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Old 06-16-2015, 04:01 PM   #41
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Greetings,
Mr. ks. "...30" of undercounter storage..." You nailed it, for me anyway. The one thing that is limited on pretty well every boat is storage. With a dirt cottage one always has the option of outbuildings. That being said, I wish I had just ONE small cabin extra to stow and store all my spares. 4' X 4' X 6'(H) would do it, rather than having "stuff" crammed where it will fit all over the boat. Ok, ok...I could probably pare my extras down some...But not much.
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Old 06-16-2015, 04:28 PM   #42
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I'm using the boat to encroach on Salt Spring Island, a seaborne cottage with moderate use, and my wife would prefer a clothes washer. I tend to run heavy boats that will nonetheless plane WOT to slice the chop, and I keep water, excess fuel, toolboxes, cannonballs etc. off if I can.

I guess I'm not running a true trawler, where weight is not an issue and you can have it all, if you're spry enough to slither among the conduits.
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Old 06-16-2015, 04:54 PM   #43
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We live on the boat full time but no dishwasher and we aren't camping. With just the 2 of us, it's not like we dirty a lot of dishes everyday.
Wifey B: You've obviously never met a cook like my hubby. Now we have more people on the boat but I'm talking like when it was just he and I at home. He would dirty like 3 plates and a couple of tongs and some other grill things and lots of forks and knives just preparing it. So let's like say he grilled two steaks, and we had some berries and a baked potato and some beans of some sort. I'll promise you we'd have a dishwasher full. That's 5 plates, 4 small bowls, 2 medium saucers for the potatoes, the pyrex he warmed the beans in, and at least 5 or so forks and knives plus who knows what else, but lots of dishes and wonderful food. That man knows his steaks. He chooses them almost as well as he does his women....
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Old 06-16-2015, 04:56 PM   #44
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I'm not a very good scientist, I will need more research, a bunch more.
Wifey B: You have a shower. Conduct your own research.
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Old 06-16-2015, 04:57 PM   #45
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Stopping at 2 or is this thread going beyond the normal slippage rate for you of "R" rated?
Wifey B: Me? Would 3 be or 4? We'll stop at 2.
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Old 06-16-2015, 05:24 PM   #46
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Exactly, we don't even have a dish strainer.

Put a towell onn the counter, and stack the dishes so they dry.

Personally the 30" of undercounter storage is much more valuable thhan the 15 minutes a day I spend washing the dishes.
Hahahaha we took out the oven and put in the dishwasher drawer. We use a microwave/ convection oven over the fridge as the only oven. I am actually quite satisfied with the storage in our galley and glad we did not sacrifice any storage for the D/W

Obviously a hot button issue for a lot of folks! I will say it will not run off the generator so if we're anchored out we may be forced to do some hand washing along the way, or use disposables. The hardships!
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Old 06-17-2015, 12:02 AM   #47
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I have a trash compactor that I could replace with a half width dishwasher when I remodel the galley one day. So far I don't really mind doing the dishes by hand. I will be living aboard starting in the fall. Time will tell.

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Old 06-17-2015, 06:39 AM   #48
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Perhaps there is an inverse relationship between a boat that could be considered a "cottage on the water" and seaworthiness. Maybe that's what the op is lamenting about.
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Old 06-17-2015, 06:52 AM   #49
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I have a trash compactor that I could replace with a half width dishwasher when I remodel the galley one day. So far I don't really mind doing the dishes by hand. I will be living aboard starting in the fall. Time will tell.

Richard
In my world...I'd rater have the trash compactor as it seems like the trash outpiles the dishes.

