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Old 02-13-2011, 10:58 PM   #1
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Carbon Monoxide

Carbon monoxide is heavier then air, isn't it?

I've been thinking of where to place carbon monoxide detectors on the*under-construction Carquinez Coot.* Its interior*has three separate parts: the forward cabin (master stateroom), pilothouse, and saloon containing galley and dinette which can convert into a berth.* The forward cabin is the lowest.* It's floor is a couple of feet below waterline.* The saloon's floor is about a foot below waterline.* The pilothouse, which is above the engineroom, has its floor about three feet above the waterline.* None of the three living spaces are separated by solid bulkheads.

I'm thinking that two CO detectors will be needed: one in the forward cabin and one in the saloon.* I'd think that the CO detectors should be below where one's head would be laying while sleeping in either location.

Feedback please.* Thanks!
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Old 02-14-2011, 04:51 AM   #2
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RE: Carbon Monoxide

Quote:
markpierce wrote:Carbon monoxide is heavier then air, isn't it?


I've been thinking of where to place carbon monoxide detectors ...
No, CO is not heavier than air.

I'm thinking you should be very afraid of asking that sort of question on this site. There are gurus here who will happily provide advice that can kill you.

Those same folks will be pissed off because I mentioned that fact.

It is obvious you are very new to powerboats and the "Coot" represents a quantum leap in your nautical adventure so take one last bit of unsolicited advice and learn to do your own research, especially when it involves safety and health issues or the maintenance of expensive equipment.

*
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Old 02-14-2011, 05:06 AM   #3
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RE: Carbon Monoxide

Ummm Rick, maybe that's a little bit too strongly worded reply to markpierce's post. You make me feel that I have wondered into 'Off the Deep End' by mistake.
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Old 02-14-2011, 05:11 AM   #4
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RE: Carbon Monoxide

That's just Rickbee. According to him, everybody on this forum is a dumbass except for him. But now to recommend people don't use the forum?
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Old 02-14-2011, 05:39 AM   #5
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RE: Carbon Monoxide

Quote:
Keith wrote:But now to recommend people don't use the forum?
"There are gurus here who will happily provide advice that can kill you."
"learn to do your own research, especially when it involves safety and health issues or the maintenance of expensive equipment."

"Those same folks will be pissed off because I mentioned that fact"


I should have added that there are many "gurus" who have reading comprehension problems as well. If anyone can find a recommendation to not use the forum I would like to see it.

It looks to me like each statement is very much to the point and very accurate, particularly the prediction ... and if you are going to claim special knowledge of what I think about everybody, that would be the real dumbass position.
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Old 02-14-2011, 08:30 AM   #6
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RE: Carbon Monoxide

Quote:
markpierce wrote:

Carbon monoxide is heavier then air, isn't it?

I've been thinking of where to place carbon monoxide detectors on the*under-construction Carquinez Coot.* Its interior*has three separate parts: the forward cabin (master stateroom), pilothouse, and saloon containing galley and dinette which can convert into a berth.* The forward cabin is the lowest.* It's floor is a couple of feet below waterline.* The saloon's floor is about a foot below waterline.* The pilothouse, which is above the engineroom, has its floor about three feet above the waterline.* None of the three living spaces are separated by solid bulkheads.

I'm thinking that two CO detectors will be needed: one in the forward cabin and one in the saloon.* I'd think that the CO detectors should be below where one's head would be laying while sleeping in either location.

Feedback please.* Thanks!
use the instructions that come with one of the "marine" CO units regarding mounting ... it has passed the scrutiny of their engineers and lawyers
HOLLYWOOD

*
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Old 02-14-2011, 09:20 AM   #7
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RE: Carbon Monoxide

Coot - have you identified the potential sources of CO on your new build? This is step one (there are more).

Because CO monitors are so cheap and your vessel small, get an extra or two in addition to those that you strategically place. For two (there are more) of your reference points check AYBC and*go to a boat show and see what Selene, NT, AT and Nordhavn have done on their pilot house vessels.

