Comfort vs fear

[skipperdude]

Say you have been planning a trip for weeks and.

If the weather report say's 30 knt winds seas to 5 ft do you go out any way or stay in the harbor?

What is you comfort zone?

SD

 

[sunchaser]

Dude

Being*an experienced Alaska veteran I'm sure you have a good answer for your boat and experience that would be very different than mine. Tides, current direction, winds and improving/ deteriorating conditions all play into the answer. A 15 foot long period swell is very different than a 5 foot short period wave.

Last summer when crossing Dixon entrance in our DeFever 48, we waited out a 35 knot gale with 2 - 3 meter seas but finally crossed in 25 knot winds and 1-2 meter following seas. Beam seas are nicely counteracted on our vessel by active stabilizers.

Last but not least, hull design and boat size enter into the answer. A 40' Nordhavn would be much more seaworthy than a 40' Bayliner. Likewise a 45' Beneteau sail boat would be better than a 60' Hampton. Did I mention crew experience?

 

[jleonard]

superdiver wrote:
For me, the short answer is NO... I am a fair weather sailor so far....

*I have to agree with this. I'd stay in the harbor. *The weather will be better tomorrow.

*

 

[skipperdude]

sunchaser wrote:
Dude

Being*an experienced Alaska veteran I'm sure you have a good answer for your boat and experience that would be very different than mine. Tides, current direction, winds and improving/ deteriorating conditions all play into the answer. A 15 foot long period swell is very different than a 5 foot short period wave.

Last summer when crossing Dixon entrance in our DeFever 48, we waited out a 35 knot gale with 2 - 3 meter seas but finally crossed in 25 knot winds and 1-2 meter following seas. Beam seas are nicely counteracted on our vessel by active stabilizers.

Last but not least, hull design and boat size enter into the answer. A 40' Nordhavn would be much more seaworthy than a 40' Bayliner. Likewise a 45' Beneteau sail boat would be better than a 60' Hampton. Did I mention crew experience?

*A lot of my thoughts go for the people that will be going with me.

Like you said experience will carry me a lot further than those going with me who say this is my first time. Where*I do most of my boating we don't get the swells. If it's bad we get 5' or 6' wind blown chop. Most of the time a 15 knt wind will give a 3' sea. The Glaciers seem to have there own climate. if you pass in front of them.

As to crew experience that is usually non existing. I really have to play captain and tell everyone just exactly what to do. If I am going solo I just take what ever is coming and deal with it.

It is the passangers that keep me in port. I can stand at the helm in 6' waves no problem.** Everyone else is white nuckles or chumming.

I guess I was just wondering how many others are restrained by those that boat with them.

SD

*

*

 

[GarryP]

What is the purpose for the trip? If it's for pleasure, why push it? The problem with schedules is pushing to make certain dates. The luxury of cruising is going when you want to go.

And consider the passengers as suggested above. One way to ruin a mate's relationship with cruising is to push through rough weather.

 

[skipperdude]

I agree.**It is just that sometimes long laid plans arn't as much fun sitting at the dock.

Don't get me wrong. Nothing wrong with a brown bottle weekend.

For now I am pretty much a weekend worrior. Not a true cruiser.

I just fret over not being able to show a friend a good time.

SD

 

[Carey]

I have to go with what everyone says, with extra emphasis on the wife's comfort zone. There are other factors too, such as am I going to take it on the nose, or following, and what will my current location be like in a few hours or days. Will it remain protected? Traveling as a single boat or with a fleet? I have caved to the fleet mentality before, and ended up unhappy with that choice. Never again. If I say it's not safe, then it's not.

 

[Phil Fill]

SD, you should know my answer before you asked the question.* NO WAY!* I am the ultimate fair weather Dock Queen and proud of it.* *The conditions have to be wind less than 10 mph, wave less then one foot, blue ski and temp above 70 degrees, which mean in the PNW there is only a couple of day per year that meet those conditions.* I dont make any firm commitments to leave the dock until a couple of days a head of time and then its a BIG MAYBE!* **

 

[bobofthenorth]

skipperdude wrote:
Say you have been planning a trip for weeks and.

If the weather report say's 30 knt winds seas to 5 ft do you go out any way or stay in the harbor?

What is you comfort zone?

