in the world were these guys in the RIB trying to get out? Thatís insane.
Looks like they knew what they were doing.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2018, 02:36 PM   #12
Guru
 
cardude01's Avatar
 
City: Victoria TX
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Bijou
Vessel Model: 2008 Island Packet steadysailer
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,148
Yeah I guess they did, but damn, some of those breaking waves were really big.
cardude01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2018, 03:41 PM   #13
Member
 
Arafura II's Avatar
 
City: Coomera
Country: Australia
Vessel Model: Barry Hughes Millcraft custom timber cruiser
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 20
http://youtu.be/huhEWxW4XFE That's how the Kiwis do it.
Arafura II is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2018, 03:46 PM   #14
DDW
Guru
 
City: San Francisco
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 806
Surfers are often best at that. They understand wave sets.
DDW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2018, 04:52 PM   #15
Guru
 
MurrayM's Avatar
 
City: Kitimat, North Coast BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Badger
Vessel Model: 30' Sundowner Tug
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,661
What we noticed, back in our sea kayaking days, was that it's not easy to judge wave sets from the back before a surf landing.

Think I'd give it more than the suggested 20 minutes in our boat...

Those Kiwi's in that video are nuts, even if their holds were full of fish and out of ice. That river current looked to be 1/2 knot slower than their boat
__________________
"The most interesting path between two points is not a straight line" Murray Minchin
MurrayM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2018, 05:06 PM   #16
Guru
 
Benthic2's Avatar
 
City: Boston Area
Country: United States
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,461
Don't attempt to cross any bar when there are a dozen people shooting video of you as you approach it.
Benthic2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2018, 06:03 PM   #17
Guru
 
Fletcher500's Avatar
 
City: So-Cal
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Helmsman 43 PH
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 1,091
Our bars are tame compared to up north, but I have seen Oceanside and Mission Bay with legit 10 ft breakers. Been out there, well close, on an outrigger to check them out but would never consider taking the boat through anything too crazy.
Fletcher500 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2018, 06:49 PM   #18
Guru
 
South of Heaven's Avatar
 
City: Sharon, Ma
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Slow Lane
Vessel Model: 2005 Silverton 35 Motoryacht
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 919
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benthic2 View Post
Don't attempt to cross any bar when there are a dozen people shooting video of you as you approach it.

Haha! Exactly. The cameraman knows it's the law of averages. One boat is guaranteed to broach or do an insane hull slap.
__________________
Jason

2005 Silverton 35 Motoryacht
South of Heaven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2018, 09:16 AM   #19
Guru
 
MurrayM's Avatar
 
City: Kitimat, North Coast BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Badger
Vessel Model: 30' Sundowner Tug
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,661
Short quote from a Practical Sailor article about sea anchors (deployed from the bow to minimize being blown backwards in a storm) and drogues (trailed from the stern to reduce vessel speed and thereby reduce the chance of surfing and broaching).

Quote:
Tests conducted by the American Society of Naval Architects and Marine Engineers have proven that a boat running before waves is likely to broach when waves approach a height equivalent to 35% of its waterline length. Steadied by a drogue, however, a boat will withstand waves as high as 55% of waterline length. And there are other virtues to towing a drogue.

Most often boats lose control running off before heavy weather because they are going too fast. Leaping off the top of one wave into the back of the one in front will, sooner or later, present problems. Calming your pace so that you stop short of pitchpoling, get a grip on broaching, and put a stop to pounding can be a simple matter of towing a drogue. Most of those available have shown that they can cut top speeds in half.
https://www.practical-sailor.com/iss...es/4059-1.html

What worries me is how hard it might be to retrieve the drogue, especially if once through the bar the harbour is really small.

In our local case (long narrow mountainous channel funnelling onshore winds with an abrupt turn into the marina and a beach 200' downwind) if a drogue was used because of steep & short frequency waves, you'd have to start pulling the drogue in as you approach the marina in time to make the turn around the floating log breakwaters.

There has to be a better way...
__________________
"The most interesting path between two points is not a straight line" Murray Minchin
MurrayM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2018, 09:40 AM   #20
Guru
 
MurrayM's Avatar
 
City: Kitimat, North Coast BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Badger
Vessel Model: 30' Sundowner Tug
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,661
Short teaser quote from Yachting Magazine...good article

Quote:
It was going to be a wild ride. With the wind against the tide I could expect a wild confusion of heavy breaking seas coming in behind. With our modest speed these breaking crests would be overtaking us; combined with the shallow water on the bar, this suggested that there was a strong risk of broaching and capsizing. OK, we were in a self-righting lifeboat, but in the confines of a narrow channel there is not much time for a second chance before you get washed ashore where the boat will not self-right.

We could have stayed out at sea and waited for the conditions to improve in the morning. Not only was that not a very appealing prospect, but it went against the spirit of the test. Besides which, we had a secret weapon on board that in theory should allow us to survive the ordeal: a drogue, which these slow lifeboats carry for use in just these conditions.
https://www.yachtingmagazine.com/using-drogue
__________________

__________________
"The most interesting path between two points is not a straight line" Murray Minchin
MurrayM is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:44 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012