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Old 01-16-2012, 02:22 PM   #21
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RE: Costa Concordia

Last I heard the captain is behind bars, charged with leaving the ship early, and negligent homicide or their equivalent of it. The Costa line CEO is blaming the whole thing on human error by the captain.
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Old 01-16-2012, 04:15 PM   #22
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Costa Concordia

Quote:
Arctic Traveller wrote:
.If the ship was already on the bottom, or hard aground, would there be less chance of loss of life by ordering everyone off the ship, or would it be better to let the passengers work their way to the high side to wait for rescue while remaining dry?*
*Looking at the angle the ship settled at, the thought of a couple of thousand passengers clinging to the*port rail on a 45 degree angle conjures up the scene out of the movie Titanic where the frantic passengers climbed higher and higher to get away from the water, till they couldn't hold on any longer.

Surely these large cruise operators must/should have contingency plans for events such as this. It's a logistical exercise,how best to evacuate 3,000 people from a ship listing say 30 degrees.Will the lifeboats deploy etc.

As has been said when the sh**t hits the fan, you rather hope that's when the training kicks in.


-- Edited by Andy G on Monday 16th of January 2012 05:17:16 PM
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Old 01-17-2012, 04:10 AM   #23
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RE: Costa Concordia

As has been said when the sh**t hits the fan, you rather hope that's when the training kicks in.

Much of the 1000 "crew" is from old soviet captive states , they are paid to cook and clean , not work as trained seamen.
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Old 01-17-2012, 04:44 AM   #24
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RE: Costa Concordia

No idea what that ship cost, but you would have thought that the owners would spend some money on the HR side of the business, protecting their investment, and the customers as well.

Now watch out for PR & spin doctors. 'It's not our fault it's that fool at the helm.'
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Old 01-17-2012, 09:04 AM   #25
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Costa Concordia

At the risk of sounding cynical, I'd expect the "Ambulance Chasers Hot Line" commercials on this one are already undergoing final edit. This is not to make jest of the people and families who have lost their lives or have been severely traumatized by this tragedy. All I can say is thanks to heaven it happened this way, cuz the ships keep getting bigger and bigger, and how long could it have gone without getting the answers to the questions that needed to be asked? I've been on cruises in the Med., Caribbean, Mexico, etc., and I've always wondered if the entire crew could even communicate with one another in an emergency. There were days when the trucker was the "hero of the road". Could it be that the reverence and respect for the mighty Ship's Captain is loosing ballast from the expectations of driven owners, investors, bottom-line marketeers and Exxon Valdez type incidents? I think today's Captains may have the same vulnerable A/B ratios as their ships.


-- Edited by healhustler on Tuesday 17th of January 2012 10:05:53 AM
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Old 01-17-2012, 09:11 AM   #26
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RE: Costa Concordia

Quote:
Andy G wrote:
No idea what that ship cost, ...*
*$450 million
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Old 01-17-2012, 10:31 AM   #27
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RE: Costa Concordia

More on Costa Concordia today

*

<a>http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jan/17/costa-concordia-coastguard-captain-return</a>
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Old 01-17-2012, 05:34 PM   #28
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RE: Costa Concordia

I saw a discussion of the matter today, it seems there is a clause in the fine print of the ticket agreement where liability of the cruise line is limited by the "Athens Convention" the trems are very unfavorable to the passenger. Apparently this clause is included in the ticket agreement of most if not all cruise lines. A comment on it " "The Athens Convention is an international convention which limits the liability of cruise lines to the $71400 figure," for more look it up online.
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Old 01-18-2012, 05:17 AM   #29
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RE: Costa Concordia

Look on your ticket before flying .similar limits (different Accord) apply ,

otherwise no Air Bus would ever get insurance, and the fleet would be melted down.
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Old 01-18-2012, 10:05 PM   #30
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RE: Costa Concordia

"The Athens Convention is an international convention which limits the liability of cruise lines to the $71400 figure"

Interesting to see if that stands up if criminal liability is proved.
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Old 01-19-2012, 06:05 AM   #31
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RE: Costa Concordia

Article 13

Loss of right to limit liability

1. The carrier shall not be entitled to the benefit of the limits of liability prescribed in Articles 7 and 8 and paragraph 1 of Article 10, if it is proved that the damage resulted from an act or omission of the carrier done with the intent to cause such damage, or recklessly and with knowledge that such damage would probably result.