SD

*Let's not just "say" that we've been planning exactly that situation for 6 weeks because we actually have been doing that.* Tomorrow at noon some long time friends are arriving at Victoria airport to spend a week on the boat.* And not that we're some salty old veterans with well established plans to deal with this, quite the opposite in fact.* However, this is what we have planned:

We'll pick them up tomorrow at the airport and move them into the v-berth for the night, at the dock at our Yacht Club.* On Saturday morning I'll make the call about where we go.* If the seas are calm in the Strait we'll go across to Vancouver.* If the Strait is bumpy but it looks good to Victoria we'll go to Victoria.* If its generally nasty outside we'll go around behind the Saanich Peninsula and play there for a week.* What we absolutely won't do is get wrapped up in some schedule that gets us into conditions that nobody likes.* In the worst case if we get over to Vancouver and it all goes to pot we'll put them on a plane back to Victoria to catch their flight home a week later.

*

 

[RCook]

In our 26-footer, I would not likely start off across the Dixon with winds forecast greater than 15 knots, or seas greater than 1 meter at the Central Dixon Entrance. Similar heading around Cape Caution.* In both cases if the wind were going to be opposed to tidal current I'd be especially reluctant.

I pick up guests often, and for their sake as well as mine I generally avoid weather much stronger than the above just about anywhere in SE Alaska.* Even when guests have only two weeks aboard, it's no fun being intimidated.* My dog doesn't like it either.

*

*

 

[Rob]

We have waited out weather for a week at a time. The golden rule is that if one member of the crew says no go that is exactly what we do. Generaly it's the First Mait that recomends that we not go out.

Rob and Anne

Lady Anne"Willard 40PH

 

[sunchaser]

For an interesting read, check out the setsail website. A new owner of a Dashew FPB 64 is currently*traveling from NZ to Hawaii. Winds of 35 to 45 knots*with 15 foot seas are discussed and how the boat handles these conditions. On autopilot all the way to boot.

 

[GarryP]

Just a thought - Have you been "planning" the trip or just talking about it.

Perhaps a real plan would have contingencies for rough weather, dealing with storms, safe ports, etc. It doesn't sound like a well thought out plan.

I don't mean to sound critical. I don't normally make a real plan myself. It's just a thought.

 

[jleonard]

"*with extra emphasis on the wife's comfort zone."

My wife has a larger comfort zone than I do. She'd go out in lots of stuff that I say no to. There are times I don't mind enduring a 4 hour ride if I KNOW I'll be in a nice quiet anchorage for the night. However, I won't do the bad ride to have to stay up all night in a blow. That's what I pay my slip fee for. I'd rather leave the dock at first light the following morning AFTER the bad weather has gone.

*

*

 

[Rob]

When crossing the Gulf of Alaska from Prince William Sound to Icy Straits the entire run is about 55 hours non stop in our boat. The weather that we look for would be about a 15 knot wind and maybe 5 foot seas. We always start in favorable conditions with a three day favorable forecast, but the seas alway kick up in the afternoons or for that matter at any time. This is a very serious crossing in any conditions! When we travel in open water like that, the paravanes are deployed at all times. Normally the boat gently rolls to about 8 deg. But one night while rounding Cape St. Elias off of Kayak Is. I was on the O'dark thirthy watch. The seas really kicked up as did the wind. The boat was rolling to about 20+ deg and a bit of water over the bow. I could see that the wind was about 45 knots but lucky for me I really couldn't see the water due to darkness. When my wife awoke at about daylight, several hours after her watch should have started she greeted me with a pleasent hello. Not knowing what I had been dealing with for several hours, she was ready to take the wheel as soon as she had had some coffee. We were a little beyound our comfort zone, and she never even knew it.

Rob and Anne Hays
"Lady Anne" Willard 40 PH
La Conner, Wa/Girdwood, Ak.

 

[Budds Outlet]

Both times I've been in seas I didn't want to be in was because I was keeping a schedule. I don't do that any more. The wife can tolerate heavier water than I so it make me the limiting factor. I don't like it much beyond 2-3 footers and wind at 15 kts.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Well ofthenorth, If you go across Georgia Strait you be sett'in yourself (and your guests) up for getting stuck on the east side. Some of the worst seas I've had to deal with were on Georgia Strait.

