Coastal Cruising Vs Passagemaking, boat capabilities

[markpierce]

I'll leave passage-making to ships, and the Coot for gunkholing.

 

[hollywood8118]

Me too. But I'd rather have a "sit-in" room rather than a "crawl-in."

Mark, sorry to say that you have not made it far enough into the engine room... or should I call it " space". that is a crawl in engine room!
HOLLYWOOD

 

[markpierce]

Mark, sorry to say that you have not made it far enough into the engine room... or should I call it " space". that is a crawl in engine room!
HOLLYWOOD

Not hardly. I'm not on my knees.

The only time I crawl is when on my knees.

 

[Peter B]

I.....was in the Cebu City last week and saw the N62 pictured below. The marina folks told me it belonged to a Canadian couple who weren't staying aboard as they prefer to stay at a 5-star resort when available. The couple, I was told, plan to cruise the Philippine islands for a year before going to the next country. I think they're doing it the right way.

The rather strange thing about the above story is in my view and experience of going aboard them and lusting after them, at boat shows, of course, is that the Nordhavns, once you get above about 50', are like 5 star hotels in their fit and finish. I think that couple just want to be waited on. If I want that, I go on a cruise liner.
However, a dream I had once would have been to be able to afford a Nordy 55, or maybe 60, (in fact any Nordy from the 47 up is roomy enough for me), and more importantly the time to do it, and I would love to cross oceans and explore places like the coasts of NZ I never got to do when we lived there. We had a trailer yacht there and towed it to most of the North Island lakes, and that was great, but to do whole coasts and cross oceans you do need a really capable vessel, but most of all, the dough to do it with.
My 2iC would not want to do it anyway, and I suspect there are many others on here whose partners are not as keen, so that's that really.
But seriously, it must take a pretty high and continuous income, and not dependent on you being there to generate it yourself, to actually make it possible. Buying the boat is one thing, being able to afford to fill those huge tanks which give you ocean capable range, and keep doing it time after time, on top of all other living expenses....that is the choker In most people's case I suspect. Unless you are independently wealthy, the only way would be to sell all you own, and be prepared to work your way round the world, getting jobs where you could to pay for ongoing costs. Not many are in a position to do that, and I'm sure that is fundamentally why more are not doing it..that and the possibility of falling foul of pirates or being kidnaped for ransom. Something you would think unlikely in this day and age, but sadly a real issue.
On balance then, most of us stay coastal, and I have come to accept that. 'Course if I win Powerball....all bets are off...

 

[markpierce]

We usually stay at a Best Western hotels on land cruises.

 

[FF]

You are lumping ocean crossing in with coastal cruising, and by doing so are exagerating the dangers of simple coastal cruising."

I don't think so , most folks that cruise lakes, bays, rivers, ICW and Sounds such only look at the weather to see how comfortable the day will be .

The decision is do we sit ,stat, or put on to the next anchorage or marina dock.

There is ZERO danger in whatever decision they make as Sea Tow and the Coasties are there 24/7.

Rather a different concept than heading to Keflaveck, the Canaries or Hawaii , tomorrow

 

[Moonstruck]

Why squat and sit when you could stand?

 

[mahal]

The rather strange thing about the above story is in my view and experience of going aboard them and lusting after them, at boat shows, of course, is that the Nordhavns, once you get above about 50', are like 5 star hotels in their fit and finish. I think that couple just want to be waited on. If I want that, I go on a cruise liner.

Peter, I agree that Nordhavns are luxurious, though I don't know about 5 star. Now super yachts with a fully staffed spa, that is more like 5 star. If I had the money like the Nordhavn couple, I too would go to a nice hotel every now and then and my reason for doing so would be to treat my wife. But I will also get massages just so she doesn't feel too guilty about getting a pampering. I have a feeling that is what is going on with the N62 couple.

 

[AKDoug]

Bayliner used to be THE affordable boat and myriads of small boats out there's features are a testimony to Bayliner. They showed the way, there were few comparable boats being made, and Bayliner innovations are in so many modern boats it's amazing. My 1985 2460 Trophy was purchased in Olympia Washington and spent the first three weeks of it's life driving up the Inside Passage to Juneau and making the jump from Cape Spencer to Cordova, ending up in Seward. I wouldn't do it again in that boat, but it was done safely and with zero issues other than waiting for the "right" weather. Some times the story comes down to it being what you can afford, not what you would like to have. I hope to be doing that trip again this May, in a 1999 Willard at 6 knots...

