Comments on livability?

[bobsyiruncle]

I have a 38 Bayliner now and I am pretty happy with it. I am thinking of a 42-44 Jefferson, Present, Ponderosa, Tradewinds or similar. I really like the interior joinery and extra space of an enclosed hard top sundeck. I know there will be a difference docking, but for my own marina, extra deck height is a substantial help rather than a hindrance. There are lots in my price range and I am reasonably comfortable I can distinguish good from bad with both my own experience and that of multitudes of other owner/posters. What I have never seen much on is the difference in livability so I am hoping a former Bayliner owner who has made the same transition might chime in.

Here is my quandary. I have knees that have seen better days. I can appreciate the differences in the Bay vs.say MT layout but although the change might help my knees, I am less comfortable predicting this issue compared to mechanical ones .

I find my boat not so much difficult but, over a season, perhaps wearing. As examples, there are about four trip hazards or height changes to go down the narrow hallway from the bedroom to the guest head. BTW it is a real bear to work inside the hallway hatch. The stairs from the kitchen to the salon are not bad as they are wider and more consistent but the drop off from the salon to the cockpit is not my favourite. As well the ladder to the bridge is not so nice on regular days but much worse in rough water.

I know a Sundeck model mostly operates like a split level with fewer, more well defined steps in between. I will probably make the move with or without any knee advantage but am quite curious if things might get better it could speed me up a bit. Comments? TIA

 

[Blue Heron]

Love love love my Sundeck Nova Heritage East.

I have had knee surgery and find the ladders easy to maneuver. Not too fatiguing.

 

[psneeld]

I would not have a sundeck because of the ladder to the swim platform...not sure the other steps are any worse than a trunk cabin model...I have 3 steps up/down to my forward stateroom/galley and to the master. I have 2 steps out of the saloon to the deck and 3 steps to the trunk cabin top then flat then 2 step ladder to the flying bridge.

I think this is the easiest for an older guy with bad knees to get everyplace with minimum ladder climbing but I'm sure there are others that will disagree so I'm awaiting their thoughts as well.

 

[bobsyiruncle]

Love love love my Sundeck Nova Heritage East.

And that is what I get and exactly what I deserve for failing to mention a Heritage East

 

[Blue Heron]

When I am med moored I have to enter via the Swim platform as Psneeld states. But it's an easy climb. I have 3 steps into the salon and 2 into the galley. 3 up to the fly bridge. Easy peasy. My dad can still make it up to the deck. But .. I also have cold beer as an incentive. Not sure if that is anecdotal enough...

 

[bobsyiruncle]

I would not have a sundeck because of the ladder to the swim platform.

Yes I have heard the same thing. It still is a problem if you have an extension and a cockpit or alternatively have an clunky opening into the master. I don't like either but must say that "ladder or cockpit" or not, that would be less of a problem than the bridge ladder which you mount underway in weather compared to the swim platform which you don't really go out on unless you are stationary so may not be a deal breaker.

 

[bobsyiruncle]

I also have cold beer as an incentive. Not sure if that is anecdotal enough...

Any serious self respecting trawler owner should consider a strategically located beer frig at each level.

 

[knotheadcharters]

Went from my Bayliner 3288 to a 48 foot Californian. I have to agree on the Sundecks. Yes, they are multi level but very easy to traverse. As far as the drop to the swim platform it's not too bad and in reality I have only had to use it a few times so far as an entry and exit point. Livability is a 10.

 

[Pau Hana]

Yes I have heard the same thing. It still is a problem if you have an extension and a cockpit or alternatively have an clunky opening into the master. I don't like either but must say that "ladder or cockpit" or not, that would be less of a problem than the bridge ladder which you mount underway in weather compared to the swim platform which you don't really go out on unless you are stationary so may not be a deal breaker.

We have a cockpit yachtfisher, and find the arrangement very accommodating. In the salon, there are 4 stairs forward, from the salon down to the galley and forward cabin; 4 stairs down to the aft cabin; and 4 stairs up to the enclosed sundeck. From the sundeck, there are 4 stairs to the flybridge.

From the aft cabin, there are 3 stairs into the cockpit (full sized door). Nothing clunky about it at all.

I liked my 3870, but this layout is another world altogether by comparison.

 

[psneeld]

Yes I have heard the same thing. It still is a problem if you have an extension and a cockpit or alternatively have an clunky opening into the master. I don't like either but must say that "ladder or cockpit" or not, that would be less of a problem than the bridge ladder which you mount underway in weather compared to the swim platform which you don't really go out on unless you are stationary so may not be a deal breaker.

If you are a serious cruiser...you'll get more than your feet wet on the swim platform....not often but it only takes once or twice in scary conditions to make you think how could it be better...

the only way I would have a major vessel with a high main deck or sundeck is with a cockpit....but that is just me and my way of using a vessel.

 

[alormaria]

The newer Heritage Sundecks have molded in stairways up from the swim platform and around outside for this very reason. Look for 2001+ years.

 

[River Cruiser]

I went from a 32xx Bayliner to my 3870 Bayliner & one of the main reasons is the cockpit door, the 32 didn't have one. I have a bad knee that only bends to 90 degrees from a motorcycle wreck when I was a kid. With the 32 I had a set of steps on the finger to enter & exit the boat & that worked fine on a inland lake where I was always in the same slip. On the river different marinas & having to bow in or having a end tie makes using the transom door to the swim grid & then step up on to the dock works very well for us, I do have a RR conductor step I use on the swim grid if needed on a higher dock. I like the aft cabin style boats like caver & the old Chris craft but I wouldn't own one because of the ladders to get on or off, climbing the flybridge ladder is ok because I don't have to do that multiple times a day.

