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Old 01-12-2017, 12:38 PM   #1
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CA Supreme Court and Coastal Development

Some of you in California may be following this. Interesting read. According to the article the decision from the California Supreme Court could affect the entire California Coast for development such as marinas.

Legal battle in Newport Beach could determine future of coastal development statewide – The Log
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Old 01-12-2017, 02:13 PM   #2
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This notwithstanding I find it highly doubtful a new marina will be constructed anywhere on the west coast of the United States.
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Old 01-12-2017, 02:14 PM   #3
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Interesting but will only answer part of the questions from what little I know about it as the actual case if filed objecting to the city making a ruling that violates the city's zoning laws. The Coastal Act comes into play because it says zoning laws (and other) must be defended. Even there it's not clear though as defended generally means against others. A city writes zoning laws so traditionally they've been able to make zoning exceptions. They do it all the time. The ease or difficulty in doing so though varies widely city to city. For instance, some cities have the power to make an exception or rezone a property regardless of how the neighbors feel while others require agreement on the part of neighbors.

In the broader scope, it's just one more battle over the use of land. Typical battle of development vs. leaving as is, change vs. no-change.
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Old 01-12-2017, 03:11 PM   #4
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Typically, money wins these battles. If someone has enough money, they get what they want one way or another.
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Old 01-12-2017, 04:59 PM   #5
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This notwithstanding I find it highly doubtful a new marina will be constructed anywhere on the west coast of the United States.
True this.

In So-Cal some small scale construction will probably take place to replace existing facilities, but the era of the large projects ended in the 70's.
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Old 01-12-2017, 05:53 PM   #6
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True this.

In So-Cal some small scale construction will probably take place to replace existing facilities, but the era of the large projects ended in the 70's.
So no chance of another Marina Del Rey then? That place is pretty impressive for several reasons.
1) Pure size. That place is huge!
2) Services. Lots of places to get supplies and marine services there.
3) Stench. That breakwater smells to high heaven.
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Old 01-12-2017, 06:02 PM   #7
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I should never say never...

How about a snowballs chance in San Diego?
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Old 01-12-2017, 06:17 PM   #8
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So no chance of another Marina Del Rey then? That place is pretty impressive for several reasons.
1) Pure size. That place is huge!
2) Services. Lots of places to get supplies and marine services there.
3) Stench. That breakwater smells to high heaven.
Effluent stench?? If so - from boats, land based treatment plants... or...
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Old 01-12-2017, 06:33 PM   #9
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There are actually one proyected at the estuary in Oakland city with 800 slips. parts of a condo development. Almar is gonna be the company in control
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Old 01-12-2017, 06:53 PM   #10
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There are actually one proyected at the estuary in Oakland city with 800 slips. parts of a condo development. Almar is gonna be the company in control


Pardon my ignorance as Oakland estuary was never my haunt but isn't that the same waterfront condo project that seems to get resurrected every few years? If it is it has been in the works since at least the early 1980's. If memory serves me it's actually a redevelopment and not a brand new use.

I am very open to be proven wrong though as I could be misremembering.
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Old 01-12-2017, 06:59 PM   #11
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True this.

In So-Cal some small scale construction will probably take place to replace existing facilities, but the era of the large projects ended in the 70's.
Of course that doesn't include the delta tunnels and the bullet train.
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Old 01-12-2017, 07:10 PM   #12
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This notwithstanding I find it highly doubtful a new marina will be constructed anywhere on the west coast of the United States.
I tend to agree. We were living in the Seattle area when Elliott Bay Marina finally got built. Everyone pretty much said this would be the last marina built in Puget Sound. The permitting with the various groups fighting the new construction almost killed the project. It open in 1991(?) after more than 15 years of planning/permitting/construction. In California....?
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Old 01-12-2017, 08:22 PM   #13
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Interesting but will only answer part of the questions from what little I know about it as the actual case if filed objecting to the city making a ruling that violates the city's zoning laws. The Coastal Act comes into play because it says zoning laws (and other) must be defended. Even there it's not clear though as defended generally means against others. A city writes zoning laws so traditionally they've been able to make zoning exceptions. They do it all the time. The ease or difficulty in doing so though varies widely city to city. For instance, some cities have the power to make an exception or rezone a property regardless of how the neighbors feel while others require agreement on the part of neighbors.

In the broader scope, it's just one more battle over the use of land. Typical battle of development vs. leaving as is, change vs. no-change.


Environmental impact study, traffic study, neighborhood resident's input, town/city's legal department inputs, planning department support helps followed by appeals to land court upon a zoning board rejections. Been there done that (9 years on our local zoning board) and it can be horribly expensive, frustrating and time consuming to go through the process. And yes, variances and special permits can be granted but that does not mean the applicant will be successful.
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Old 01-13-2017, 12:15 AM   #14
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Effluent stench?? If so - from boats, land based treatment plants... or...

Nope. Just all the guano coating the breakwater.
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Old 01-13-2017, 05:03 AM   #15
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Nope. Just all the guano coating the breakwater.

Flying effluent!

gua·no -ˈɡwänō/
noun - excrement of seabirds and bats, used as fertilizer.


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Old 01-13-2017, 05:09 AM   #16
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You ought ta see what they are doing regarding 100 +/- wall to wall condos at Loch Lomond Marina in San Rafael CA. Fuel dock is far left hand side.


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Old 01-13-2017, 07:47 AM   #17
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Looked at your pic Art, good lord some of those finger docks must be 1 kilometer long. I can't imagine arriving at the marina late after a grueling long drive only to be confronted with parking the car a block away and carting weeks worth of provisions down a kilometer long dock in the pouring rain or sweltering heat...... Not to mention the hassle to use the marina restrooms or to make a quick jaunt to the store. I think I'd get out of boating.
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Old 01-13-2017, 08:01 AM   #18
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Looked at your pic Art, good lord some of those finger docks must be 1 kilometer long. I can't imagine arriving at the marina late after a grueling long drive only to be confronted with parking the car a block away and carting weeks worth of provisions down a kilometer long dock in the pouring rain or sweltering heat...... Not to mention the hassle to use the marina restrooms or to make a quick jaunt to the store. I think I'd get out of boating.
Those are a few of the reasons why we never used that marina for dockage. However, was easy in/out fuel dock when we kept two boats about a mile away an much smaller, more comfortable marina.
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Old 01-13-2017, 08:47 AM   #19
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Pardon my ignorance as Oakland estuary was never my haunt but isn't that the same waterfront condo project that seems to get resurrected every few years? If it is it has been in the works since at least the early 1980's. If memory serves me it's actually a redevelopment and not a brand new use.

I am very open to be proven wrong though as I could be misremembering.
No, it's a new one.
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