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Old 06-02-2018, 07:59 PM   #21
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I concur with Willy so much work for so little gain and complicated approaches to problems that dont exist only cause bigger problem in time. All those pipes and valves and things just to drain a few liters of oil ???
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Old 06-02-2018, 08:51 PM   #22
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Its like why not, if you can, go for it, if your able. I like the challenge, it is entertaining. I like the idea of easier oil changes.

I may only use 3 valves, run a temporary 1/2 inch vinyl tube over the salon floor to the gen, instead of a permanent install of a hose. On the gen, I have easy access to the oil pan, the filler cap is low down.
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Old 06-02-2018, 08:55 PM   #23
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Sdowney, glad you've settled on 1/2" hose. Your comment about the oil lubricating the pump so it doesnt burn up is a little off base. The reason a pump burns up with small hoses on the suction is that you will be drawing too much of a vacuum at the pump inlet and that will cause internal cavitation which will cause the impeller and housing to fail.
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Old 06-02-2018, 09:02 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by sdowney717 View Post
Its like why not, if you can, go for it, if your able. I like the challenge, it is entertaining. I like the idea of easier oil changes.

I may only use 3 valves, run a temporary 1/2 inch vinyl tube over the salon floor to the gen, instead of a permanent install of a hose. On the gen, I have easy access to the oil pan, the filler cap is low down.







Hot oil and vinyl tube and fittings ? that's going to be fun
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Old 06-02-2018, 09:07 PM   #25
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Hot oil and vinyl tube and fittings ? that's going to be fun
If it does not work out running to the gen, I can do something different. The pump worked well even on room temp oil. My gen is way back under the aft deck hatch.

Here it is. It wont be permanently in use.https://www.lowes.com/pd/EASTMAN-5-8...ing/1000365035

Other idea for gen, I have lots of 1/2 inch copper pipe and the softer annealed copper tube, that would need to go into the bilge and run to gen.

The PVC hose might harden-get stiff with oil usage.
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Old 06-08-2018, 09:30 PM   #26
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If you want a ~free vacuum source and have an electric [or other] motor on hand I saw a clever idea on a Japanese portable firefighting unit.
They used a brake vacuum vane pump from a diesel car alternator and a cam to tighten the drive belt with a small cup mounted above the pump for the pump lube oil, worked a charm and will last 100 years.
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Old 06-08-2018, 10:38 PM   #27
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Greetings,
Slight thread drift alert:
Mr. DNZ. Could you elaborate somewhat on the brake vacuum pump. It sounds interesting but I have no idea what you're talking about.


Mr. 717. I wish you the best of success but I wonder how firm that plastic tubing will remain when in contact with hot oil. It may soften to the point of collapse on the suction side.

I worked with that type of tubing whilst "in the lab" and to soften it enough to slip over a pipe/hose nipple I simply soaked it in hot tap water and it got plenty soft. Probably not much over 150F. Wear your safety equipment.


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Old 06-09-2018, 06:56 AM   #28
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Greetings,
Slight thread drift alert:
Mr. DNZ. Could you elaborate somewhat on the brake vacuum pump. It sounds interesting but I have no idea what you're talking about.


Mr. 717. I wish you the best of success but I wonder how firm that plastic tubing will remain when in contact with hot oil. It may soften to the point of collapse on the suction side.

I worked with that type of tubing whilst "in the lab" and to soften it enough to slip over a pipe/hose nipple I simply soaked it in hot tap water and it got plenty soft. Probably not much over 150F. Wear your safety equipment.


Running to the rear gen, I found it will be easy enough to slip in about 6 or 7 foot of 1/2" soft bendable copper pipe. My plan is to not run the engines till oil is full hot, just warm them up. On end of copper pipe will clamp a short section of that vinyl PVC cheap hose and can open the oil fill which has the oil level sitting an inch below that on this Onan generator. Stick tube end in and have it sucked out.
This gen has an old style can filter with a lid. So when I pull off the lid, the permanent filter can retains some oil, I can drop the tube in there and suck it dry. It does not leak oil out of that bypass filter when you unscrew the top, but it leaves some left in the canister which I would like to remove.

I have same bypass oil filters on propulsion engines, (main filters are screw on), so same idea for them. Plus someday will desire to suck oil from velvet drives. I recently looked at the oil in them, and it looks like new, and that oil is at least 8 yrs old. So also need a hose for that.

I am less worried about hose collapsing than maybe making a mess. Vinyl hose is cheaper than buying more of that oil rated hose. I have read the vinyl hose may harden after exposure to oil over time.

Still waiting on parts from China, (304 SS pipe nipples and one 1/2 inch tee). Some may not get here till middle of July.

The Amazon valves and hose are real good quality.
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Old 06-09-2018, 07:28 AM   #29
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I am thinking just one more time with the topsider oil extractor, BUT, it's hand pump failed. The leather cup rotted... , I always hated the thing. So I cut a large metal washer from an old fuse panel, put an HVAC type valve screwed in, (had to split a nut in half to hold in the valve to the metal plate). And can use my HVAC pump to create the vacuum.

I actually had two of these, and the vacuum pump failed on both, I think they are not very well made. So this gives me two large 2 gallon containers for used oil. The electric vacuum pump has been very reliable.