 

[bobsyiruncle]

Peter is right that as you get up to a 52 the door improves a lot but if you are at 40 plus a cockpit, making it 44 or so it is often more of a glorified window than a door. I am limited to about 44 by cost effective and available dockage.

psneeld - interesting comment. right now I can't really think of a reason to be on a swim platform in crap weather or underway unless I am trying to rescue someone. Then it would not be about convenience and I would be tied on with a life line myself - I can understand where dock heights are low but everywhere I go you have to climb up to the dock. this year I made a extra side step between the rail and the salon wall so my wife could get on safely and still it is tricky . I think i higher deck with a ladder or passerelle would be the ticket - did I miss something?

 

[ksanders]

You know, as a happy Bayliner owner you might consider the 4788 model.

Few would argue hat it's not a very liveaboard friendly design.

With a covered cockpit entry is a breeze, among with comfortable covered seating.

With the galley on the same level as the salon and cockpit, hauling groceries, meal preparation and stowing groceries is a snap.

Three straight steps down to the cabin level

Three straight steps up to the pilothouse level

Three more straight steps from the pilothouse to he huge fly bridge/boat deck

heres a video of my boats interior

 

[bobsyiruncle]

Thanks Kevin. I have followed you for a while and remember the harrowing trip to Alaska. I am afraid the 4788 is, as an American would word it, "a bit spendy" for me. As well. it ratchets down my dockage availability.
Great video though - here it is

Bayliner 4788 MV Lisas Way Interior - YouTube

 

[Underway]

...the only way I would have a major vessel with a high main deck or sundeck is with a cockpit.

Same here. Easier and safer access from floating docks, dink access, line handling in locks, "stuff" storage... Here's a photo of our OA 44....the cockpit is also available on the 42 and 46.

 

[Rivahrat]

Have to agree with Blue Heron & Knotheadcharters. We purchased our MT sun deck over a year ago, & we love it. Sure there are steps, but not that bad. So far we have only used the steps to the swim platform once. With the sun deck enclosed, you have another room....

Frank

 

[psneeld]

using the swim platform is all about how you boat...if you are mostly in marinas...not important....

dingy, diving, emergencies, etc...etc....the swim platform is your connection to the world outside your boat...so it DOES become a big deal...but only for those that enter or need to get close to the water on a daily basis....occasionally climbing down a ladder is no big deal or if you are still young or don't have a dog that needs to get there (though at some point getting a dog to the dingy is black magic for ANY boat).

 

[Bay Pelican]

The Krogen Manatee, a 36ft single stateroom, trawler has its living quarters on a single level with a flying bridge for piloting. The Manatee is well loved and one of the favorite boats for living aboard. There must be other single level boats. Suggest you consider looking at a boat or two on a single level.

Marty

 

[markpierce]

Haven't had a need to use them (boarding ladder and swim platform) in 2.8 years, but there they are.

 

[Moonstruck]

using the swim platform is all about how you boat...if you are mostly in marinas...not important....

dingy, diving, emergencies, etc...etc....the swim platform is your connection to the world outside your boat...so it DOES become a big deal...but only for those that enter or need to get close to the water on a daily basis....occasionally climbing down a ladder is no big deal or if you are still young or don't have a dog that needs to get there (though at some point getting a dog to the dingy is black magic for ANY boat).

All the above plus when at a floating dock. With the dinghy down and the snap davits hooked, the dog can walk right our of the boat and into the dinghy. Easy, peasy.

 

[markpierce]

Livability? Please tell me about it.

 

[psneeld]

if you haven't had or used a dingy a lot...of course your use of a swim platform would be a stretch....there are some boats that don't dingy up to the swim platform...but they are rare in the powerboat world.

 

[markpierce]

if you haven't had or used a dingy a lot...of course your use of a swim platform would be a stretch....there are some boats that don't dingy up to the swim platform...but they are rare in the powerboat world.

We've "dinghied up" at the side of the boat. Not an option on most boats needing steps to board aside from a dock, I fear.

(Petaluma docks are a nice height: equal to the Coot's deck.)

 

[psneeld]

We've "dinghied up" at the side of the boat.

out for a pleasure row tied to the dock...or loading up a dingy and getting a heavy anchor and rode out to kedge off is a really rough anchorage???

as I posted before...if you are gonna mostly marina hop in fair weather...of course your requirements in a boat may be different that what others may choose to place higher on the priority list.

 

[markpierce]

out for a pleasure row tied to the dock...or loading up a dingy and getting a heavy anchor and rode out to kedge off is a really rough anchorage???

For this boat, it is easier from the side. ... The stern ladder is for those who have already fallen into the water.

 

[markpierce]

All the pilot boats meeting/connecting with ships I've observed, were never on the stern. (What would you expect when the ship is underway?)

 

[ksanders]

There is nothing negative about a swim platform, or a cockpit. A swim step and or a cockpit do not affect anything except for the ease of getting on and off the boat.

Boats that do not have a cockpit are not better, or more for serious cruisers, or anything.
The designers, in eliminating the cockpit are choosing to use that space for the boats interior, much in the same way that a boat without side decks utilizes that space to make a larger interior.

We need to remember that for a given length and width, there is only so much room. Every designer makes compromises on how to use that space, within the norms of boat design. One compromise is not better or worse than another, per se.

As a buyer we all choose what features are most important to us, and choose boat models that have those features. In doing so, we are of course all giving up any other use for that space.

 

[psneeld]

All the pilot boats meeting/connecting with ships I've observed, were never on the stern. (What would you expect when the ship is underway?)

you are trying to compare a recreational cruising boat and how many people use it to a ship/pilot boat operation?

 

[markpierce]

you are trying to compare a recreational cruising boat and how many people use it to a ship/pilot boat operation?

No, I'm just saying we do it "like the professionals" because it fits our boat. :lol: