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Old 08-04-2012, 03:59 PM   #41
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A submarine offers the best sun protection!
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Old 08-04-2012, 04:38 PM   #42
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You guys are slipping. Nobody mentioned sunscreen!

I think having a flybridge with a good visibility lower helm offers the best of both worlds. The FB is great in nice weather and in moderation during sunny days. The lower helm is perfect for the other times.

I'm considering a FB isenglass enclosure, but the high cost is keeping me from starting the project.
I just tossed mine...it needed work and I hate canvas...way too expensive for what it does if you have a decent lower station.

Plus you have to TAKE CARE OF IT...not my style...I'd rather be maintaining things that are necessities.

I may keep my bimini because someone suggested that it might provide shade and keep me out of the sun...cool man!!!
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Old 08-04-2012, 08:30 PM   #43
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In more than 30 years of boat ownership I have never lusted after a flying bridge. It's 91 degrees here today and I would like one now!
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Old 08-05-2012, 02:15 AM   #44
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We're in Anacortes this weekend on a club cruise. While we don't drive from the flying bridge it's been a great place to sit in the shade of the bimini and get the breeze on this unseasonably hot day. Down below the breeze tends to be blocked by the boats around us.

The flying bridge is also a great vantage point to watch the antics of the boats coming and going from the harbor.
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Old 08-05-2012, 07:25 AM   #45
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When I re-glassed the ph roof I added two Bomar hatches. It has proven that it was well worth the effort.


Open the doors, front center windscreen and the top hatches and air flow is great.

Love my little pilot house boat.
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Old 08-05-2012, 07:48 AM   #46
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When I re-glassed the ph roof I added two Bomar hatches. It has proven that it was well worth the effort.


Open the doors, front center windscreen and the top hatches and air flow is great.

Love my little pilot house boat.
Are those original pilothouse windows?
Do you know the manufacturer?
Are you happy with them?
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Old 08-05-2012, 08:47 AM   #47
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Are those original pilothouse windows?
Do you know the manufacturer?
Are you happy with them?
I replaced the original windows. Openings were all re-glassed to prevent any future water intrusion.
Windows were manufactured by WaterwaySystems in Sarasota, FL.
So far so good. Chuck was a great guy to work with.
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Old 08-05-2012, 09:13 AM   #48
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So a rough rule of thumb when figuring out a boating budget is to use the average figure of ten percent of the purchase price of the boat per year as your operating cost figure. This includes everything except finance payments. So moorage, insurance, repairs, service, upgrades, etc. Some years will be less, some more, but overall the ownership costs of a used boat tend to average out at ten percent of the purchase price per year.

Marin, does your rule of thumb apply to single engine trawlers or twin? Thx, Mike
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Old 08-05-2012, 09:24 AM   #49
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FWIW, I'm in the middle of re-doing my saloon windows on both sides. All of my windows are Diamond SeaGlaze from the late 70s. DSG still sells all of the parts, and all of the gaskets, weatherseals, tracks, t-bars, and new handles for the 4 fixed and 2 sliding windows came to $300 delivered from Canada. I have a great supplier for my tinted, laminated safety glass - $430 for the six windows. Plus a couple rolls of butyl tape and two tubes of Sonolastic 150, and I'm set for another 30+ years.
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Old 08-05-2012, 09:44 AM   #50
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FWIW, I'm in the middle of re-doing my saloon windows on both sides. All of my windows are Diamond SeaGlaze from the late 70s. DSG still sells all of the parts, and all of the gaskets, weatherseals, tracks, t-bars, and new handles for the 4 fixed and 2 sliding windows came to $300 delivered from Canada. I have a great supplier for my tinted, laminated safety glass - $430 for the six windows. Plus a couple rolls of butyl tape and two tubes of Sonolastic 150, and I'm set for another 30+ years.
I understanding you are rebuilding...not relacing...correct?
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Old 08-05-2012, 10:16 AM   #51
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You guys are slipping. Nobody mentioned sunscreen! .
Not true, it was mentioned. That's why I didn't mention it again.
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Old 08-05-2012, 10:43 AM   #52
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One of the great things about boating is that there are literally hundreds of different styles of boats we can chose from to suit out individual needs and wants. Nobody is forced into a particular style.

When my Camano was in production, it was offered as a "Troll" (with a flybridge) and a "Gnome" (without a flybridge). From what I have read, of the 265 or so Camanos produced, only ten or so were the Gnome model, the rest were "Trolls" (with a flybridge).

Of course, this tidbit of information can be spun in several different ways, but to me, it means that the demographic that this boat was marketed to was willing to pay a premium for the flybridge.