2. The servant or agent of the carrier or of the performing carrier shall not be entitled to the benefit of those limits if it is proved that the damage resulted from an act or omission of that servant or agent done with the intent to cause such damage, or recklessly and with knowledge that such damage would probably result.
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Old 01-20-2012, 06:15 PM   #32
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RE: Costa Concordia

This was interesting...A moment by moment track of the grounding of the Costa Concordia...
*
With commentary...
*
http://gcaptain.com/gcaptains-john-k...a-video/?37941
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Old 01-20-2012, 07:26 PM   #33
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RE: Costa Concordia

Thanks. Interesting link.

*

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Old 01-20-2012, 08:00 PM   #34
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Costa Concordia

Very informative. Thanks for posting this. Shows pretty clearly how a fairly simple early error in judgement can be escalated into a real disaster.* Years ago in a 737 systems class at Boeing we spent a whole evening dissecting the final accident report on the Air Florida plane that went into the Potomac River in Washington, DC.* Same sort of thing in a way--- an early error in judgement combined with a simple "minor mistake" ended up putting the plane in the river.

*


-- Edited by Marin on Friday 20th of January 2012 09:03:41 PM
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Old 01-20-2012, 08:23 PM   #35
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RE: Costa Concordia

Is that the 737 that hit the bridge in the early 80's? I thought it went down due to icing.
Not as bad as the VARIG flight that had its pilot input a heading of "027" instead of "270" into the IFR / autopilot.. then flew north into the amazon until they ran out of fuel (and lost track of time listening to a soccer game on the radio...). All were lost, sad to say.
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Old 01-20-2012, 08:30 PM   #36
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RE: Costa Concordia

Quote:
7tiger7 wrote:
Is that the 737 that hit the bridge in the early 80's? I thought it went down due to icing.
Yes, but not the way you would think.* The accident was 100 percent pilot screw up.* Had they not made the "little" mistake they made, the plane would have taken off and flown away just fine.* As it was, their mistake snowballed (litterally) into a series of events that led to the plane hitting the bridge and going into the river.
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Old 01-20-2012, 08:30 PM   #37
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RE: Costa Concordia

Quote:
7tiger7 wrote:
Is that the 737 that hit the bridge in the early 80's? I thought it went down due to icing.
Not as bad as the VARIG flight that had its pilot input a heading of "027" instead of "270" into the IFR / autopilot.. then flew north into the amazon until they ran out of fuel (and lost track of time listening to a soccer game on the radio...). All were lost, sad to say.
*The Air Florida flight that went down in the Potomac started with icing on a engine probe that lead to the crew thinking they had X power when they only had x-alot of power.* Then a COMPLEX set of policy and crew coordination led to that crash...my 1st Coast Guard boss still has his ticket for that flight that he missed due to a late running meeting!

But it was not a simple mistake or one or two factors...it was a long line of issues that human factors classes in aviation safety use as an example a lot.

I'll be interested in the FINAL report of the cruise ship disaster.
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Old 01-20-2012, 08:34 PM   #38
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RE: Costa Concordia

Quote:
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*The Air Florida flight that went down in the Potomac started with icing on a engine probe that lead to the crew thinking they had X power when they only had x-alot of power.*
*It wasn't quite that simple and the mistake that started the whole thing going was made by the flight crew while they were still at the gate.
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Old 01-21-2012, 06:38 AM   #39
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RE: Costa Concordia

Quote:
Marin wrote: It wasn't quite that simple ...
It never is. The sad part is that all they had to do was push the throttles forward and fly away.

It is kind of like AF 447, all they had to do was fly out of a stall.

But, it wasn't that simple ... it never is and not many people really understand that.
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Old 01-21-2012, 11:24 AM   #40
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RE: Costa Concordia

Indeed. My father worked for VARIG Brazilian Airlines for 30+ years (management, not as a pilot), but every time one of their planes went down, he had to travel to the crash site to manage the airlines side of the investigation, etc. We used to have the NTSB final reports around the house. Quite interesting reads.
What's sad is how often a serious of seemingly small, inconsequential mistakes (which taken alone would have little effect on the plane) sometimes add up to bring a plane down (ie, a ground crew in Chile, I believe, who used silver duct tape to block a pitot tube while cleaning the plane - but then forgot to remove it, and the pilot didn't spot it on walk around at night, as the tape was silver - instead of a contrasting color to the plane - and the plane went down in the Pacific, if I recall correctly).

Anyway - back to Concordia - who here thinks (and yes, this is PURE speculation) that had the Captain acted as he should of (responsibly) and taken command of the ship and evacuation as soon as she had struck the rocks, there would have been zero casualties?
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