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Old 12-03-2012, 03:27 PM   #41
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"Where does the love of God go when the waves turn the minutes to hours?"

I spent about the same amount of time trying to enter Barneget Inlet one summer.
I couldn't get that line out of my head then and now while watching that first video.
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Old 12-03-2012, 07:02 PM   #42
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I've never crossed a bar like that but have done quite a bit of reading on how to cross a bar, and after watching that video a few times, I have some questions about how to do it properly.

As I understand how to handle your boat in those waves, the best way to do it is to ride the back of the wave in front of you and avoid waves coming under your stern. Obviously, from watching that video that's how the fishing boats kept being tossed about and nearly broaching. It seemed the fishing boats didn't have enough speed/power to keep up with the waves.

My question is this...if those two boats had been able to crank out a few more knots so as to be able to ride on the backs of the waves, wouldn't they have had a much easier time of that crossing?
the short answer is yes...ride the back of one wave in...

The practical answer...I have never been in a situation where it works out that neat.
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Old 12-03-2012, 07:19 PM   #43
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I've never crossed a bar like that..
I understand how to handle your boat in those waves, the best way.. is to ride the back of the wave in front of you and avoid waves coming under your stern. Obviously, from watching that video that's how the fishing boats kept being tossed about and nearly broaching. It seemed the fishing boats didn't have enough speed/power to keep up with the waves.

My question is this...if those two boats had been able to crank out a few more knots so as to be able to ride on the backs of the waves, wouldn't they have had a much easier time of that crossing?
I`m no expert but have crossed bars in an open fishing boat and that was how we did it coming in, getting on and staying on the back of a wave. This looks to be a bar of considerable distance, which may make that impractical, and it requires an ability to accelerate and slow rapidly to keep position which trawlers may lack.
I thought at least one boat seemed to get deliberately beam on in the waves before squaring up for forward progress.
One fear is the shallow water you might experience between waves. Momentary grounding could, I think, spell disaster at least as much as broaching or getting rolled.
In Australia it is compulsory to wear life jackets crossing a bar.
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Old 12-03-2012, 07:24 PM   #44
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One fear is the shallow water you might experience between waves. Momentary grounding could, I think, spell disaster at least as much as broaching or getting rolled.
My boat's builder, in his younger, sailboating days, was transiting the South Channel approach to the Golden Gate when the boat was destroyed after hitting the ocean's bottom between the waves. He swam to shore and survived, but his companion did not.
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Old 12-03-2012, 07:55 PM   #45
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I've never crossed a bar like that but have done quite a bit of reading on how to cross a bar, and after watching that video a few times, I have some questions about how to do it properly.

As I understand how to handle your boat in those waves, the best way to do it is to ride the back of the wave in front of you and avoid waves coming under your stern. Obviously, from watching that video that's how the fishing boats kept being tossed about and nearly broaching. It seemed the fishing boats didn't have enough speed/power to keep up with the waves.

My question is this...if those two boats had been able to crank out a few more knots so as to be able to ride on the backs of the waves, wouldn't they have had a much easier time of that crossing?
Its easy to submarine your bow with a sundancer i have done that. Better to pick the correct times to cross the bar as per the coast gaurd instructions for the bar u intend to cross. Bars are killers, especially Oregon bars. Its not uncommon to see a CG rollver boat standing by at our bars. info below
Ocean Bar Conditions
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Old 12-03-2012, 08:12 PM   #46
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My boat's builder, in his younger, sailboating days, was transiting the South Channel approach to the Golden Gate when the boat was destroyed after hitting the ocean's bottom between the waves. He swam to shore and survived, but his companion did not.
that spot has taken many a mariner
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Old 12-03-2012, 08:15 PM   #47
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My question is this...if those two boats had been able to crank out a few more knots so as to be able to ride on the backs of the waves, wouldn't they have had a much easier time of that crossing?
GFC, short answer is yes-----but. . . . . I have ridden into inlets on the backs of waves many times. It takes plenty of power and much adjusting of throttles. You don't want to go over the face or get pooped. This is not always possible. When the ocean swells are opposing the current at an oblique angle, staying on the back of a wave can take you right into a jetty. That's when you try to correct by angling down the face of a wave, then do it all over again until in safe waters. It takes a lot of wheel turning and throttle adjustment. Lou hates that stuff.
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Old 12-03-2012, 08:20 PM   #48
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GFC, short answer is yes-----but. . . . . I have ridden into inlets on the backs of waves many times. It takes plenty of power and much adjusting of throttles. You don't want to go over the face or get pooped. This is not always possible. When the ocean swells are opposing the current at an oblique angle, staying on the back of a wave can take you right into a jetty. That's when you try to correct by angling down the face of a wave, then do it all over again until in safe waters. It takes a lot of wheel turning and throttle adjustment. Lou hates that stuff.
you can put your bow under water with some hull designs by useing to much power. I know the go fast design of my searay would do this cause i did it........
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Old 12-03-2012, 08:24 PM   #49
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....
One fear is the shallow water you might experience between waves. Momentary grounding could, I think, spell disaster at least as much as broaching or getting rolled.....
That's what happened to HMS Racoon (spelled correctly), an 18-gun sloop, while crossing the Columbia River bar in the early 1800s. She hit the bottom hard enough to break her spine. She limped down the coast to San Francisco Bay, her crew pumping water all the way. The crew careened her in Ayala Cove on Angel Island for repairs.

