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Old 07-27-2011, 06:10 PM   #1
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Credit where credit is due regarding Rocna

When Rocna moved their anchor production to China, at some point they began using a much lower grade of steel in the shanks of their product than the inventor, Peter Smith, insisted was critical to functionality and safety.* Rocna denied that this had happened, even though anchors were reported to be bending immediately after the production shift, beginning sometime in 2009.*

West Marine became aware of this indirectly through testing of anchors by individuals, as well as by Manson anchors - a competitor to Rocna - which proved that Rocna was simply lying when asked about the problem.* To West Marine's great credit, they are issuing the following communication to all customers who purchased Rocnas from them, extending their 'no hassle' guarantee for any reason to purchasers of this defective product:

*
PRODUCT SPECIFICATION NOTICE: *ROCNA ANCHORS

*
Dear Valued West Marine Customer,************************************************** ****************** ****************************************** Date: July 28, 2011
*One of our suppliers, Rocna, recently notified us that beginning in 2010, their anchors (with the model numbers listed below) were manufactured using a different, weaker grade of steel compared to that published on the Rocna website at the time and that had been previously published in West Marine catalogs. West Marine was unaware of the change in the grade of steel from that indicated on Rocnas website, and West Marine did not publish exact specifications (either in our catalogs, or on the product packaging) at the time, or since.* However, we felt that we should communicate the fact that this information was different so that you are fully informed about the products you purchase from West Marine.
In West Marines view, it is certainly a bummer that Rocna produced anchors with steel of a lesser grade than that called for on their website and that had been previously published.* For further information posted by Rocna about its anchors, including independent testing and certification results, please visit Rocnas webite at: www.rocna.com/WMupdate, as we believe Rocna can better answer your questions regarding production, standards and testing of these products than West Marine Associates in our Stores or Call Centers.* Additionally, you may email Rocna directly at support@rocna.com with any specific questions you may have that are not addressed in the information contained on Rocnas website.* Rocna has assured us that they will provide whatever level of support and information you need to answer any questions or concerns you might have.*
We want to make sure you are happy with the products you purchase from West Marine.* After you have visited the Rocna website, and had any questions answered by their Support Team, if you feel your Rocna anchor does not meet your expectation, our No Hassle Guarantee assures you are protected and you may return your Rocna anchor to us for a refund.***********
Thank you and good boating,
West Marine

Rocnas stated position on the matter remains typically less than honest.* First, to divert attention from the simple fact that their anchors are no longer made to the original specifcations, they have subjected a Rocna to a straight pull and are touting the test results that show that in a straight pull, their anchor did not deform until after 7/16" G4 chain would break, as well as enduring pull pressure that exceeds RINA's Super High Hold Power specifications.* Of course, the problem with the cheaper steel used by Rocna (without notifying anyone of the change) is with side loading, not a straight pull.* One need not wonder why they didn't test side loading, because they are continuing to make their product out of substandard steel, at least based on their own specifications.* And, the SHHP specification Rocna says it exceeds relates to anchors actually anchoring in a sea bed, not locked in a vise on a test apparatus.* A 2" piece of rebar would probably test higher in a straight pull than the Rocna did, but bend even easier in a side load situation, which of course is where the problem manifests itself.

And hilariously, Rocna is now asserting that they can't tell anyone about what steel grade that they are now using on the basis that it is a trade secret, even though in the past they have touted using high strength Bisalloy 80 in their shanks (even when they weren't).* Now it's a trade secret.

In any case, WM is a great company, standing behind their customers who were duped apparently just as they were.* My congratulations to them for being proactive in proctecting those customer's interest.
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Old 07-28-2011, 07:18 AM   #2
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Credit where credit is due regarding Rocna

Quote:
Delfin wrote:
In any case, WM is a great company, standing behind their customers who were duped apparently just as they were.* My congratulations to them for being proactive in proctecting those customer's interest.
*I agree.*

The only caveat is that some of the managers in their stores can be let us say "be miss informed as to the company policies" or should we say "interpret them to their understanding" and you may have to get a bit assertive with them.* This seems to be a problem when a new person is upgraded to store manager and they become more protective of the company money as if it were their own.

The only other problem I have with the company is their tendency to over charge for most*everything.* This would not be so bad if it was just a few bucks but in*some cases it is*as much as 50% or*more then the suggested retail by the manufacturer of the product.

Price matching just makes it worse.* That's like saying "I'm gonna try and over charge you but if you catch me I won't".* Not a warm fuzzy feeling.



*


-- Edited by JD on Thursday 28th of July 2011 07:29:46 AM
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Old 07-28-2011, 07:58 AM   #3
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RE: Credit where credit is due regarding Rocna

Good job Delfin in helping to blow the whistle on these guys from Rocna. Eric deserves kudos too for unrelentingly questioning anchor design in the face of the Rocna "experts" on this and other forums.*

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Old 07-28-2011, 08:26 AM   #4
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RE: Credit where credit is due regarding Rocna

Agreed on Eric - very thoughtful real world analysis that has added to the useful, as opposed to theoretical, knowledge about anchor design.

Frankly what I find most fascinating about this situation is that the folks running Rocna seem incapable of acting honestly, even when that would be in their interest.* Think Johnson & Johnson during the Tylenol scare arguing that no tampering occurred, but if it did, arguing that arsenic is good for you, and that once that was proved to be false telling you that they can't deny or affirm that arsenic is in their product because it's a trade secret.

Bizarre.

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Old 07-28-2011, 08:54 AM   #5
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RE: Credit where credit is due regarding Rocna

So what will Fisheries Supply and other non West Marine stores do with their Rocna inventory?*

The problem I have with Rocna and other excessively long shank designs (in comparison to the Bruce) is the redo/extension of*my bow roller setup for the same let alone a heavier weight. Plus, with steel quality concerns, *the longer shank exacerbates the bending moment issues.

*

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Old 07-28-2011, 09:57 AM   #6
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RE: Credit where credit is due regarding Rocna

Interesting question.* Fisheries modified their promo information on their site removing the false claims Rocna had been making with regard to using 800 mPA steel.* In comparing the Rocna with the Manson, both have equivalent performance, but the Manson has been less expensive than the Rocna and is made out of high strength steel.* So my guess is that Rocna will be discounted to move it out, and restocked on a just in time basis.

In fact, if you go to the Fisheries site, they are discounting Rocnas right now, with the result that the Manson is now a little more expensive than an equivalent Rocna.* Nothing wrong with Rocna selling a less well engineered product for less money than a better engineered product.* That seems to be what they want to manufacture, and there is always a market for cheap and low end, just as there is for expensive and high end.*
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Old 07-28-2011, 10:53 PM   #7
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RE: Credit where credit is due regarding Rocna

Thank you Tom and Carl for the kind words. And I wish I had more testing done on the XYZ but I just have'nt been doing that much boating. Our last trip was to Ketchikan and we don't anchor out there. The XYZ has set well at short scope and held but I've only anchored in light winds. Who knows how long it will be before a good 50 knot gale will befall us while at anchor. The XYZ guy wands me to get a 300hp fish boat and try to pull the XYZ out but fishermen want to fish fish fish. I don't want to use my Brait rode either. But if it's a short shank you want go w the XYZ. It's the only one.
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Old 07-31-2011, 08:47 AM   #8
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RE: Credit where credit is due regarding Rocna

Excellent investigative work Delfin.
The over-hyped, often rabid support of this product was distasteful at best.
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