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Old 11-10-2019, 12:04 AM   #21
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Would you care to expand this to the engines. What brand and model? is this the original owner?
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Old 11-10-2019, 12:18 AM   #22
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To fully check the batteries would require so much survey time it is just not worthwhile. I`m looking at something with 3 recently replaced sealed start batts.The 4 house 8Ds have screwcaps,any life left in them is a bonus.
I`d be more concerned about a 500K boat where the owner can`t be bothered to hole punch the service invoices and put them in a ringbinder(or electronic equivalent). There may be a reason you are not seeing any maintenance records, it may be good,bad,or indifferent.
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Old 11-10-2019, 06:03 AM   #23
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Consider fuel in the tanks you are probably not being charged for a wash on the age and condition of the batts.
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Old 11-10-2019, 06:05 AM   #24
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It is good to know if the batteries are an immediate concern. I have seen plenty of times where the time it took for a short haul was enough to cause worn batteries to struggle restarting or not starting engines. Problem is that larger battery banks will start engines even when in poor condition.

I bought a Midtronics battery tester a few years ago and it is a quick and has proven to be a reliable indicator of battery condition. The one I have has a printer so I can "show" the results. Single batteries are easy to test and large banks usually have one or more that can be separated by removing only one cable without disabling the entire system. If one or more of a gang of siblings fails one can pretty well count on the rest being in the same shape.

One other low tech test is to observe the temperature of the batteries. If they are warm that may indicate they are shorted internally. If they are covered you will know as soon as you raise the lid. A quick touch will tell you where the heat is coming from.

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Originally Posted by Kawini View Post
I’m under contract on a 2007 boat, and about to go to surveys. Of my many concerns is the current state of the batteries (house, starter, genset, and thrusters) and whether they will need to be replaced relatively promptly.

Can I get some feedback, please, on whether it’s possible to assess the current quality and expected future longevity of the batteries during a survey? Is this possible during a day, or does it require a longer discharge/charge/discharge cycle.

Thanks very much in advance.
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Old 11-10-2019, 07:56 AM   #25
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Based on your statements on how much you like the boat and soft selling the sellers shortcomings on maintenance, records and responsiveness, I am guessing you want buy the boat regardless and are looking for some reinforcement. There are a lot of fish in the sea and probably of the same make/model you are looking at. Too many red flags to spend that kind of money.
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Old 11-10-2019, 08:47 AM   #26
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You must be a little on the new side of T.F. to talking of buying a $500,000 boat and not include any pictures for us. Shame on you.

Sometimes when I buy something new for my boat I do it because it just makes me feel good. Batteries are one of those things. I get a warm fuzzy feeling knowing I have 7 or 8 brand new batteries below. All the others are right, treat the batteries like they are junk and buy new ones. Personally I like low tech, lead acid batteries from a reputable manufacturer and dealer but the choice is yours.

Probably of more concern would be the 15 year old electronics, toilets, lines, fenders,canvas, etc. All these things need to be inspected and probably replaced, given the age of the boat.
Rather than nit pick the present owner about one or two items that are questionable like batteries or a radio or gps. Just tell him all the items I have listed above are acceptable but are showing their age and you would like to have a few dollars left in your pocket to replace them. He sure should come down at least enough to cover half of the items.

If all of those aging items are in Bristol condition it shows he is keeping the boat up well and just bite the bullet on the batteries and maybe a few other items and write the check. ( you know you want to)

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Old 11-10-2019, 09:11 AM   #27
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Expensive boat.

The owner did all the work himself? Does he seem like a mechanic or hands on guy? He probably paid someone to perform something. He may not have receipts, but whoever did the work likely does. Ask for permission to get access. Did he keep the boat in one place. Ask that marina who has been working on the boat. Just looking over the boat carefully will show what is newer versus older. Bolt heads with missing paint or scratches from wrenches. Mismatching gaskets or sealants. Look for one engine having anything the other does not. Newer clean hoses versus dirty older ones. Wires not inside a bundle or zip strip. Non matching paint. Almost every bit of service leaves a tell tale sign. Records exist, if you cannot find them you should ask yourself why. Also, you can ask for the owners signature on a questionnaire that covers important questions such as “ has the boat ever partially or completely been submerged” “ has it ever been the subject of an insurance claim or legal proceeding” “ and any other concern you want an answer to. Do your due diligence and then let it go. You can only do so much. Batteries are not something I would spend much time on and only as an indicator of how the boat was kept up. I hope it works out well for you.
I spoke to my neighbor over the fence yesterday. His purchase of a 60 hour , new 46 sea ray was held up by issues such as what you are struggling with. He got everything checked professionally and all legal documents the way he wanted. On the way home one of the cummins lost oil pressure. Oil filter full of metal. Had to truck it home from there. The trucks trailer broke down on the way home and it sat in a parking lot for a few days while the rig was fixed. My point- you can do everything right and still face major issues. All part of being a boat owner.
Ps- I sold my Bertram with very single receipt since it’s purchase new in 1976. The file was over a foot thick, the other half was at the servicing shop who keeps ALL receipts.
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Old 11-10-2019, 09:35 AM   #28
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moparharm brings up an interesting point. Almost all repairs and service leaves some sign. It may be obvious, like the owner telling you all the batteries are brand new. They look new and are dated and he hands you the receipt. Good, no need to question it.

