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Old 03-24-2014, 11:12 PM   #61
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Yes, get on your Vhf and say "yo Pedro, where you at, the yayo is getting wet. I'm anchored on the east side of the trash island, bring cash this time".
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Old 03-24-2014, 11:21 PM   #62
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Along the same lines... the instructor in the Captain's course told us now to volunteer that we were licensed Captains because the boarding chiefs would hold us to a higher standard... any experiences here?
I assume you meant NOT instead of NOW? And I would tend to not volunteer and, if it came up, to not claim experience but remain humble. If they think you should know they'll be less tolerant than thinking you might not have been aware of a rule. And if they think you're a "know it all" type, then their tolerance will greatly diminish as they show you what you didn't know in their opinion.
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Old 03-25-2014, 08:43 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Earl34Mainship View Post
Along the same lines... the instructor in the Captain's course told us now to volunteer that we were licensed Captains because the boarding chiefs would hold us to a higher standard... any experiences here?
I think you meant NOT to volunteer.

As a former instructor I agree with "not" to volunteer that info because it's just more info to allow the boarding team to confuse themselves whether you "should" be held to a higher standard.

Answer questions like you are sure of the answer (if you are"...reference where you know it from.

I have stated keeping printed copies of policies from high up or reputable sources that may keep the boarding team from digging in their heels on the wrong side of a gray area.

A good example is the tie wrap on your holding tank overboard seacock. If you have the letter from the USCG Commandant (which I'm searching for) or another printed reference saying the "key switch" option is "allowed/acceptable"...it's things like that that may make a boarding go smoother...even if just from the point of view that your knowledgeable and care to be in compliance...but the captain thing can as much of a hinderance than a help in some minds.
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Old 03-25-2014, 08:50 AM   #64
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........... If you have the letter from the USCG Commandant (which I'm searching for) or another printed reference saying the "key switch" option is "allowed/acceptable".............
How much trouble would it be for them to just amend the regulations to include that option?

It seems it would be easier than for thousands of boaters to request letters.
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Old 03-25-2014, 09:02 AM   #65
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How much trouble would it be for them to just amend the regulations to include that option?

It seems it would be easier than for thousands of boaters to request letters.

Feel free to start the campaign......

Why I'm not to wrapped up about it is there are brand new boats with only that option as they don't have a seacock...just an above the water thru-hull...
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Old 03-25-2014, 09:46 AM   #66
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I have stated keeping printed copies of policies from high up or reputable sources that may keep the boarding team from digging in their heels on the wrong side of a gray area.

A good example is the tie wrap on your holding tank overboard seacock. If you have the letter from the USCG Commandant (which I'm searching for) or another printed reference saying the "key switch" option is "allowed/acceptable"...it's things like that that may make a boarding go smoother...even if just from the point of view that your knowledgeable and care to be in compliance...but the captain thing can as much of a hinderance than a help in some minds.
Paul, can you expand on that a bit. I don't understand what you mean by "key switch" option. I have my holding tank "locked closed" with a plastic tie wrap because I've heard it is acceptable, but have no documentation to prove it.
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Old 03-25-2014, 10:06 AM   #67
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Paul, can you expand on that a bit. I don't understand what you mean by "key switch" option. I have my holding tank "locked closed" with a plastic tie wrap because I've heard it is acceptable, but have no documentation to prove it.
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Paul, can you expand on that a bit. I don't understand what you mean by "key switch" option. I have my holding tank "locked closed" with a plastic tie wrap because I've heard it is acceptable, but have no documentation to prove it.
The tie wrap is pretty well accepted except in areas where something more drastic is required by locals or even lake wide such as handle removal and hose removal.

But a few years back some boat builders decided less sea cocks were better and the discharge port was above the waterline with no sea cock to secure and just a button on the electrical panel to discharge. Some cruisers decided to take it one step further by putting a key switch in and placing the key in a secure spot.

After years of boarding teams getting into arguments over all this...the office of the USCG Commandant (may have been a subordinate office with proper authority) came out and described acceptable methods beyond what the CFRs state.

If I find anything today or soon...I'll make sure I share it.
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Old 03-25-2014, 11:18 AM   #68
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psneeld--very informative document. Thank you for the posting. I'm passing this along to my friend with the $750 fine. Perhaps he will re-think his position.
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Old 03-25-2014, 11:26 AM   #69
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It seems to me the logic behind the locked seacock is not to prevent you from discharging sewage but to prevent you from discharging sewage by accident. A key switch on the discharge pump accomplishes the same thing.