When I was in Puget Sound my cut off point was 30knots in the forecast. So I'd go forth in a 25knot forecast most anywhere. And then I had a 25' Albin. But Cary brings things into focus w some of the variables. If you need to go into Rosairio Strait on an ebb spring tide in 20knot south winds you're going to wish you had'nt. Many variables to account for. In the larger inland bodies of water in SE Alaska any forecast over 15knots is a red flag. But if the trip was important and if I was northbound in a 25 knot SSE forecast with neep tides flowing north and that weather was moderating I'd go. Each one of those variables is important. And w the above forecast I would most likely be, at some point in beam seas of about 6'. That would be uncomfortable and a good skipper knows his (or her) boat well and knows the line between uncomfortable and dangerous. I've been uncomfortable only once on Willy and I've been w Willy in seas 6 or 7 times that were the same height or bigger. And the discomfort happened fast. Sometimes one just needs to be there and feel the boat under them to know if all will have a safe outcome. The more you learn about weather, the sea and your boat the safer you will be. However you may become more conservative after a number of scary experiences.

 

[Anode]

The key to keeping spouses and family enthused about boating and cruising is to know and respect everyone's comfort factor. If the conditions are beyond that, stay at the dock and wait until things improve. Period. Scare someone once and they may never come back.

My wife is a seasoned boater and loves the water but I know her limits are less than mine*and I respect them. She'll be out there on the water with me to the end.

I do boat deliveries and my comfort factor is the boat's capability. Just back (two weeks ago)*from a 10 day off-shore (Gulf Stream) delivery from Fort Lauderdale, FL to Barnegat, NJ. 75 to 100 miles off-shore much of way. 3 man crew - 4 hour watch - 8 hour off. Always - Keep current on weather reports -*Have 'bail out' points if conditions get too bad. 30 knot winds and 10-12 foot seas on several occasions. Lots of water over the deck to fill the cockpit several times a shift. Lay on the floor to sleep. Lay on the floor to put your clothes on. SIT DOWN to pee. 26 degrees off the NJ coast with ice on the life lines. Good food,*good crew*=*good times. And no...I didn't do this in my 30 foot trawler. It was a 40 foot blue water sailboat.

 

[JohnP]

The Admiral would have given up on boating long age if I insisted on pushing ahead in iffy conditions.* Some folks like the "fun" of plowing into head seas for hours on end.

Now I perfer to avoid rough weather and have no problem waiting for the right conditions.

JohnP

 

[Steve]

If the weather is not forecast to be "good" I'm not going out. Now, once in a while NOAA will slip up when I've been out there and "caught" I'm thinking "what am I doing out here shoulda stayed in" but it is too late so endure it. (Like John P, times 2 as far as the admiral is concerned) I have no problem waiting who ever ran out of things to do on a boat.
"good" for me is 10-15 or less and 2'-3' or less.
I know, I know, in some places one would never leave the dock with those parameters, good for those who do.
Where I live I can get in plenty of boating done in the weather I choose.
The winds have a way of fooling people, often I'll think or hear people say it must be blowing 20-25k , I check it on the annemometer its usually about 12, maybe less.
Good crusin', and weather, to all!
Steve W

 

[Rob]

Carl- When we are going out and there is any chance of foul weather we drop the paravave arms and secure the rigging. Once the arms are set you need to STOP the vessel of fwd motion before you deploy/drop the birds/fish/paravanes. As far as crossing the Gulf of Alaska goes with our boat we have crossed it going north because we purchased the boat in Puget Sound and were transporting her home to South Central Ak. We traveled south across the Gulf a couple of years ago so the we could cruise the Inside Passage and head towards Puget Sound. Once we arrived in Puget Sound we decided to relocate from Ak to the PNW. On three other occasions we crossed the Gulf of Ak to transport a 66 foot custom cruise boat, this was a business sort of a deal. Of these three crossings two were good and one was horable! I was sick the entire trip and the seas looked like mountians.

Rob and Anne
"Lady Anne' Willard 40 PH
La Conner, Wa./Girdwood, Ak.

 

[timjet]

I don't go out when the wx reports anything with a 3 or more in it.

But hey, my boat is for luxury cruising along with my personality.

Look at my avitar. The sea state was just about approaching my limits. HA.


