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Old 04-15-2019, 09:33 AM   #1
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Cost to overhaul Ford Lehman 120 HP?

As we continue our boat search for an older trawler we often see boats with Ford Lehman 12 HP engines.

Does anyone have any recent experience with the cost of a full overhaul of one of these should it be necessary?
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Old 04-15-2019, 09:44 AM   #2
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Last year Harbor Marine in Everett was quoting $17,000 plus a core. Try them or North Harbor in Anacortes for current prices.
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Old 04-15-2019, 09:50 AM   #3
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About $10-11K. We had a SP135 done 2.5 years ago by Bomac Marine. We pulled and reinstalled the engine. Less than a day for each. Here's a link for pretty much what he did:

http://bomacmarine.com/pdf/Suggested...ehman-Ford.pdf
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Old 04-15-2019, 09:52 AM   #4
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Ask Brian at American Diesel, the go to place for all things Lehman. They don't do overhauls but should know who does.


$17,000 sounds steep but may be reality. At that price I would look hard at repowering with a factory remanned Cummins 6BT 210 hp. New factory warranty and a newer design. Probably low $20,000s for bobtail engine and will take more work on engine mounts to make it work, but if you need to pull the engine for overhaul you are 80% of the way there.



But don't start your boat search assuming that any Lehman or similar engine may need to be overhauled. It takes a catastrophic event: loss of cooling or oil to cause enough damage to require overhauling. Most old Lehmans just need TLC and maybe a few marinization items replaced. American Diesel has all of the parts you need.


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Old 04-15-2019, 10:19 AM   #5
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If the Lehman's in the boat you are looking at survey clean I wouldn't worry about them. There are a lot of them out there still running strong with over 10,000 hours. As one poster said the only thing that will kill them is overheating and loss of oil.

Marinized by Lehman they are a simple piece of steel based on a industrial engine built by Ford. I would rather have a old Lehman without all the computer and electronics crap on them than a newer power plant where you need a degree in electronic engineering to work on the.
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Old 04-15-2019, 12:51 PM   #6
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Is the Lehman a direct injection design though? If not that would be a big reason to modernize. Which you can do with out computers in a Cummins.
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Old 04-15-2019, 01:19 PM   #7
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Trusty old engines easy to repair yourself. Simple, efficient. Parts are available for a realistic price. After service from American diesel is excellent advice is free and parts are reasonable. Pulled my own engines changed oil pumps. Also pulled engines and changed camshaft and followers. In line six's with no electronics. Everything so simple, you have diesel? You have air. You have cranking power. The engine starts!
My current / new boat has cat 3208's NA again no electronics. Just love the KISS principal. And adored my Lehmans 120hp.
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Old 04-15-2019, 02:15 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by rjwilliams11741 View Post
If the Lehman's in the boat you are looking at survey clean I wouldn't worry about them. There are a lot of them out there still running strong with over 10,000 hours...
The only reason we rebuilt our Lehman at 8400 hours was we had to remove it from Hobo to get the fuel tanks out. The last oil analysis, as the previous ones, were perfect.
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Old 04-15-2019, 03:21 PM   #9
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Thank you all for your input. I agree Ford - Lehman's are as near bullet proof as you can get. Simple, inline 6, all mechanical, naturally aspirated. What's not to like.

But, I'm realistic and want to manage financial risks as well as maritime risks. Hence the request for overhaul prices.
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Old 04-15-2019, 03:37 PM   #10
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If my 225ís ever need to be rebuilt, I will be finding used ones to buy.
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Old 04-16-2019, 05:23 AM   #11
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If using a local rebuilder , I would shop for the best "speed shop" in the area.

They are usually used to doing unique engines and should (ask) have the best equipment for the job.

They should be able to line bore the block for crank & cam shafts. Straighten the crank as required.

Most important would be their skills with balancing the reciprocating parts.

Matching piston weight , con rods end for end etc. is seldom done on a low RPM boat motor but it is not expensive and can make a Huge difference in the smoothness felt on board.

Since we boat for pleasure and an inline 6 is smooth to start with , why Shake Rattle and Roll just because the boat engine started out with tractor specs?
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Old 04-16-2019, 10:24 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djmarchand View Post
Ask Brian at American Diesel, the go to place for all things Lehman. They don't do overhauls but should know who does.