I learned about it from Peggie Hall who literally wrote the book on marine sanitation systems.
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Old 03-25-2014, 11:28 AM   #70
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Logic tells us that a key switch on the macerator (as long as you don't leave the key in the switch) is as effective as a nylon tie or removing the handle but we can't count on every LEO to use logic. Many of these folks are not boaters and don't understand what they are looking at they are just following a set of rules that they have been given.
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Old 03-25-2014, 11:37 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
The tie wrap is pretty well accepted except in areas where something more drastic is required by locals or even lake wide such as handle removal and hose removal.

But a few years back some boat builders decided less sea cocks were better and the discharge port was above the waterline with no sea cock to secure and just a button on the electrical panel to discharge. Some cruisers decided to take it one step further by putting a key switch in and placing the key in a secure spot.

After years of boarding teams getting into arguments over all this...the office of the USCG Commandant (may have been a subordinate office with proper authority) came out and described acceptable methods beyond what the CFRs state.

If I find anything today or soon...I'll make sure I share it.
I remember that too from my Auxiliary days. ...ty-wrap, padlock on the seacock, keylock switch, 2 switches in series, locked head compartment... There were multiple acceptable ways to comply. The whole point was to require at least 2 actions to prevent accidental discharge.
I'll have to find the CFR bases but here is the CGAuxiliary VSC Manual (http://www.uscg.mil/directives/cim/1...6_8.pdfwording )page 26 as it exists today:


No-Discharge Areas.

Vessels shall not discharge sewage overboard in an area designated as no discharge. A Type I or II flow-through MSD must be adequately secured while the vessel is in a no-discharge area to prevent any overboard discharge of treated or untreated sewage, such as:

Closing the seacock and padlocking, using a non-releasable wire-tie, or removing the seacock handle,


Locking the door to the head with the owner/operator in possession of the key in not-discharge controlled areas.


A combination of switches that have to be pressed simultaneously or


Switches that can only be turned on after inserting a key.
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Old 03-25-2014, 11:51 AM   #72
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google USCGAux checklist
Brilliantly simple idea! Thank you. Good call.
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Old 03-25-2014, 12:01 PM   #73
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How about a digital copy of the USCG Rules of the Road. Is a digital copy adequate? We had USCG courtesy inspection a while back and the inspector was pretty persistent that we had to have a hard copy. The 3 times the USCG have done a safety check, they never asked. A digital copy is on the lap top in the pilot house.
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Old 03-25-2014, 02:15 PM   #74
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How about a digital copy of the USCG Rules of the Road. Is a digital copy adequate? We had USCG courtesy inspection a while back and the inspector was pretty persistent that we had to have a hard copy. The 3 times the USCG have done a safety check, they never asked. A digital copy is on the lap top in the pilot house.
Not usually...but I think if you had it on CD and several ways to display them...I'm not sure that many boarding officers wouldn't accept it on an uninspected boat. Especially if you can display it as fast as someone could by pulling down a book and looking up a rule or lighting or day mark.
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Old 03-25-2014, 02:18 PM   #75
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Dont forget the required placards either.

Garbage disposal plan, no drugs , report all injuries etc.

>we can't count on every LEO to use logic,<
but they can find crap in a rule book to fine most any but the most cautious.

If they dig hard enough they could find those unapproved LED in the anchor light!

Remember they know to the hour their retirement date , and have basically nothing to do till that hour.
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Old 03-25-2014, 02:21 PM   #76
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I'd go to the source for answers and not rely on an internet 'expert' as hmason learned.

http://www.uscg.mil/directives/cim/1...im_16796_8.pdf
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Old 03-25-2014, 02:43 PM   #77
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I'd go to the source for answers and not rely on an internet 'expert' as hmason learned.

http://www.uscg.mil/directives/cim/1...im_16796_8.pdf
Good reference for the Axillary VSC. It goes with what Scott says as far as the Rules of the Road goes.


The owner or operator of each self-propelled vessel 39.4
feet or more shall carry on board and maintain for ready
reference a copy of the Navigation Rules. When it is required
to carry a copy of the Rules aboard, a complete copy must be carried.

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Old 03-25-2014, 02:51 PM   #78
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........... Remember they know to the hour their retirement date , and have basically nothing to do till that hour.
I think that's pretty unfair to working folks. Most people have good intentions and try their best to do what they are paid to do.
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Old 03-25-2014, 03:11 PM   #79
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Remember they know to the hour their retirement date , and have basically nothing to do till that hour.
That's kind of harsh, don't you think, Fred? Many folks work up to retirement at full speed until their last day. I've known many good, hard workers who have done that. I know I did it and I have the video to prove it.
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Old 03-25-2014, 04:33 PM   #80
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That's kind of harsh, don't you think, Fred? Many folks work up to retirement at full speed until their last day. I've known many good, hard workers who have done that. I know I did it and I have the video to prove it.
Full speed, indeed. Flywright worked up until retirement at over 400 knots.
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