 

[dhmeissner]

Blue Water Medal

2012 Blue Water Medal to David S. Cowper

The Cruising Club of America (CCA) has selected David S. Cowper (Newcastle, England) to receive its Blue Water Medal for his completion of six solo circumnavigations of the World and five solo transits of the Northwest Passage. The Blue Water Medal was first awarded in 1923 and is given “for a most meritorious example if seamanship, the recipient to be selected from among the amateurs of all nations.” The award will be presented by Commodore Daniel P. Dyer, III at the annual Awards Dinner on March 1, 2013 at New York Yacht Club in Manhattan. read more

Congrats!

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

A friend and dock neighbor of mine has a Sea Ray and is pretty proud of it. I commented one day that Sea Rays are just Bayliners with fancy appliances and upholstry. He was not amused!

According to the Bayliner dealer next to my marina, Sea Rays and Bayliners are built on the same assembly lines. I know they use the same engines and drives.

True, but Bayliner (Brunswick) has also sent the mid size bayliners to be made in Brazil and not for sell in the U.S.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Bayliner used to be THE affordable boat and myriads of small boats out there's features are a testimony to Bayliner. They showed the way, there were few comparable boats being made, and Bayliner innovations are in so many modern boats it's amazing. My 1985 2460 Trophy was purchased in Olympia Washington and spent the first three weeks of it's life driving up the Inside Passage to Juneau and making the jump from Cape Spencer to Cordova, ending up in Seward. I wouldn't do it again in that boat, but it was done safely and with zero issues other than waiting for the "right" weather. Some times the story comes down to it being what you can afford, not what you would like to have. I hope to be doing that trip again this May, in a 1999 Willard at 6 knots...

Very cool. Please provide us with pics and regular updates. I am interested in Dent (?) rapids and avoiding Johnstone Strait....

 

[psneeld]

Bayliner facilities are located in Knoxville, Tennessee, Dandridge, Tennessee and Arlington, Washington, in the United States;and in Reynosa, Tamaulipas, in Mexico. Bayliner also has a plant in Portugal for the European market.

Sea Ray is based in Knoxville, Tennessee and operates two factories in Tennessee and two in Florida.[

the above is from wikipedia ....

Some may be built together...some aren't....

Pretty sure the Bigger Sea Rays come out of the Merrit Island facility as that's where I used to pick them up and deliver them to.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Bayliner facilities are located in Knoxville, Tennessee, Dandridge, Tennessee and Arlington, Washington, in the United States;and in Reynosa, Tamaulipas, in Mexico. Bayliner also has a plant in Portugal for the European market.

Sea Ray is based in Knoxville, Tennessee and operates two factories in Tennessee and two in Florida.[

Somemay be built together...some aren't....

Pretty sure the Bigger Sea Rays come out of the Merrit Island facility as that's where I used to pick them up and deliver them to.

A lot is changing in Brunswick. The Merrit Island looks to be shutting down, they are selling Hatteras and Navigator. Not good to be a boat manufacture right now....

 

[IslandEagle]

Blue Water Medal The Cruising Club of America (CCA) has selected David S. Cowper (Newcastle, England) to receive its Blue Water Medal for his completion of six solo circumnavigations of the World and five solo transits of the Northwest Passage.]

Thanks for posting this, it's great to see. It's a bit of a long story, but on his first trip through the North West Passage, his boat grounded and sank on Somerset Island, and my father helped him get it ashore, patched up, and back in the water (a non-trivial task as the boat was 200 miles away from any settlement). For a while, it looked like I might even get to head up there and help work on the twin Gardners, but they both fired right up despite being underwater for a full summer and at -50F for two winters.

His book is a great read, long out of print though:
Northwest Passage Solo: Amazon.co.uk: David Cowper: Books

Germane to this thread is the fact that David circumnavigated on the Mabel E. Holland twice, despite the fact that it was most certainly not designed for passagemaking. No stabilization, minimal fuel capacity, really not much of anything in the way of accommodation. Yes, it was capable of withstanding a rollover, but the stability was abysmal, especially since he had to carry his fuel in several hundred 5 gallon jerry cans tied to the rails.