You pay your money and you take your choice.
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Old 08-05-2012, 11:03 AM   #53
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Marin, does your rule of thumb apply to single engine trawlers or twin? Thx, Mike
it's a VERY rough average of ownership costs for any boat except new or very new ones. The number of engines is not a consideration. In the overall ownership cost we've found the cost difference between one and two engines to be negligable. Six gallons of oil instead of three, two oil and fuel filters instead of one, and a little more time required for servicing. That's not enough to even consider in the overall cost of o owning the boat.
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Old 08-05-2012, 11:57 AM   #54
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I understanding you are rebuilding...not relacing...correct?
Right - but the only thing left is the aluminum frame (and aluminum interior trim). The anodized exterior of the frame is clearly not factory fresh - it got a variety of abrasive cleansings over the years - and I'm thinking of painting it white. The window channels all cleaned up nicely, and the interior finish is essentially original. I thought about replacing the entire window but DSG no longer has the patterns for my windows (every window has a serial number) so getting an exact fitment might have been difficult. And there's wood trim around the exterior (which I long ago painted over) which would likely need to be removed to get at the outer flange.

I asked last year about a complete new window and a very rough estimate came back at $400 each. And the shipping (plus some import duties) were substantial though I could drive 3 hours to Vancouver to pick them up.

I would have liked to rebed the exterior frame, but it would have required substantial labor to remove each one and I could have easily deformed the window frame in the process.
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Old 08-05-2012, 12:22 PM   #55
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Six gallons of oil instead of three, two oil and fuel filters instead of one, and a little more time required for servicing. That's not enough to even consider in the overall cost of o owning the boat.
But then you're leaving out the deferred (doubled with twins) cost of maintaining the oil coolers, exhaust system, fuel delivery system, shaft log, and so on. And an eventual replacement / overhaul. Even if the parts are commonly available and reasonably priced (as for your Lehmans compared to my Volvo), I think it's prudent to reserve money for them each year.

So whatever you consider the cost of engine maintenance to be, it has to roughly double for twins. Sure there are some small economies of scale to be had (not duplicating spares, for example) but the access for maintenance on a single would offset that.

Agreeing that the 10% figure is super rough, an interesting question might be relative weights of maintenace for : exterior, interior, propulsion, electrical, mechanical, plumbing, electronics, steering, equipment, and appuertances (there are a probably few others I'm neglecting, but I liked the easy math of 10 list items). So maybe each of those - on average over 10 to 20 years - is 1% per year. But one year you drop a "boat unit" into a new anchor setup. And the next year you rebuild your plumbing. And then two years later you drop a couple of boat units into a new windlass. And then 20 years later you repower.
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Old 08-05-2012, 12:24 PM   #56
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So whatever you consider the cost of engine maintenance to be, it has to roughly double for twins.
Absolutely.
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Old 08-06-2012, 05:42 AM   #57
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A major part of boat costs is for future expenses.

Cleaning the hull, instead of slapping on another coat of antifouling .

ALL mechanical items will need overhaul at the end of their service life.

Water pumps , refrigerators air cond and noisemakers frequently come to mind.

The engine ,transmission, shaft strut bearings and rudder bearings , along with stuff on the engine, alternator , water pump , heat exchanger all are in the R&R list.

Even the shift and controls need PM and R&R , as will the engine instruments after time.

2 engines double the propulsion cost over the life of the boat ,

tho the daily out of pocket $$$ may only reflect the extra fuel,oil,filters and PM.

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Old 08-06-2012, 02:23 PM   #58
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The OP talked about getting a low buck trawler. I don't know what the situation is in his area but in the PNW the cheapest useable trawlers are converted fish boats. But the OP has lots of ideas about the features he wants and if he's looking for a GOOD economical boat a flybridge should not even be part of the picture unless a great boat is found and it just happens to have the FB.
Marin I think those Sea Dories ect your friends saw probably were local boats. Sea Dories a re pop in SE and most all the charter boats that aren't aluminum are of the Sea Sport type.
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Old 08-06-2012, 06:45 PM   #59
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Marin I think those Sea Dories ect your friends saw probably were local boats. Sea Dories a re pop in SE and most all the charter boats that aren't aluminum are of the Sea Sport type.
That's what I would have thought but they said, no, these were "distance" cruisers. They talked to all the ones they came across during their five month cruise to SE and back and they were all making trips like Port Hardy-Prince Rupert, Prince Rupert-Skagway, Puget Sound to the Broughtons and back, and at least one (don't know which kind of boat) had come all the way from Seattle and was heading for Juneau.
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Old 08-06-2012, 08:28 PM   #60
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In the interests of fuel economy, do twin engines use twice the fuel use of an identical single engine, to produce the same boat speed in the same boat?
Some fuel is used turning engine, gearbox,alternator etc before turning the prop. That aside, twins could theoretically operate at half the output of a single to produce an equal total output. But then a single might have to run uneconomically hard to produce sufficient output.
This is best tested by converting a single engine boat to twins and recording results, but discussion may be easier. Thoughts?
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