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12-25-2019, 06:14 PM
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#21
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Guru
City: Aventura FL
Vessel Name: Kinja
Vessel Model: American Tug 34 #116 2008
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 10,595
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I cant say I was 'in love' with my surveyor. He had the necessary credentials but, I never questioned his experience. He was trained at Chapman's. I can think of one thing he missed. I pointed it out and it was quickly corrected. I did not have an engine survey because there was only about 100 hours on the engine and even less on the generator.
What the surveyor did determine was the hull was sound. The sea trial was uneventful.... but, did not compare to the sea trial a potential buyer of my N46.
The buyer changed his mind but, I did get a free bottom pressure wash.
One recommendation is; follow the surveyor around and ask LOTS of questions, Study the written results, ask more questions if you wish.
__________________
Two days out the hospital after a week in the hospital because of a significant heart attack.
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12-25-2019, 06:55 PM
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#22
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Guru
City: Sydney
Vessel Name: Sojourn
Vessel Model: Integrity 386
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 13,333
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Yes,we seem to have lost the OP. Too bad, he has an interesting profile, including a liking for projects.
Why not post the survey, including contractual exclusions, plus subsequent investigations and/or repairs of the areas of concern. People can form their own opinions and the OP will have discharged the expectation TF members will share knowledge. Assuming TF allows it, considering its own position.
__________________
BruceK
2005 Integrity 386 "Sojourn"
Sydney Australia
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12-25-2019, 07:01 PM
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#23
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Guru
City: SF Bay Area
Vessel Model: Tollycraft 34' Tri Cabin
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 12,569
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Unfortunately, in regard to the posts I read, [believe I read em all] not one mention I noticed of what the surveyor missed or did??!!
Irrespective of "who" the surveyor actually was/is [cause I could care less - seeing as I always cover my own ass anyway]; what I'd like to learn is what was/were the incorrect survey actions/results.
Reason I'd like to learn those increments about a boat survey is simply that [while I continue to cover my own ass] I will have those items in my memory bank... so I can best gain success in "covering my own ass"!!
Happy Boat-Survey Daze! - Art
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12-25-2019, 09:03 PM
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#24
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Guru
City: Fort Lauderdale. Florida, USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 21,449
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I will say as to comments about surveyors in general, I know excellent surveyors in Florida and in the PNW. I also know of some I would not use.
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12-25-2019, 09:34 PM
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#25
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Senior Member
City: Anacortes
Vessel Name: Salish Nomad
Vessel Model: American Tug 34
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 317
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We have used the services of three surveyors in our area, Anacortes WA, and were happy with all. We would, and likely will use them again.
__________________
Dave Thompson
American Tug 34-109
Home Port Anacortes Skyline & Sitka AK
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12-25-2019, 09:56 PM
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#26
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Guru
City: SF Bay Area
Vessel Model: Tollycraft 34' Tri Cabin
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 12,569
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I'm a lucky fellow regarding surveys/surveyors on boats, road vehicles and buildings. In that - My inventive mind is extremely mechanically inclined as well as having good capability to suss out circumstances of nearly any deal in which I'm entailed. Bassically, I was born with an engineer's brain complemented by a lawyer's intellect.
That said: I don't rely on any surveyor of any type to solve the requirements a survey consists of. I do however listen closely to their input. If a surveyor does not please me before survey begins or while survey is proceeding - I remove them!
Another feature I learned in life was to be able to walk away when it is proper to do, needed to do.
For my knowledge, I would like to learn not the name of the surveyor but rather the lackluster actions/results of the survey.
I feel those [with the perpetrator left nameless] items would be good for all boat owners to know about.
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12-26-2019, 09:51 AM
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#27
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TF Site Team
City: Westerly, RI
Vessel Name: N/A
Vessel Model: 1999 Mainship 350 Trawler
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,162
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Just and FYI...
Libel: Written
Slander: Spoken
There is a difference. This medium (Forums) seems like a confusing grey area, however, I would consider this written, not spoken.
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12-26-2019, 10:22 AM
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#28
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Guru
City: North Carolina for now
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,348
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I make a habit of vetting surveyors extensively, including talking directly with people who have used or have first hand experience with them. This takes some work. Whenever I see some of the negative comments about surveyors, I see people who have failed to do their due diligence.
__________________
George
"There's the Right Way, the Wrong Way, and what some guy says he's gotten away with"
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12-26-2019, 11:32 AM
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#29
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Guru
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 28,151
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Or an unrealistic idea of what they really are capable of doing in a nondestructive survey.....sometimes.
They are like having to go to a GP for a referral to a specialist....when you know what's wrong but still need to follow insurance guidelines.
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12-26-2019, 11:41 AM
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#30
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Senior Member
City: Detroit
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 268
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Having read nearly two pages of this thread I feel as though I have learned very little about trawlers in the process.
Seems like maybe we were or I was trolled?
Unless the OP gets back involved here this is a pretty meaningless exercise. I think board members offered constructive feedback that would hopefully settle down the OP and have the OP interact in a safer and more thoughtful way, yet the OP is gone?
To the OP- Are you trying to help us, or are you trying to help yourself?
Bill
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12-26-2019, 12:13 PM
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#31
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Guru
City: Boston
Vessel Name: Adelante
Vessel Model: IG 30
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,611
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OP has probably read the responses and hopefully calmed down. Never a good idea to proceed with anything in anger.