There may be a paint chip on a heat exchanger, does it need to be questioned? Probably not, it might have been checked, replaced, tightened or removed for some other reason. Maybe an injector pump is a different color than the other. So what, who cares? It failed and was replaced. Even brand new parts fail. Don't read too much into it.

Just buy the boat already, you know you want it.

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Old 11-10-2019, 09:56 AM   #29
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I don’t disagree with Pete, but

You are reviewing your purchase and want to know as much about the boat as you can possibly learn. In the end you will either accept the condition or reject it. But.......
“ I see one cylinder head is painted differently from the rest of the motor”. “ was there head work?”
Oh yeah I forgot to mention I had an overheat last year and blew a gasket.
1. Who did the work?
2. Was the repair just a gasket?
3. Did you deck the head?
4. How much did you deck the head?
5. What thickness head gasket did you use?
6. Did you do a valve job?
In this regard I do not agree with “who cares”. These are important questions that effect the current, and future operation of the boat.
Knowing as much as you can is fun, prepares you for the future, and in this purchase tells you a lot about who you are buying your boat from.
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Old 11-10-2019, 11:20 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Kawini View Post
I’ll just have to be taking a few big gulps here. If the boat weren’t so attractive in other respects, one of us might well have walked by this point. But perhaps I’m being overly sensitive and careful, because this is my first boat purchase and it’s in the $500k range.
IMO, batteries are about the last thing you need to worry about. A big gulp is if you miss the need to overhaul a main engine or genset, or if you fail to discover wet coring, delamination, or blistering.
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Old 11-10-2019, 11:37 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moparharn View Post
You are reviewing your purchase and want to know as much about the boat as you can possibly learn. In the end you will either accept the condition or reject it. But.......
“ I see one cylinder head is painted differently from the rest of the motor”. “ was there head work?”
Oh yeah I forgot to mention I had an overheat last year and blew a gasket.
1. Who did the work?
2. Was the repair just a gasket?
3. Did you deck the head?
4. How much did you deck the head?
5. What thickness head gasket did you use?
6. Did you do a valve job?
In this regard I do not agree with “who cares”. These are important questions that effect the current, and future operation of the boat.
Knowing as much as you can is fun, prepares you for the future, and in this purchase tells you a lot about who you are buying your boat from.
Big difference in "who cares" about maybe $1000 worth of batteries which many would replace anyhow....and possible engine work on a $500,000 boat and who knows what engines.

And wow...I keep all receipts too....OF current stuff. Every receipt???? including stuff that no longer is on the boat or has been replaced?

Records and receipts might tell you something...not a guarantee...any more or less than a lck thereof.
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Old 11-10-2019, 12:38 PM   #32
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If and when I sell my boat, photos of my had written maintenance log books will be available electronically, and a copy will be left on the boast for inspection by prospective buyers.

Good log books are a selling tool, as well as a great took for the owner for tips and tricks to do things, part numbers of things replaced, even clean painted performance Vs dirty hull performance.
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Old 11-10-2019, 03:43 PM   #33
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Again, I want to thank everybody for weighing in with their opinions. It’s really helpful and encouraging to have lots of intelligence and experience out there, and I appreciate the sharing.

Here’s the thing: this is a boat that the owner has lavished with love - but not so much with $$$$. I’m not going to blame him or condemn him or judge him. I know nothing about his personal finances, and maybe love was all that he had to give.

For obscure reasons that are probably irrational (sorry guys!), I prefer not to identify the boat now. (It’s a private sale; not on YW.) I can say, however, that it’s an unusual floor plan on a make and model that we like very much, and that we’ve chartered before. The more-or-less unique layout makes it hard to pass on this one, and move on to the next.

