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Old 02-06-2013, 04:27 PM   #21
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...boat size is not important. What's important is the...
...PERSON! Please don't take this the wrong way, but finding the right boat is the easy part. Are you ready for 18-20 days at sea? If something breaks you're it? You have to fix it, there is no one else. Single vs twins, only kidding forum members. All kidding aside, it's a great trip but don't over look the mental part of ocean passages and circumnavigating.
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Old 02-06-2013, 08:28 PM   #22
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I think you guys are all wuss's......

Two teenage girls did it recently (singlehanded) in production fiberglass sailboats of less than 40', Webb Chiles almost did it in a stock 18' open Drascombe Lugger, and 1991 Anthony "Ant" Steward sailed the 19' open NCS Challenger around.

One of the first "average" guys to do it was Dutchman Eilco Kasemier in the 39' Bylgia II, he circumnavigated in 198 days in 1983-84. Bylgia is aluminum, round-bottomed full displacement, with a single Perkins (I think?) diesel.

An American did it in a modified 24' Zodiac called Sunrider. He had two Yanmar diesel outboards that ran on vegetable oil.

So boat size is not important. What's important is that the boat be strongly built and truly watertight. A reliable power plant is also important. Everything after that is nice to have, but not strictly necessary....Personally I'd like a Gardner and stabilizers (paravanes).
Without stabilizers, one's Martini tends to slop out of the glass, which is not acceptable.
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Old 02-06-2013, 09:40 PM   #23
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Problem solved!

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Without stabilizers, one's Martini tends to slop out of the glass, which is not acceptable.
Carl,
Passage making one needs to think out of the box.... problem solved!

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Old 02-06-2013, 09:45 PM   #24
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I figure if I can get the Admiral to cross oceans again the boat will be a N46, one can be had for well under $ 500,000 and they have a proven record as a true passage maker that will get you there. If the budget allows for a bigger boat that will be a different story. But as a boat that a couple can manage, has fairly low cost per mile, has decent space.. they are hard to match.
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Old 02-06-2013, 10:46 PM   #25
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Carl,
Passage making one needs to think out of the box.... problem solved!

HOLLYWOOD
Of course. Why didn't I think of that? Thanks Hollywood!
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Old 02-07-2013, 05:43 AM   #26
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I'm thinking about crossing the Pacific, using my 'coastal trawler'. Right now I'm thinking just once, one way and the shortest practical route at the best times of the year for each sector. If you do even just a little bit of a bit of research you will come to agree with Beebe's figure for range: 2400nm is enough. Unless you plan on getting lost or driving in circles.

My key unresolved concerns are green water - vulnerable windows and down-flooding, and flooding engine room via its ventilation system. Sure I'll get weather-routing, but in planning the 'what-ifs' need to be asked. People do get caught in storms.... I've no intention of dying while I'm doing it.

Anyone who thinks its cheaper and easier to ship a 50' trawler across oceans has not got an actual shipping quote recently.
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Old 02-07-2013, 05:46 AM   #27
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The big problem is the boat must be constucted to be an ocean crossing vessel from the begining.

This equals a hull , and deck and Pilot house that can take a series of waves breaking on board. This level of scantlings is very rare and very expensive on a power boat tho std on even most small sail boats.

The interior will loose the volume of extra large fuel and water tanks , as well as space for food stores.For reliability at least 2 power sources and 2 seperiate systems would be required for refrigeration , deep freeze.

Unless the crew is very skilled all items aboard should be looked at as AFTER failure, how will the vessel continue with least hassles.

Most boats that can cross oceans 2000-4000 mile range will be large and complex as they usually are custom created for a specific owner .

This is Big Bucks , so used they are expensive , and rare.

The usual lakes, bays and coastal cruiser does not have the "bones" to be converted to offshore use.

A used Euro motor sailor would be lowest cost source of a suitable vessel.
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Old 02-07-2013, 06:25 AM   #28
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This equals a hull , and deck and Pilot house that can take a series of waves breaking on board. This level of scantlings is very rare and very expensive on a power boat tho std on even most small sail boats.
I keep hearing the word 'stability', but invariably with the word 'booze' in the same sentence! Now then, what are these stabilisers you all talk about?