-- Edited by timjet on Friday 22nd of April 2011 09:28:12 AM

 

[Tidahapah]

I cruise for pleasure and go to sea for a living.
When I make a living everything is acceptable.
When I cruise, comfort is paramount and also the company of my better half.
We have a 15 knot rule, we don't go out if it is blowing more than 15 , Ok if it gets up whilst out we will head for an anchorage to see the weather out.
If this were not so I would be doing a lot of solo cruising.
On trips with the guys for fishing etc weather has to be put up with as there are schedules involved sometimes
Happy cruising does not usually involve the constraints of a schedule.

Benn

 

[Conrad]

skipperdude wrote:
Say you have been planning a trip for weeks and.

If the weather report say's 30 knt winds seas to 5 ft do you go out any way or stay in the harbor?

What is you comfort zone?

SD

*Absolutely stay in the harbour. We were out in 20-25 knot winds for a long run last summer, and never again. These winds brought steady 8 footers with the occasional 10-12 footers so I would expect that 30 knots would probably bring much bigger waves than 5' in any event.

Another factor of course is whether you are going with, against, or across the waves.*

*

 

[koliver]

Botn:

You have your boat in the finest place on the planet for showing your friends a good time without subjecting them to any seasick generating roughness. Don't go across the Strait. stay in the Gulf Islands.
I speak from years of local knowledge. I kept my first boat in Tsehum Harbour for 7 years before yoining a Vancouver YC and moving moorage to coal Hbr in 1987. I also kept my boat at Point Roberts for 2 yrs in 84-86.
Plan a week long circuit that takes you up as far as Nanaimo. Visit Telegraph Hbr, Maple Bay, Monatgue, Poet's Cove, Silva bay, or quiet places like Princess or Conover, Retreat Cove, Prevost, Princess Margaret, Pt Browning. You won't run out of good stops to visit in a week and there won't be any chance of a rough crossing.

 

[johnma]

It would depend on the reason for the trip. If it was just to take a boat ride; no way. If we had to be somewhere, those parameters would be about the max. Four years ago, when we picked up the boat, we had 4 days to get it home and 300 miles to get there. Small craft advisories were posted, but we had to go, so we did.
John

 

[ksanders]

skipperdude wrote:
Say you have been planning a trip for weeks and.

If the weather report say's 30 knt winds seas to 5 ft do you go out any way or stay in the harbor?

What is you comfort zone?

SD

*We boat in the exact same waters I believe, Whittier Alaska. I currently have the American Dream 28', and before that Taz, a 34 footer.

After a decade of boating in PWS, there's not weather that comes up that is dangerous for us or our boat.*That said if the weather's bad, we just wait a day or two for it to settle down and then go out. We prefer to be comfortable.

If we really want to go during rough weather, we just*stay out of the soup and head down to Bainbridge, Latouch areas. We can always find a quiet place down there.

You're in a different situation being a charter operator. You guys will anchor out in seas that are most uncomfortable because you have paying customers. We on the other hand do not need to produce*halibut on every trip.


-- Edited by ksanders on Monday 25th of April 2011 08:26:47 PM

 

[Egregious]

Every boat and crew is different.* It comes down to the judgement of the skipper.

I use the rule I learned from sailors.*

"when in doubt, don't go out."

 

[Pineapple Girl]

this is a very interesting question.*

Where we keep our boat, on the south end of the San Francisco Bay, it is a given that the "wind machine"*is going to "turn on" every day by 2pm except in the winter.**The good side is, we ARE inside a big bay so usually the seas aren't bad.* If the wind and current are opposing it can be interesting but there is a limit to how bad it can get, unless there is a storm or remnants of one.* In that case (storm), we probably would postpone our*trip.* We generally only have storms in the winter so "in season" as long as we plan to leave the dock early we are usually ok.** We have waited out a storm with gusts over 50 knots and when we did leave around 3 pm to get home it was smooth and pleasant with winds 15-20 with the current.* Unfortunately if our limit was 15 knots we'd*never*leave the dock.* Someday I want to boat somewhere where it isn't over 15 knots EVERY DAY, all season.*

 

[Jay N]

Pineapple Girl wrote:
*Someday I want to boat somewhere where it isn't over 15 knots EVERY DAY, all season.*

San Fran is sailboat heaven.

Come to the PNW/BC/SE Alaska for summertime cruising.* During a recent*voyage to SE Alaska, we got almost 500 miles north of Seattle before we saw a sailboat with the sails up.

Of course, if you stay on the ocean side of things, there will be wind.* But the interior island passages are relatively calm.