In support of RickB, take all this advice you have received on the Coot for what you paid the Forum advisers.
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Old 02-14-2011, 10:12 AM   #8
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RE: Carbon Monoxide

I see this forum as a place to come and have a discussion among a group of folks with similar interests.* I would not take what I read here as the final truth, any more than I would having the same discussion at the yacht club bar. Anywhere you go and discuss some aspect of boating, you'll get lots of free advice, some good, some not so good.* Everyone has an opinion, some just have a higher opinion of themselves, and need to stroke their ego in public.* It's a shame we can't all converse in a civil mannor and get our point across without finger pointing, or name calling.* One of the things I like about T/F is the lack of personal attacks (for the most part).* It's one reason I never I never go to OTDE.
We can all improve our communication skills in one form or another.* One way is to read whay you have written, and ask, if someone said that about me, would I be offended? If the answere is a possible yes, re-writing to remove personal aspects will go a long ways to removing the ego from a post, unless your point IS to offend, then OTDE might be a better place to go....................Arctic Traveller
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Old 02-14-2011, 10:38 AM   #9
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RE: Carbon Monoxide

I have a friend who nearly died due to the exhaust on her generator creeping in the bedroom window from outside her home. It just occurred to me that a neighbor boat with a generator running could do the same. I think I'll get my detector mounted.
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Old 02-14-2011, 10:52 AM   #10
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RE: Carbon Monoxide

Quote:
Arctic Traveller wrote:I would not take what I read here as the final truth, any more than I would having the same discussion at the yacht club bar...... some just have a higher opinion of themselves, and need to stroke their ego in public.* It's a shame we can't all converse in a civil mannor and get our point across without finger pointing, or name calling.
Well said.

*
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Old 02-14-2011, 11:36 AM   #11
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RE: Carbon Monoxide

Quote:
Arctic Traveller wrote:It's a shame we can't all converse in a civil mannor and get our point across without finger pointing, or name calling.*
Yes, you are right. It's a shame that*someone had to come back with finger pointing and name calling rather than useful advice.

*
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Old 02-14-2011, 12:07 PM   #12
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Carbon Monoxide

A forum like this is a great place to share experiences, some of which may impart some knowledge, and it's a great place to get opinions that may help you narrow a search. For example, what kind of low-horsepower outboard is a good choice for a dinghy, what sort of anchor is most effective in weedy bottoms, what kind of refrigerators are the most reliable, and so on.

But when it comes to things that will either cost you money (and what doesn't) or, even more important, affect your health, my feeling is that, regardless of what sort of advice and commentary one gets on a forum, go to the professionals. Want to know if Awlgrip should be waxed or not? Call Awlgrip. Want to know if equalizing is the best thing to do for your particular battery and electrical setup? Talk to your local marine electrician or shop or call the battery manufacturer if you can find out who it is.* Want to know if you can use synthetic oil in your almost-40-year-old-diesel? Talk to your local diesel shop or someone in the marine engine manufacturing industry. Want to know what the best prop diameter and pitch is for your boat? Talk to a prop shop.

There is more effort in doing this than in simply reading and following free advice on a forum. You have to make the effort to determine that the professional you are consulting is reputable, has real experience, can be trusted, and has a track record of being right.

This is not to say that the advice someone gives on a forum isn't correct, or is always wrong. There are some very knowledgeable people on most boating forums. But I don't know them personally, I've never had them to work on my boat, and nothing anyone on these forums say is backed up by any sort of warranty. If you act on their advice and whatever it is that you do or buy turns out not work as advertised, or worse, damages your boat or your health, you have no recourse whatsoever. You're solely responsible for fixing whatever problem occurred.

In the case of questions about CO, on-board propane systems, and anything else that can have a direct effect on one's health, I would NEVER act on the advice given by anyone on an internet forum. The advice or opinion may give me reason to seek out more information, and it may prompt me to contact a health professional or a marine systems professional to determine if we, indeed, had a potential problem. And if we did, what they recommended as best way to alleviate the problem. But the nature of the problem and the best solution(s) should come from someone who is professionally experienced in the field, and whose advice, recommendation, and work is backed by some sort of warranty, implied or written.

To the response I have heard from some people--- that boating is so expensive any free advice about things I can do myself will save me money--- I say that if boating is so expensive one cannot afford to maintain a boat--- and ensure their health--- by using professional services when the consequences of NOT using professional services are potentially dangerous or economically ruinous, I say that person perhaps shouldn't be boating. Or should be boating in a more affordable manner.