But he made it.

Scott Welch
Island Eagle

 

[Codger2]

Crossing the Bar

Incredible video - fishing boats in rough sea - YouTube

 

[Marin]

Other than providing product support I believe Bayliner's once flagship plant in Arlington, WA is now shut down.

 

[psneeld]

Other than providing product support I believe Bayliner's once flagship plant in Arlington, WA is now shut down.

I think that did show up on other internet posts...just like many of the Sea Ray places are on the chopping block...

I just threw out the old list of plants because I knew that Sea Rays were not all made in the same place, to the same standards or using the same components...so while some may be similar to other Brunswick products...not so entirely.

I've said it before and it's worth repeating every time Sea Ray orBbayliner bashing comes up....look real close at any boat...especially after a dealer is done with it. I have seen Sea Rays come from the factory that meet every ABYC standard that I could think of/remember. I have also seen much pricier boats start OK...but once a dealer is done installing options or fixing factory issues..there are many glaring items or cheapening of the product.

Bashing any production boat nowadays is for the morons of the boating world.

Sure there are good boats, really nice boats and dreamboats...that doesn't make any of them perfect...so talking trash is just that.

 

[healhustler]

I wouldn't dare belittle Sea Rays or Bayliners. Every boat show I've gone to in the last 8 years or so, I visit their displays because they are better than any Mfg. I know of in how to get the most out of a space. I'm always looking for a better idea to do a mod. Up until recently, of course, Silverton was also quite good with ideas.

 

[AKDoug]

Bayliner never stopped improving their use of available space, or refining their products. I watched the model I bought slowly evolve and correct issues from the water off the roof dripping into and onto the side windows on down the line. They were very responsive to what people wanted and open to trying lots of innovations. Other manufacturers only had to take a look at Bayliner to see what worked and what didn't. They saved the "new" manufacturers a huge amount of R&D for any given buyers market. That said, they used cheap parts on their smaller boats, because they never dreamed anyone would actually use them as hard as some people do

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Oh I was not brand bashing, but there is a friendly revelry between the two owners groups. But then again..:lol:

 

[caltexflanc]

I used to think, by flipping through magazines and looking on the internet, that the N62 was just the boat for me. Then I went on one (Ken Williams' old boat) after living on and Coastal Cruising my present boat for awhile. I thought I'd dove into a rabbit's warren. I can see why that couple would prefer hotels when the option was available. Not for the claustrophobic! A great boat to be underway in while crossing an ocean? yes, I think so. A great boat to live in? No thanks! It was no mystery to me why Ken left his in the Med and came back and bought a much bigger "BloatHavn" version.

 

[bobofthenorth]

Oh I was not brand bashing, but there is a friendly revelry between the two owners groups. But then again..:lol:

Yah - some people need to lighten up. On our dock we were really thankful last summer when a Searay showed up. It gave the Bayliner owners somebody to look down on.

 

[markpierce]

... Then I went on one (Ken Williams' old boat) after living on and Coastal Cruising my present boat for awhile. I thought I'd dove into a rabbit's warren. I can see why that couple would prefer hotels when the option was available. Not for the claustrophobic! A great boat to be underway in while crossing an ocean? yes, I think so. A great boat to live in? No thanks! It was no mystery to me why Ken left his in the Med and came back and bought a much bigger "BloatHavn" version.

At sea/underway, I want hand-holds within arm's distance. If one "boats" in a marina, have a boat laid out like a land-house.

 

[long-cours.62]

I have friend

You're probably right there on all issues.

Its kinda funny, this internet thing.

You can go on a forum and talk about your TT, which we all know have had their fair share of issues, some very serious and nobody knocks your boat.

Mention you have a Bayliner, even a large one like mine and some uninformed ding a ling will slam your boat for no other reason than brand bias.

The funny thing is that never happens in person. Walking the docks, we are all a community of boaters.

I am VERY THANKFUL that since coming here in 2010 as a guy looking for a large cruising boat, to today, that there has been very little brand bashing here on TF.

This is a great community, and I amp happy to participate.