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Old 12-03-2012, 08:36 PM   #50
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you can put your bow under water with some hull designs by useing to much power. I know the go fast design of my searay would do this cause i did it........
In a breaking inlet you can put ANY boats bow under with too much power...if you have too much power and screw up a breaking inlet you are in over your head.

Too little speed/power is where yoiu are concerned about broaching. You think running a breaking inlet is bad...try doing it with a tow occasionally like some of us have to.
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Old 12-03-2012, 08:50 PM   #51
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In a breaking inlet you can put ANY boats bow under with too much power...if you have too much power and screw up a breaking inlet you are in over your head.

Too little speed/power is where yoiu are concerned about broaching. You think running a breaking inlet is bad...try doing it with a tow occasionally like some of us have to.
I have observed tows crossings bars always with a sense of respect, and from a distance. Some places ive observed tows it looked like an impossible task but they alway got the job done. If you are one of those guys you have my respect
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Old 12-03-2012, 08:52 PM   #52
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I have observed tows crossings bars always with a sense of respect, and from a distance. Some places ive observed tows it looked like an impossible task but they alway got the job done. If you are one of those guys you have my respect
Thank you...my inlet breaks...but thankfully nothing like the monster west coast bars
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Old 12-03-2012, 09:05 PM   #53
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That's what happened to HMS Racoon (spelled correctly), ...The crew careened her in Ayala Cove on Angel Island for repairs.
I still associate the place by its former name, "Hospital Cove."

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Old 12-03-2012, 09:05 PM   #54
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Thank you...my inlet breaks...but thankfully nothing like the monster west coast bars
We towed a friend in from about 28 miles offshore. We got back to the inlet well after dark. The waves were not to the point of breaking, but it was like a washing machine in the pass. When we went in Perdido Pass, I was very concerned as to what would happen. Well, I was pleasantly surprised. When my boat would get squirlly the towed boat would jerk me back in line. The same thing worked when the towed boat skewed off. We slipped into the pass like we were on rails. With your towing experience I thought you would know if that would normally be expected.
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Old 12-03-2012, 09:13 PM   #55
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My question is this...if those two boats had been able to crank out a few more knots so as to be able to ride on the backs of the waves, wouldn't they have had a much easier time of that crossing?


Might be there for a while if it's a standing wave
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Old 12-03-2012, 09:44 PM   #56
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Thank you...my inlet breaks...but thankfully nothing like the monster west coast bars
Yes,west coat Bars are foreboding but only a miniscule fraction of the power of Neptune.
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Old 12-03-2012, 10:04 PM   #57
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The Merrimack River is pretty lumpy on the East Coast. My sister has a 50' something Post and it can be pretty hairy going across that bar.
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Old 12-03-2012, 10:14 PM   #58
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Yes,west coat Bars are foreboding but only a miniscule fraction of the power of Neptune.
I've been in 65 foot storm swells in the North Pacific (USCG Icebreaker) and 30 footers, steep bastards in a hurricane in the Gulf of Mexico (210 foot USCG cutter)...nada compared to a breaking bar in ANY sized vessel...
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Old 12-04-2012, 05:49 AM   #59
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the short answer is yes...ride the back of one wave in...

The practical answer...I have never been in a situation where it works out that neat.
So right. We had a pilot (2 guys on a jet ski with a handheld VHF) talk us in when we crossed a bar in El Salvador. You could only cross at high slack. The goal was to not get overtaken or overtake a breaker. We hit over 10 knots surfing down the face. Coming out was just as much of a challenge where timing and the throttle were critical.
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