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Old 08-03-2012, 04:25 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by twiisted71 View Post
By all means tell us some of the features/size you want
This is a real good question. We are sold on getting a used boat. It really is the only way for us to go. In a used boat, Here are some things I think would be needed for comfort, safety, and usability in our live-aboard:

Electrical Systems:
1. Single Motor if it also has a "Get home". Otherwise 2 engines. Only considering diesel at this point.
Q: Can u run just one engine to save fuel?
2. 5-6kw Generator
3. If the boat we get is over 38', I would like bow or stern thrusters but could navigate without them in a pinch
4. Air-conditioning shore-side is a must or the wife will NOT be living on it!
5. radar and GPS
6. Good fuel consumption - say less than 3 gal per hour a cruising speed (5-8 knots)

Misc.
1. We could care less about a fly bridge as long as we had room near the transom for chairs and sitting and that there is extra seating in the pilothouse.
2. I would like the galley to be on the same level as the salon so the wife does not feel isolated or left out of the fun when preparing meals. Oh, who am I kidding. I will probably be making the meals and I don't want to be left out!
3. Dinghy with tender
4. A good seaworthy blue water boat that could sail coastal, to Bahamas, or all the way down to Guatemala - say Rio Dulce
5. Hanging storage for clothes
6. Washer and drier or hookups for them

For us, those are our immediate criteria as we search for a used trawler. As I said in my earlier post, the vessel will have to be 38' up to - BUT NOT BIGGER THAN 50' and able to be handled by just the two of us.

I am really interested from those of you with experience what you have found to be "Necessary Features" after having lived aboard that perhaps I have not even thought about.

Again, thanks so much for the kindness and feedback. What a great forum!
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Old 08-03-2012, 06:02 PM   #22
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I've seen this figure put out there many times, but I don't think it's anywhere close to reality.

The slip or mooring cost is the same for a brand new $300K boat as it is for a thirty year old $30K boat. You can expect the repair cost of a brand new boat to be zero (because it's under warrantee), but at thirty years, you could be looking at an expensive rebuild or repower. So, maintenance costs can be expected to increase with the age of the boat.

Some boat owners are able to do some, most, or all the maintenance themselves, while others have to hire sombody to change a lightbulb.

My costs have never been 10% of the purchase price of my boat (yet).
I disagree with a lot of what Marin says, but on this one I think it's a reasonable rule of thumb. Think of the guy (or gal!) asking this - they have no basis so they're looking for guidance, and this isn't really that bad.

Sure you can get by with a lower percentage - if you defer maintenance, do stuff yourself, or I guess if you overpaid for your boat! <grin>

And you can get killed if you buy an old trawler and end up replacing the fuel tanks, stringers, encased plywood superstructure, cored decks, and so on. Or you can saturate with CPES and hope for the best.

So, how do you plan for the unplanned? You budget for it, so that when it does happen you at least have the choice of fixing it or dumping it and moving on. If it comes in under 10%, well then you got lucky.

BTW, I wouldn't put much value in a (boat) manufacturer's warranty - they are going through bankruptcies and reorganizations so fast it's impossible to keep up. Equipment manufacturers, sure - they do a better job.

I have a small spreadsheet I have enhanced over the years to let me figure the net - net monthly cost of owning a house, boat, or car. My boat variables are: price, length (moorage), investment rate (forgone earnings of money tied up in the asset), loan parameters (going to have to finance that Fleming!), personal tax rate (possible deduction as 2nd home), maintenance rate, and depreciation rate. From those I calculate payment/equity/interest, tax savings, deprecation, lost interest, insurance (based on value), moorage (length), license (value), maintenance, and cash out (and net if financed or with tax savings).

I do not include enhancements - the sky's the limt on those. Just the dollars necessary to keep it in the same condition (improving some things, and probably letting other things accumulate).

It's true that my maintenance costs have tracked closer to 5% of the value, but I haven't done a good job of separating true maintenace from improvements (e.g. when I had the head plumbing reworked I added a holding tank). But I do a fair amount of work myself, and I happen to have an exceptionally valuable skilled assistant who works at a very reasonable rate - if I had to pay yard wages my costs could easily double.

I am also fresh-water moored under cover - I generally get by with a couple of coats of varnish on my rails with very little prep. And I can easily go 3 years between haulouts.

All up, I think that 10% figure is a reasonable approximation.
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Old 08-03-2012, 06:34 PM   #23
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[QUOTE=frgeorgeh;97149]
Misc.
1. We could care less about a fly bridge as long as we had room near the transom for chairs and sitting and that there is extra seating in the pilothouse.
2. I would like the galley to be on the same level as the salon so the wife does not feel isolated or left out of the fun when preparing meals. Oh, who am I kidding. I will probably be making the meals and I don't want to be left out!
/QUOTE]

Since you are looking at cruising southern waters you may feel differently about the flybridge if you experience the difference of the view it affords compared to an indoor helm! You can see a lot more sea-life and judge bottom contours easier. We have yet to pilot our boat from the lower helm for more than just a few minutes at a time! I even prefer docking from above.

As far as the galley my wife felt the same as your sentiment. We bought a galley down with the option of me installing the kitchen fixtures in the salon if she wanted. It has been a non issue and she much prefers the larger salon since there is a porthole in the galley and our galley is actually completely open to the salon albeit a few steps lower. There are lots of different options to consider so don't rule out a particular boat on one criteria (remember just about anything can be changed on a boat!)

If you want to stay under 3 GPH in the size boat you are looking at a single is almost mandatory IMHO.

In your situation you might want to consider chartering a few trawlers of varying styles (makes for a great vacation) and you can look at it as research on a major life purchase!
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Old 08-03-2012, 06:56 PM   #24
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you might want to consider chartering a few trawlers of varying styles (makes for a great vacation) and you can look at it as research on a major life purchase!

That turned out to be the best advice I received on this forum many months ago.
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Old 08-03-2012, 09:06 PM   #25
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Might be just me...but on boats more than 36 feet...and one I want to live on...having the galley up just don't cut it. 3 liveaboards and enough
REAL cruisin friends....

Having dishes, pot/pans and clutter in my living room don't cut it and women who say differently haven't been there too or are just too different for me.

On a 36 or so...not many choices,

I bought a 39/40 Albin specifically due to galley down...no galley in the living room for me.

Anyway after enough wives and girlfriends..I wind up doing most of the cooking onboard so I don't give a damn what they "think" about galley up/down...when they spend most of the tme there (and I have seen it change plenty when full time cruising is started) then they can call the shots where the galley is.

Even if you take all of the "discussion" out of it...many couples spend so little time in the galley anyway thjat while it should be functional...on a boat over 36 feet putting it in the living room is a disgrace to modern thinking.
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Old 08-03-2012, 09:15 PM   #26
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Since you are looking at cruising southern waters you may feel differently about the flybridge if you experience the difference of the view it affords compared to an indoor helm! You can see a lot more sea-life and judge bottom contours easier. We have yet to pilot our boat from the lower helm for more than just a few minutes at a time! I even prefer docking from above.
I agree and we do the same, operate from the flybridge whenever possible.
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Old 08-03-2012, 09:23 PM   #27
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And a little skin cancer will send you right back into that interior helm station as often as appropriate.

I feel that a decent cruising boat should have both...comfort and reasonable boat handling from both upper and lower stations...some flybridges and lower stations don't have great visibility aft..not a huge deal....

But to say one is "more" this or that than the other is purely a PERSONAL choice and based on a lot of criteria....
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Old 08-03-2012, 10:58 PM   #28
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There are many CBrats who haul their CD22s alll over the
I wasn't talking about trailering, I meant actually cruising long distances in them. Friends who took their 30' Newport sloop to Alaska for five months a few years ago told us that the most numerous type of boat they encountered along the Inside Passage were small -- C-Dories, Sea Sports, and the like. These were people who were cruising parts or the entire length of the Passage in them. You have to pick your waters of course and be mindful of the weather, but people go surprisingly long distances in surprisingly small boats.
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Old 08-04-2012, 09:16 AM   #29
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I wasn't talking about trailering, I meant actually cruising long distances in them.
Right, but many people trailer to the cruising grounds. Some C-Dorys going to Alaska put in at Anacortes / Bellingham, but many of them put in at Prince Rupert (some also drive up Vancouver Island and launch at the north end).