BTW, the Bayliner Owners Club, where I moderate the Motoryachts forum was started many years ago to escape brand bashing. Now there are over 15,000 members. Many TF members came from the BOC, like myself as their boating moved to larger boats. Many here still participate in both forums.

TF is great because the discussions are not brand specific. This opens up allot more conversations about things all boat brands share in common.

He is the owner of same Bayliner ( Bay it's means baie in French ?:lol
The problem for real passagemaking is , in my point of view, the big volume of the cockpit and the size of the door in glass, and in moderate seas he must slow down even slowler than a passagemaker.( in bad weather it became "difficult")
If I must make a passage, sure I will not buy a boat like your , but in another hand 30 year ago a 9m boat with big windows and door cross the North Atlantic from USA to Paris ...

Our idea of a passagemaker is quiet different than your , but may be I am "paranoiac" !? Or "affraid by sea ?!

"Passagemaker" cherchez l'erreur ! - Trawler long-cours

 

[caltexflanc]

He is the owner of same Bayliner ( Bay it's means baie in French ?:lol
The problem for real passagemaking is , in my point of view, the big volume of the cockpit and the size of the door in glass, and in moderate seas he must slow down even slowler than a passagemaker.( in bad weather it became "difficult")
If I must make a passage, sure I will not buy a boat like your , but in another hand 30 year ago a 9m boat with big windows and door cross the North Atlantic from USA to Paris ...

Our idea of a passagemaker is quiet different than your , but may be I am "paranoiac" !? Or "affraid by sea ?!

"Passagemaker" cherchez l'erreur ! - Trawler long-cours

That's a cool looking boat! I remember Beebe in his book talking about the high desirability of having a boat that could easily be converted to running in the French canals. Having seen a few parts of them it sure makes sense. After all, what's the point of taking your boat somewhere via crossing an ocean and not enjoying every beautiful boating destination once you get there?

 

[caltexflanc]

At sea/underway, I want hand-holds within arm's distance. If one "boats" in a marina, have a boat laid out like a land-house.

Exactly. Thus the range of boat designs from houseboat to coastal cruiser to passage maker. Horses for courses as we say at the track.

You don't need a rabbit's warren to have hand holds convenient, but they do lessen the distance you body or other objects can travel if the hold isn't so good.

 

[Marin]

With regards to the interior spaces of a Nordhavn, a timely reminder of the dangers of rough seas can be found in the ongoing Bounty investigation. Prior tho the loss of the vessel the captain and at least one other crew member were severely injured when they were thrown violently about in a compartment.

 

[caltexflanc]

With regards to the interior spaces of a Nordhavn, a timely reminder of the dangers of rough seas can be found in the ongoing Bounty investigation. Prior tho the loss of the vessel the captain and at least one other crew member were severely injured when they were thrown violently about in a compartment.

Marin, where did you read that? There is no mention of that in the gCaptain blog that Charles Cullotta linked. Just that one guy was thrown from "port to starboard", no mention of the size of the compartment or even if he was in a compartment. Do you have a link to more detail? This really good reading.

By the way, in a bad seaway you could still do yourself some serious damage being thrown from once side to the other or fore to aft in the salon or pilot house of a Nordhavn 62 or 55, the two N's I have spent some time on beyond a few minutes at a boat show.

 

[IslandEagle]

Marin, where did you read that? There is no mention of that in the gCaptain blog that Charles Cullotta linked. Just that one guy was thrown from "port to starboard", no mention of the size of the compartment or even if he was in a compartment. Do you have a link to more detail? This really good reading.

By the way, in a bad seaway you could still do yourself some serious damage being thrown from once side to the other or fore to aft in the salon or pilot house of a Nordhavn 62 or 55, the two N's I have spent some time on beyond a few minutes at a boat show.

Here's the quote from gCaptain:

When Adam Prokosh fell from port to starboard on the tween deck and broke his back and ribs, he was instantly made incompetent as an able seaman.

As for being thrown: it can happen in smaller boats too. The wife of a good friend of mine was on a passage from Seattle to San Francisco on a 35' sailboat, an unexpected wave threw her into the table. She though she had broken a rib, although it turned out be be only a bruise. In any even, she was unable to move around for days, leaving my friend to run the boat single-handed and care for the kids 24 hours a day.

Scott Welch
Island Eagle