I've been accused of quoting or paraphrasing in my posts what I hear from other people .* The accusers have implied or said that this is meaningless information since it didn't come directly from my own boating experience.* Leaving aside the fact this attitude pretty much negates the value of school, I do this because when it comes to anything important about our boat or our boating--- and pretty much everything we do to or with the boat is important--- I try to find out as much about it as I can directly from professionals if it has to do with our boat's systems, maintenance, or repair, or directly from very experienced cruisers we know (like Carey) when it comes to things like running and maneuvering a boat.*

This information always proves to be very valuable, so I pass it on where I think it's approrpriate.* BUT..... I certainly don't expect anyone to follow my advice, even if that advice is a direct quote from a mechanic or marine electrician I know.* I expect people on a forum to read my advice (if it even interests them) and then follow through with confirming or disproving it with professionals be it Bob Smith at American Diesel, customer service specialist at Force 10, Peter Smith at Rocna, the owner of your local marine electric shop, etc.




-- Edited by Marin on Monday 14th of February 2011 01:25:27 PM
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Old 02-14-2011, 12:54 PM   #13
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RE: Carbon Monoxide

CO poisonings from engines are almost always gas and not diesel related. In the many underground mines I have worked, diesel engines are common for many reasons, one of which is they are less lethal*due to their burn cycle, off gas and different fuel than a gas engine.

This does not mean that CO detectors are not needed on diesel boats. My concern is as much for my diesel heater*as my 3 engines,
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Old 02-14-2011, 01:18 PM   #14
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RE: Carbon Monoxide

FWIW, my combo smoke/Co detectors are located on the Saloon ceiling and below on the ceiling in the hall centered between the staterooms, heads and engine room hatch. I can't recall if there is one on the PH ceiling - I seem to recall there is. When I had my RV the only time mine ever went off was from a neighbor's genset.

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Old 02-14-2011, 01:55 PM   #15
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Carbon Monoxide

Quote:
Old Stone wrote:


**The views expressed above are not intended as advice, gospel, must be followed, etc.** Are we going to have to say that to every comment we make????
CarlFollowing your lead, I have changed my signature. Let me know if you think this will pass legal muster.*



The views, opinions, impressions, understanding above are simply that, and should not be considered to be correct, politically correct, remotely correct, or in any sense possible, practical, feasible, etc.. All of my writings should be considered only for their entertainment value, and will likely be found by most to lack in that area as well.



-- Edited by Carey on Monday 14th of February 2011 02:56:35 PM
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Old 02-14-2011, 02:06 PM   #16
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RE: Carbon Monoxide

Seems that most people responding don't know where to install a CO detector.

Carbon monoxide fills up a room from the top down, so closer to the ceiling may be a better location.

Where have you installed yours?
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Old 02-14-2011, 02:12 PM   #17
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RE: Carbon Monoxide

I installed mine about 1' from the headliner in the forward cabin.*

I bought a marine one (don't no why but it was pretty pricey) the instructions suggested near the overhead in cabins where you sleep.

It is not real loud (during testing) so I am glad it is close to the berths.

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Old 02-14-2011, 02:14 PM   #18
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RE: Carbon Monoxide

Quote:
markpierce wrote:

Seems that most people responding don't know where to install a CO detector.
This is a radical concept, I realize, but you could ask the manufacturer of a CO detector where it should be located.* I bet some of them even have their installation instructions on their websites.* Since they designed it my guess is that they have a pretty good idea how it works, which by inference may mean that they know where it should be placed.* This is all just speculation, I realize, but the odds are certainly there in favor of the manufacturer knowing where it should go.* Worth a try, maybe.....




*
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Old 02-14-2011, 02:22 PM   #19
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RE: Carbon Monoxide

Yesterday a U.S. Power Squadron instructor told me that CO was lighter than air.* That's why I brought up the question.* I'm now thinking of getting three detectors: one for each interior part of the boat.* I'll read the instructions when I get the units.
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Old 02-14-2011, 02:28 PM   #20
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RE: Carbon Monoxide

Quote:
sunchaser wrote:

CO poisonings from engines are almost always gas and not diesel related. In the many underground mines I have worked, diesel engines are common for many reasons, one of which is they are less lethal*due to their burn cycle, off gas and different fuel than a gas engine.

This does not mean that CO detectors are not needed on diesel boats. My concern is as much for my diesel heater*as my 3 engines,
This ignoramous (me) would think any open flame is a source.* A propane stove should be a plentiful source of CO.* So would exhaust from an IC engine: diesel, gasoline, or whatever.

*
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