One C-Brat (Richard Cook) wrote "Cruising in a Big Way" about the process, though he eventually upgraded to a Bounty 257 with a diesel.

Bill and El on Halcyon have been all over the country in their CD22: Halcyon Days: Locations

And, of course, there's always William Least Heat-Moon's "River Horse: The Logbook of a Boat Across America" (River Horse was a CD22).
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Old 08-04-2012, 10:10 AM   #30
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Might be just me...but on boats more than 36 feet...and one I want to live on...having the galley up just don't cut it. 3 liveaboards and enough
REAL cruisin friends....

Having dishes, pot/pans and clutter in my living room don't cut it and women who say differently haven't been there too or are just too different for me.

On a 36 or so...not many choices,

I bought a 39/40 Albin specifically due to galley down...no galley in the living room for me..
I think I've heard something similar before. After owning several boats, we were looking for another. My late wife gave me these instructions.

Get the driving out of the kitchen
Get the engine hatches out of the living room
Have as few steps as possible
No ladders
Full walk around, safe, and secure side decks

My dermatologist appreciates the enclosed bridge deck.

Don't get me wrong. I love running from a fly bridge. I miss it most in the Bahamas when moving among the reefs and shallows. Overall I love the hardtop with the raised helm deck.
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Old 08-04-2012, 11:04 AM   #31
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After owning several boats, we were looking for another. My late wife gave me these instructions.

Get the driving out of the kitchen
Get the engine hatches out of the living room
Have as few steps as possible
No ladders
Full walk around, safe, and secure side decks
That's an experienced veteran boater who new exactly what she wanted in a boat.
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Old 08-04-2012, 11:21 AM   #32
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re: skin cancer, dermatologist, etc., can you say "bimini top"?



Put it up, put it down, as needed.
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Old 08-04-2012, 12:35 PM   #33
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re: skin cancer, dermatologist, etc., can you say "bimini top"?


Put it up, put it down, as needed.
Yes. Got one. No, actually 2.

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Old 08-04-2012, 12:46 PM   #34
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re: skin cancer, dermatologist, etc., can you say "bimini top"?



Put it up, put it down, as needed.
Gee would have never thought of that....

Can YOU say reflected sun off the water?
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Old 08-04-2012, 01:57 PM   #35
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Moonstruck, what's next, a radar arch?

psneeld, long sleeve shirts, pants, hats and sun screen.
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Old 08-04-2012, 02:07 PM   #36
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A certain amount of sunlight is necessary for good health (for humans). We have many ways of controlling how much.
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Old 08-04-2012, 02:19 PM   #37
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Moonstruck, what's next, a radar arch?

psneeld, long sleeve shirts, pants, hats and sun screen.
I've already gone to long sleeved Ts.

Yeah. radar arch with outriggers mounted on it.

Here is a short sleeved version of the T.

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Old 08-04-2012, 02:31 PM   #38
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I'm a proponent of the 10% rule. There's nothing better to plan by.

The requirement to go offshore increases your financial exposure monumentally. For 'Looping' or near shore coastal cruising, a houseboat can be just the ticket. My houseboat was 15% the cost of my trawler, simpler to maintain and a heck of a lot less responsibility with no sacrifice in comfort, not to mention that it's trailerable and unsinkable (and all one level below).




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Old 08-04-2012, 03:11 PM   #39
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Moonstruck, what's next, a radar arch?

psneeld, long sleeve shirts, pants, hats and sun screen.
Really....thanks...never thought of clothes....just like a bimini...boy this site is great...

OR A Flippin' PILOTHOUSE.... after a lifetime at sea and in the weather.....geeez...if I never pilot a boat again with wind in my face I wouldn't care....
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Old 08-04-2012, 03:47 PM   #40
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Really....thanks...never thought of clothes....just like a bimini...boy this site is great...

OR A Flippin' PILOTHOUSE.... after a lifetime at sea and in the weather.....geeez...if I never pilot a boat again with wind in my face I wouldn't care....

You guys are slipping. Nobody mentioned sunscreen!

I think having a flybridge with a good visibility lower helm offers the best of both worlds. The FB is great in nice weather and in moderation during sunny days. The lower helm is perfect for the other times.

I'm considering a FB isenglass enclosure, but the high cost is keeping me from starting the project.
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