Don't be too hasty.
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Old 06-17-2015, 07:50 AM   #50
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More use of paper plates and the trash compactor becomes the dish washer.
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Old 06-17-2015, 08:32 AM   #51
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I have been making reference to the boat cottage ratio for some time. What I have noticed over the last few years is a strong trend toward the cottage end of the ratio in many production boats considered trawlers including long range open water use boats. Today I opened the June issue of Northwest Yachting magazine and found a full page add by Kadey Krogen Yachts. In large print NOT JUST SEAWORTHY BUT SHEWORTHY. and lower down in the add This is the boat she will say yes to. This for me certainly crystallizes where the trawler market is going. In order to sell boats to usually older couples the cottage package has to pull a possibly reluctant female over the line. Not a galley but a kitchen-not a head but a bathroom-not bunks but a bed room-not a place to sit but a living room with large picture windows. The less one is reminded they are on a boat the closer to the sales target. I am not saying that this is wrong but it does explain many of the design features and trends we see on newer boats. Do these things make a better boat? Not always but if that's what it takes to get out on the water so be it. For someone who just wants a good boat without all the sheworthy baggage it is going to get harder to find production models and custom boats are expensive and will have a shrinking market if sans the sheworthy stuff.
Just this morning ran across this subject thread.

Nicely worded Ed, and oh so true.

I should enjoy reading thru postings.
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Old 06-17-2015, 08:55 AM   #52
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Exactly, we don't even have a dish strainer.

Put a towell onn the counter, and stack the dishes so they dry.

Personally the 30" of undercounter storage is much more valuable thhan the 15 minutes a day I spend washing the dishes.
Add in the additional maintenance, water and power drain, and the fact that 2 people just can't make that big of a mess,....I would not have one
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Old 06-17-2015, 08:58 AM   #53
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I have a trash compactor that I could replace with a half width dishwasher when I remodel the galley one day. So far I don't really mind doing the dishes by hand. I will be living aboard starting in the fall. Time will tell.

Richard
Actually I think the trash compactor makes more sense on a vessel, if it came to a choice

( I see this opinion has already been expressed. I only came to it after the fact, as I was reading thru the postings in order they were posted)
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Old 06-17-2015, 09:06 AM   #54
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In my world...I'd rater have the trash compactor as it seems like the trash outpiles the dishes.

Don't be too hasty.


So true, and cruising you end up with bags on board looking for a shore side home.

Compactor WAY ahead of a DW. I have neither.
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Old 06-17-2015, 09:10 AM   #55
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Marketing

I discovered long ago when I was selling boats, how important it was to sell the wife, along with the husband on a new vessel.

Later as I got into designing I retained these thoughts. Here is a portion of 'my pitch' from my website
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Accommodations.
How might it appear as a waterfront real estate ad? "Fiberglass cottage, three bedrooms, two baths, large kitchen & dining area, big deck, wonderful views." Comfortable life onboard is designed around the extensive living space provided by the extra large saloon & cockpit areas. The main saloon is divided up into two large 'U' shaped, galley and dinette/seating areas, and without partitions between them. This provides a spacious open feeling to this area.

Including the galley in this social area is analogous to the situation at most land based home parties; the kitchen invariable becomes a center of the party (in catamaran terminology this is referred to as 'galley up').

The catamaran configuration is exceptionally adaptable at merging all these areas at one raised level which provides for a panoramic view of the yacht's surroundings. This single attribute is one I much admire about a cat. I truly disliked my old 47' ketch's 'basement saloon', where I was forced to either stand up or climb topsides to see what was going on outside. I can sit at anchor with a mornings coffee and watch all the wildlife, or duck in here while underway in nasty weather and still maintain a cautious watch.

Our navigation stations are conveniently close to the entrance to the cockpit and accessible to the large table of the dinette. It also provides another seat in this social area.

Just outback, the aft deck (the 'porch') becomes an extension of the main saloon with its abundant seating and stowable dining table. There are a variable host of the possibilities back here, and this area can be covered, either selectively by a pull out awning from the deckhouse roof extension, or permanently by a hardtop extension to this roof. I've shown a fishing chair option as remembered from that old Phil Rhodes design. It could just as easily be a dive center, etc., etc. That's the beauty of a Motor/Sailer. And this cockpit expanse is at the same level as the main saloon, and only a single step out a large accessible door.