And what is the stability of trawlers? I mean, I know that on sailing yachts, thanks to our keel, we can roll beyond 90 degrees (I think even 120 in most cases) and the boat will right itself. How far can you roll in a trawler?
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Old 02-07-2013, 07:13 AM   #29
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110 degrees in my Krogen 42, according to their specs. I hope to never prove that.
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Old 02-07-2013, 07:50 AM   #30
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One that's been around for a long time but maybe someone hasn't seen it.
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Old 02-07-2013, 08:11 AM   #31
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Friends were seriously in peril a couple of years ago when their 55ft motorsailer was hit suddenly by a "rogue" wave that came out of nowhere, while heading south from Bermuda. Boat was pretty near incapacitated with smashed windows and fried electronics. They are experienced sailors with several transatlantic crossings. You just can not predict what will happen out there. Trying to pick a "window" for 2 weeks or so of "good" weather is a "fool's game" IMO. Kind of like gambling. You might be lucky, but then you might not. I think very few 50ft vessels are suited to this adventure, and despite owning a 50ft long range trawler, I think such a trip is best undertaken in a large sailing vessel with small portholes and very good scuppers. Also, I prefer my martinis shaken, not stirred!!
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Old 02-07-2013, 08:36 AM   #32
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I'm thinking about crossing the Pacific, using my 'coastal trawler'. Right now I'm thinking just once, one way and the shortest practical route at the best times of the year for each sector. If you do even just a little bit of a bit of research you will come to agree with Beebe's figure for range: 2400nm is enough. Unless you plan on getting lost or driving in circles.

My key unresolved concerns are green water - vulnerable windows and down-flooding, and flooding engine room via its ventilation system. Sure I'll get weather-routing, but in planning the 'what-ifs' need to be asked. People do get caught in storms.... I've no intention of dying while I'm doing it.

Anyone who thinks its cheaper and easier to ship a 50' trawler across oceans has not got an actual shipping quote recently.
When we crossed the Pacific to Australia, in 2000 and 2001 (on a 42.5' sailboat) we never saw winds over 30 knots or seas over 4 meters. The only green water we saw was between Tonga and New Zealand and you aren't going that way. Those years were average weather years. The weather in Pacific is defined by seasons. We left in early March before the trade winds were established and arrived at the end of cyclone season in the Pacific. A transition period. Our first landfall was in the Marquesas where fuel is available.

Last year, in Panama, we watched a 49' Defever get ready to go via the Galapagos. He was doing stability tests with 10-55 gallon drums lashed on board. He wanted the extra fuel capacity. We know of a 53' Selene leaving this spring also from Panama. When are you leaving?
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Old 02-07-2013, 09:16 AM   #33
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I'm thinking about crossing the Pacific, using my 'coastal trawler'. .
Many "coastal" vessels venture far offshore for fishing, fun and deliveries. It sounds like a wonderful experience to work your through the various issues and planning.