I can also still use this for the lawn mowers, etc...
And this thing always had a piece of vinyl hose, although 5/16 or 3/8 not 1/2 but never collapsed.

Sometime in July, I will post a picture of the piping manifold and pump setup.
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Old 06-23-2018, 06:56 PM   #30
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Finally got all the bits and pieces, but don't yet have the time to install and configure it.

This is the basic manifold design. The rear copper tube will extend back 8 feet to the gen. Two valves for each engine, and a third for sucking trans fluid or whatever you want. basically this will lay on top of the stringer.

Front fitting will have a short section of hose to the suction pump.
Someday I might even play around with reversing pump rotation with an on-off-on double pole switch to also fill the sumps, if I ever feel like I got nothing better to do.

The shiny silver bits are 304 SS from Ebay seller. the short nipples were excelently made, the tee, is overcut slightly, the nipples bottom out too far into the tee, so they overcut the thread to deeply, but it will be ok. That tee was $2, and the ss nipples were $5 for all five pieces. Sometimes I wonder if some sellers are selling rejects, like they did not meet some standard. But for this no pressure app, not a problem. And I will use the Permatek #2 sealer on all the joints.

So many things happening are getting in the way of the boating.
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Old 06-27-2018, 06:55 PM   #31
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Those fittings make me very nervous. They are not fitting into the tee's properly. A proper npt fitting should screw into its mating fitting 1-1/2 to 3 turns by hand before you tighten with a wrench. You have some with the fitting almost bottomed out on one side and barely in on the other side. I would be willing to guess that you have a combination of threads here. Npt, sae, jic, bsp, and various metrics. (Japan and Germany use different metric standards as do Caterpillar, Komatsu, Hitachi and many other machine manufacturers.)
Before you hook this up you should cap off each end and put an air compressor on one side and pressurize the whole thing to 100 psi. You're liable to find yourself with a bilge full of oil or worse, a burned up engine.
Even if it holds pressure, you may someday want to sell you boat and a surveyor would have some comments on this set up.
For what its worth, You should go to a plumbing supply or better yet a hydraulic fitting company and get the proper parts.
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Old 06-27-2018, 07:06 PM   #32
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Also as i looked at one of your earlier posts, why did you go to China for your fittings. there are probably a dozen very good hydraulic fitting suppliers withing a few miles of where you keep your boat and for $20 to $30 you could get everything you need and know that it would not leak. Don't do it over the phone, just take what you have into the sales counter and let them put something together for you.
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Old 06-27-2018, 08:30 PM   #33
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Also as i looked at one of your earlier posts, why did you go to China for your fittings. there are probably a dozen very good hydraulic fitting suppliers withing a few miles of where you keep your boat and for $20 to $30 you could get everything you need and know that it would not leak. Don't do it over the phone, just take what you have into the sales counter and let them put something together for you.
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It is all NPT, and I know that SS chinese tee was overcut. I can torgue it tight and seal it just fine using Permatex #2.

I test fit at the boat and it sits fine on top the stringer. Plan to attach with some electrical pipe clamps screwed on.

Got to remember there is no hydraulic oil pressure on any of these fittings.

Resale value is not even a consideration whatsoever for me. When I got this boat I knew at the time very few people would want it, but I enjoy it.
Over the years I totally rebuilt much of this wood boat hull, rebuilt both engines, one velvet drive. It is a hobby boat to keep me busy.

Took my mid 80's parents just yesterday and my grandkids and daughter out for a 5 hour trip. We had a great time. We use the boat as a picnic boat. Kids love to jump off and go swimming. It is nice to get the family all together. I was a little worried about my parents getting onto the boat, the tide was just perfect so an almost flat step on to the boat from the finger pier. 5 hours later, an almost flat step off the boat. Like an amazing miracle, we did not plan that and it just worked out fine. There are some tides, I can barely get on and off the boat.
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Old 07-16-2018, 04:42 PM   #34
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Spent some time connecting all the manifold fittings together. I used Permatek #1 sealer.

Motor is attached. I plan to use a 3/4 PVC pipe clamp to hold down the valves.
First valve goes to port motor, second to starboard, third to a loose hose for trans, etc..., fourth will head back rearward to gen and have a loose hose too.

A short section of hose to join pump to manifold, pump oil into a 5 gallon bucket. long hoses to fitting on the oil drain plugs of engines.

It all fits very well there.
Will take me a few months to eventually finish. This is low priority right now.
Getting access to the starboard motor's drain plug is going to be a reach for me.
Exhaust manifold makes it hard, may need to disconnect it from the head.
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Old 07-19-2018, 02:34 PM   #35
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If it hasn't been mentioned don't forget to add a hose for refilling from containers
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Old 07-19-2018, 04:43 PM   #36
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If it hasn't been mentioned don't forget to add a hose for refilling from containers
Pump only turns one way, if it was reversible, then you could pump oil back into the engines, which is an interesting idea. Would need to have an on-off-on DPDT switch wired into motor to flip the field brushes, which I dont know If I want to do that figuring it all out.

The system simply sucks oil from any of 4 places determined by which valve is open. Then the outflow is going to a 5 gallon bucket.

Refilling is simple enough, put funnel into oil fill and pour in the oil. It was always much harder to get the oil out.
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