One other virtue of the catamaran form is the stateroom arrangement. What other vessels in these size ranges could provide 3 to 4 double staterooms, to the exclusion of any saloon conversion, and do so in such a manner as to provide a privacy to those parties of either side of the vessel from one another, and from the occupants of the saloon. Wow! The 65' version even provides for two separate crew's quarters in the bows. The layout arrangements can be modified to fit an individual owner's requirements, but the basic premise was to locate all of the living areas (excluding crew) between the two major watertight bulkheads fore & aft, and isolated from the engine and mechanicals.
with photos Motor/Sailer Design Expedition Yacht
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Old 06-17-2015, 10:01 AM   #56
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Perhaps there is an inverse relationship between a boat that could be considered a "cottage on the water" and seaworthiness. Maybe that's what the op is lamenting about.
I believe that is exactly what the OP was referring to.

I also believe from a practical standpoint the "inverse relationship" does not exist.

Before anybody argues this point... I'm not talking absolutes here, I'm referring to practical applications.

In real life travels a "coastal cruiser" is just that. Its a boat that is designed to be operated along a coastline, with its open water limits being the accurate forecast capability of approx 72 hours. A boat in that kind of service gets to pick its weather, and not travel if its stormy.

If that boat is "cottage like" or "clorox bottle" or any of the other derogatory descriptive terms used, or if its all weather capable, is not relevant. All weather capability is just not needed because the captain gets to pick good weather to travel in.

I would argue that a less comfortable more ""salty" looking boat might be perceived as being more seaworthy, but that is just a perception to a large extent, if we are comparing similar hull types (SD for example). Just because a boat looks more "salty" does not mean that its performance is significantly different than a less "salty" looking design. That and again from a practical standpoint perceived seaworthiness is not relevant to Coastal Cruisers.

Passagemakers are a whole different breed altogether.
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Old 06-17-2015, 10:04 AM   #57
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So true, and cruising you end up with bags on board looking for a shore side home.

Compactor WAY ahead of a DW. I have neither.
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Old 06-17-2015, 10:34 AM   #58
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[QUOTE=ksanders;341525]I believe that is exactly what the OP was referring to.

I also believe from a practical standpoint the "inverse relationship" does not exist.

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A discussion which has no absolute answer because the perception of seaworthiness as well as cottage on the water is a personal one with different degrees depending on the person during the judging.

But Kevin is absolutely correct when it comes to such things that appearances can be deceiving.
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Old 06-17-2015, 10:44 AM   #59
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In my world...I'd rater have the trash compactor as it seems like the trash outpiles the dishes.

Don't be too hasty.
Thanks - you and others are singing the same song. If that's true then living aboard won't help me figure it out. Since I won't be having to hold onto trash for long periods. Another complication is recycling. These days I produce more recycling than landfill waste by at least a 2:1 margin. Do I put that in the compactor instead of landfill waste? When you go cruising it's normal to remove all the packaging that you can from goods before stowing them. That should reduce the recycling needs somewhat.

As for the dishwasher - it's supposedly more economical on water usage than washing by hand (when it's full).

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Old 06-17-2015, 10:49 AM   #60
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I believe that is exactly what the OP was referring to.

I also believe from a practical standpoint the "inverse relationship" does not exist.
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A discussion which has no absolute answer because the perception of seaworthiness as well as cottage on the water is a personal one with different degrees depending on the person during the judging.

But Kevin is absolutely correct when it comes to such things that appearances can be deceiving.
I like to think my KK54 qualifies as a "cottage on water" as well as a blue water cruiser. It even has a whirlpool bathtub

The only thing that it's lacking is a big flybridge for socializing on top underway. There is an upper helm but it's small and not surrounded by guest seating.

Richard
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