Five reads that are current, if you've not done so:
  • Brian Calvert's blog for his crossing from NA to Australia on his 48' Selene. Communicate with Brian, he is very open.
  • Tony Athen's trips across both Pacific and Atlantic on 65' Fleming
  • Various logs on Nordhavn's website
  • Dashew's WIndhorse
  • Dahew's "Surviving the Storm" It is specific for the worst waters you will see.
I'd guess you already have talked directly with experienced Pacific voyagers for tips, hints and reality checks? Storm windows, necessary fuel, no schedule and good weather routing via weather fax and SSB will help fill out the list. The worst part of the trip may well be the West Coast of the US. After all the work you've done, you should have a very good feel for the vessel's soundness and range. Maybe a trip to Barkley Sound will help get you, crew and your vessel tested.
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Old 02-07-2013, 09:58 AM   #34
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What's the longest crossing? If it's North America to Hawaii then a circumnavigation by sea kayak should be possible by a suitably motivated individual, because Ed Gillette did it...solo...before GPS. Viking longboats got around a bit too. Bigger isn't necessarily better
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:02 AM   #35
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Several Atlantic crossings have been made in small "rowing" boats, as well. Not my idea of fun at sea!!
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:26 AM   #36
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I'm thinking about crossing the Pacific, using my 'coastal trawler'. Right now I'm thinking just once, one way and the shortest practical route at the best times of the year for each sector. If you do even just a little bit of a bit of research you will come to agree with Beebe's figure for range: 2400nm is enough. Unless you plan on getting lost or driving in circles.
Will you be able to take advantage of favorable currents?
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Old 02-07-2013, 03:01 PM   #37
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110 degrees in my Krogen 42, according to their specs. I hope to never prove that.
I really doubt that...It's possible, but unlikely. I'll believe it if whoever did the calculations inclined the boat to establish a real life VCG (not a guesstimate) and measured floatation to establish real life displacement. The difference in stability between full and empty tanks will also be substantial.

Most average "trawler yachts" will run out of positive stability at between 70 and 80 degrees heel. A few years back I did studies of a DD44 and Nordhavn 55 and that was the conclusion.

The good news is that heeling more than about 50 degrees is very rare in modern motor yacht cruising. The exception being in bar crossing situations. When was the last time you heard of a motor yacht being capsized by a wave? Downflooding is the greater danger, via broken windows or open vents.
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Old 02-07-2013, 03:53 PM   #38
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Will you be able to take advantage of favorable currents?
Brian Should have favorable currents with the exception of right at the equator. Since he is heading to OZ and leaving maybe from MX, he'll be in the NE trades after he leaves NA but with most of his time in the SE trades. The main cause of surface currents is the direction of the winds, which the majority of the time, will be aft of the beam. There's a reason his most likely trip is referred to as the Coconut Milk Run.

A good book for passage planning is Jimmy Cornell's, World Cruising Routes. He gets in to good discussions of over 500 routes around the word, which include the best time of year, currents, weather, etc.
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Old 02-07-2013, 06:03 PM   #39
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Last year, in Panama, we watched a 49' Defever get ready to go via the Galapagos. He was doing stability tests with 10-55 gallon drums lashed on board. He wanted the extra fuel capacity. We know of a 53' Selene leaving this spring also from Panama. When are you leaving?
Larry
Undecided on departure date, there are no deadlines to meet. First will be some shakedown cruises in the PNW this coming Spring and Summer. Once I'm happy with all the new systems - which is pretty much everything - then if its still a reasonable time of the year to head to San Fran I'll do that to get a taste for what the trip might be like. Plan B is Dockwise ex: Costa Rica. Or I could wait another year, and visit SE Alaska in the interim.

I'm not keen on lashing a lot of drums of fuel on board. I have 5000 litres in my new, enlarged tanks. I'll have the range - but don't know the speed yet.... If speed is a bit low after sea trials/cruising tests then I'll add temporary fuel, but in bladders.
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Old 02-07-2013, 06:06 PM   #40
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Many "coastal" vessels venture far offshore for fishing, fun and deliveries. It sounds like a wonderful experience to work your through the various issues and planning.

Five reads that are current, if you've not done so:
  • Brian Calvert's blog for his crossing from NA to Australia on his 48' Selene. Communicate with Brian, he is very open.
  • Tony Athen's trips across both Pacific and Atlantic on 65' Fleming
  • Various logs on Nordhavn's website
  • Dashew's WIndhorse
  • Dahew's "Surviving the Storm" It is specific for the worst waters you will see.
I'd guess you already have talked directly with experienced Pacific voyagers for tips, hints and reality checks? Storm windows, necessary fuel, no schedule and good weather routing via weather fax and SSB will help fill out the list. The worst part of the trip may well be the West Coast of the US. After all the work you've done, you should have a very good feel for the vessel's soundness and range. Maybe a trip to Barkley Sound will help get you, crew and your vessel tested.
I've only read part of these - thanks for the list. I definitely want some miles logged in PNW before leaving.
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