If he posted the survey, and included evidence of survey failures, then OP would be expressing an opinion based upon known facts and would survive a defamation suit.
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12-26-2019, 04:07 PM
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#32
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Guru
City: Pender Harbour, BC
Vessel Name: Gwaii Haanas
Vessel Model: Custom Aluminum 52
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,791
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Its difficult to stay calm when you’ve been scammed somehow, anger and guilt. Indignation.
If you go to a doctor you know he has had to meet a standard and has been tested by his peers and subsequently approved. Yes there are poor doctors out there but they are soon weeded out and defrocked. The surveyor/inspector industry has no exams or standards nor peer review. Usually the best ones are passed around by word of mouth because there are competent, meticulous concerned surveyors out there. Many that really care for their clients yet all of these persons, good or bad have a huge influence on the insurance industry, a kind of back-door boating regulatory industry that preys on boaters as we’re all filthy rich because “boats.”
Mmmm turkey....
__________________
Don't believe everything that you think.
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12-26-2019, 04:25 PM
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#33
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Guru
City: Campbell River
Vessel Name: Blue Sky
Vessel Model: Nordic Tugs 42 Hull #001
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,972
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In this part of the world the surveyors are often members of SAMS, although there is no legal requirement for them to be so.
https://www.marinesurvey.org/
__________________
Conrad
Berthed in
Campbell River BC
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12-26-2019, 04:56 PM
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#34
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TF Site Team
City: MX, thru Canal to Bahamas
Vessel Name: Muirgen
Vessel Model: 50' Beebe Passagemaker
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 3,400
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Maybe the reason the OP hasn't returned is that after reading many of the replies, he realizes that he has already been judged guilty without any evidence. Does anyone actually KNOW that the surveyor was or wasn't guilty of fraud?
For heavens sake, all he asked for was recommendations of the proper venue to post about problems he experienced with a surveyor. Yes, he could have framed a little more politically correctly, but from his past history of posting, he doesn't appear to be an alarmist.
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12-26-2019, 05:08 PM
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#36
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Guru
City: Sydney
Vessel Name: Sojourn
Vessel Model: Integrity 386
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 13,333
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The OP was effectively seeking permission to post. "Where should I post it?" was a conversation starter.
The header to the post was indicative.
Using the words "crooked" and "fraudulent" was indicative.
Invited to post the survey and the evidence of dishonesty and fraud the OP did not. The result is every surveyor in Seattle could be the "culpable" one. We just don`t know, and we have no opportunity to form our own view based on unvarnished information rather than a conclusion which likely has some emotion to it.
The thread has become a pointless waste of time. For all we know the OP may have been told by TF Owners or Moderators there is no appropriate place on TF for the proposed post.
The thread would benefit from closure.
__________________
BruceK
2005 Integrity 386 "Sojourn"
Sydney Australia
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12-26-2019, 05:12 PM
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#37
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TF Site Team
City: MX, thru Canal to Bahamas
Vessel Name: Muirgen
Vessel Model: 50' Beebe Passagemaker
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 3,400
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"The result is every surveyor in Seattle could be the "culpable" one."
Not sure how surveyors in Seattle could possibly be the "culpable" one when the OP states that he is from the San Francisco area . . .
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12-26-2019, 05:23 PM
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#38
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Guru
City: Sydney
Vessel Name: Sojourn
Vessel Model: Integrity 386
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 13,333
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Good point Slowgoesit.
Now you are past that, deal with the substance of the post.
__________________
BruceK
2005 Integrity 386 "Sojourn"
Sydney Australia
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12-26-2019, 05:26 PM
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#39
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Guru
City: Jacksonville
Vessel Name: Alzero
Vessel Model: Hatteras 63' CPMY
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,548
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xsbank
Its difficult to stay calm when you’ve been scammed somehow, anger and guilt. Indignation.
If you go to a doctor you know he has had to meet a standard and has been tested by his peers and subsequently approved. Yes there are poor doctors out there but they are soon weeded out and defrocked. The surveyor/inspector industry has no exams or standards nor peer review. Usually the best ones are passed around by word of mouth because there are competent, meticulous concerned surveyors out there. Many that really care for their clients yet all of these persons, good or bad have a huge influence on the insurance industry, a kind of back-door boating regulatory industry that preys on boaters as we’re all filthy rich because “boats.”
Mmmm turkey....
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Wrong wrong wrong. Bad doctors are NOT weeded out and defrocked. The medical establishment always closes ranks and defends their peers. Read the stories of those killer doctors: they always have years and years of documented errors and abuse of patients. They are invariably given second third and fourth chances disguised are “training” or “education” allowing them to continue harming the public.
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12-26-2019, 05:30 PM
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#40
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Guru
City: Jacksonville
Vessel Name: Alzero
Vessel Model: Hatteras 63' CPMY
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,548
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowgoesit
Maybe the reason the OP hasn't returned is that after reading many of the replies, he realizes that he has already been judged guilty without any evidence. Does anyone actually KNOW that the surveyor was or wasn't guilty of fraud?
For heavens sake, all he asked for was recommendations of the proper venue to post about problems he experienced with a surveyor. Yes,
he could have framed a little more politically correctly, but from his past history of posting, he doesn't appear to be an alarmist.
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We know for a fact that there have been no charges laid, civil or criminal, and thus no trial before a judge or jury. Therefore any claim of guilt or even innocence is simply opinion.
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