$17,000 sounds steep but may be reality. At that price I would look hard at repowering with a factory remanned Cummins 6BT 210 hp. New factory warranty and a newer design. Probably low $20,000s for bobtail engine and will take more work on engine mounts to make it work, but if you need to pull the engine for overhaul you are 80% of the way there.



But don't start your boat search assuming that any Lehman or similar engine may need to be overhauled. It takes a catastrophic event: loss of cooling or oil to cause enough damage to require overhauling. Most old Lehmans just need TLC and maybe a few marinization items replaced. American Diesel has all of the parts you need.


David


In 2008 I purchased a new Lehman 135 from American Diesel for $13,500. The estimate to overall the original FL120 was $8,500. I donated that engine to a marine educ. foundation and received a $1200 charitable deduction on my federal tax return. Problem with the engine was an out-of-round piston caused by over heating. The #6 cylinder is vulnerable to this problem...also referred to as "piston slap", it will sound like the engine needs a valve adjustment. American Diesel offers an external cooling modification to prevent this problem.
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Old 04-18-2019, 07:20 PM   #13
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I looked over the items on the Bomar list posted above. If you were doing your own, or even having a good local shop do the work with your supervision, the costs should be quite a bit lower. There are a number of items on that list that can easily be avoided if you are careful in how you approach it.
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Old 04-18-2019, 07:39 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Portage_Bay View Post
Thank you all for your input. I agree Ford - Lehman's are as near bullet proof as you can get. Simple, inline 6, all mechanical, naturally aspirated. What's not to like.

But, I'm realistic and want to manage financial risks as well as maritime risks. Hence the request for overhaul prices.
Makes sense to ask the question, but chances are if you acquire a boat with Lehmans you`ll never have to rebuild.
The main threat is blocked cooling passages around no.6 cylinder(furthest from the circulation pump) leading to overheat and piston failure. A blockage there can require some effort and persistence to clear.
I`m unaware of an ADC fix for this,I am aware of: 1) an ADC updated raw water pump to replace the original where the drive mechanism can fail without warning, and 2) a return overflow storage bottle system, the latter being more convenience than disaster prevention.
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Old 04-19-2019, 02:12 PM   #15
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BruceK - What would cause a blockage of the cooling passage around #6 ?
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Old 04-19-2019, 02:27 PM   #16
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Funny but Brian at ADC told me not to worry about the blckage issue as it has been way overblown.


May be time to recheck with him and Bomac.
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Old 04-19-2019, 02:43 PM   #17
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While talking about FL #6 cyl overheating nwboater wrote;
“American Diesel offers an external cooling modification to prevent this problem.”

What does that consist of physically. Some plumbing I assume.
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Old 04-19-2019, 09:20 PM   #18
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There are so many neglected boats with perfectly good engines. Like I said, Iíd be looking for someone selling some Lehmanís for cheap.
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Old 04-20-2019, 03:07 AM   #19
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Funny but Brian at ADC told me not to worry about the blckage issue as it has been way overblown.
May be time to recheck with him and Bomac.
Perhaps the diagnosis changed, but couple of years back I talked with him by email and it seemed real enough to him, I think he referred to "silting" around no.6 and the need to remove freeze plugs(which we call welsh plugs(apologies to the Welsh) to get the passages clean. As to the source of the "silt", not discussed. Maybe from coolant.
My mechanic got at the fw side with a patent cleaning product he worships, and got it clean.
When I read on TF of a major internal Lehman problem it`s usually no.6 piston failing,which as a non mechanic I associate with reduced cooling around no.6, be it silting or just furthest from the circulation pump, or both.
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Old 04-20-2019, 07:16 AM   #20
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I talked to him about it 2 years ago I think, maybe 3. I wanted a freeze plug and he as usual asked " for what?". I told him andI believe he told me don't worry about it. It wasn't a big issue and with no symtoms and regular flushing it shouldn't be a problem.


While TFers keep talking about this rblem, my research into it didn't make it sound like the big deal made about it here.



I might call Bomac and see, they are rebuilders so they should have a good idea.
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