Still, I’m trying to keep my wits about me as we move forward with the transaction. My partner, less so. He is pretty determined to get this boat. Not necessarily hell or high water, but pretty close. His view is that we will be well informed once we get the eyeballs of the surveyors on the boat. We’re having a general survey and mechanical survey. The surveyors are well recommended, and I have confidence that they will do as good a survey in their one day as any surveyors could do.

For me, however, the apparent lack of $$$ spent on the boat simply gives me pause. Yes, I realize that batteries are a relatively small item. At bottom, it’s more the cumulative effect of ALL the things that haven’t been done. 12 year old electronics, 12 year old dinghy. Heck, for all I know the batteries are 12 years old.

On the important stuff, I do know that this boat has a Cummins QSB 5.9 that suffered from a known issue with the lift pump. (That is, it is known that the QSBs of this year had a known issue, and this particular boat has it.) The long and short of it is that when fuel is low, fuel feed gets erratic and the engine sputters. I’ve researched this issue up the wazoo, and there is a pretty well known fix. However, this owner (original owner) for some reason elected not to go with the fix (which is a spiffy after-market pump) but instead elected to install a dip tube to suck fuel from towards the bottom of the tank. His view is that this is OK because the Racors will catch any water in the fuel, and there’s probably not much water in the fuel anyway. If it had been me whose lift pump failed four times . . . .

There you have it. Maybe it’s not a boating issue at all. Maybe it’s a relationship issue. One of us feels strongly committed to this boat. The other of us loves the boat, but has some trepidation about the obvious lack of $$$ investment in upgrades (and, likely, maintenance) over the years.

The surveyors will have the third to last word on this. Thanks again to everyone.
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Old 11-10-2019, 03:52 PM   #34
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I want the fuel dip tube to go to the bottom of the tank. Any water that gets into the tank, I want removed into the filters ASAP. Much better to change a fuel filter than change a fuel tank due to water damage.
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Old 11-10-2019, 03:57 PM   #35
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I want the fuel dip tube to go to the bottom of the tank. Any water that gets into the tank, I want removed into the filters ASAP. Much better to change a fuel filter than change a fuel tank due to water damage.
When I had my boat built, I had two pickups on each tank -- one the conventional couple inches off the bottom, and the other right at the bottom. On long trips I run off the higher pickups. Around town, the bottom ones. Seems to be the best of both worlds.
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Old 11-10-2019, 04:10 PM   #36
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If you draw fuel off the bottom there will never be any significant amount of water there so the need for a higher pickup is just unnecessary complexity. And more points of failure and possible leakage.
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Old 11-10-2019, 04:47 PM   #37
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I would have looked at the batteries before the initial offer. If they were new great. Otherwise they can go at anytime and consider them suspect. The surveyor is not going to waste any time on them unless they fail during the actual survey. Normal wear items. This is like turning down your dream Ferrari because the tires are worn.
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Old 11-11-2019, 05:58 AM   #38
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"so the need for a higher pickup is just unnecessary complexity."

Some boats use a higher pickup for the noisemaker , so it does not leave the boat stranded.
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Old 11-11-2019, 08:34 AM   #39
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The original poster made an interesting comment. "The owner lavished love but not much $$ on the boat" . I once tried to buy a boat that the owners lavished love but little else. This was 50 years ago so remember boats on the market were much different then.

It was an old (even then) Richardson, maybe a Chris. Single engine, sedan. It had been well kept up, it was probably 30 years old at the time. Very dark original interior, in fact everything was original. It had NOTHING added to it. No radio, no depth sounder, GPS had not been invented but Loran was around, it didn't have Loran. No genny , antique toilet had been removed and replaced with a porti potty . No fly bridge , which I really wanted.

To sum it up, it was a beautiful old boat, good condition. It was overpriced. Both the owner and his spouse often referred to the boat as "Our Beloved Boat".They wouldn't bend on the price, too much love involved!

You may be up against this same issue. They want to sell the boat for one reason or another but really hate to see it go. I think you should back off for a while, They probably sense your desire for the boat. At an asking price of a half a million, they really should come down at least $50,000. Maybe they don't want to sell it ?

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Old 11-11-2019, 08:48 AM   #40
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Kawini
If the after coolers have never been removed and properly serviced you will likely find other normal maintenance items overdue. You can easily have $5 -7K per engine in front of you.

If the vessel is a planing design and engines (under load) cannot reach full rated RPM plus 50, anticipate expensive repair issues at some point. Yada yada on things to look for under the hood.

But, if you are buying this vessel because of floor plan and choose to overlook normal marine maintenance gotchas, a dock centric vessel may be just fine. Until you eventually cruise the boat or head offshore that is.
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