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Old 08-06-2011, 04:11 AM   #21
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RE: buying a trawler

"Comparing a boat with one larger engine vs. a boat with two smaller engines, yes, the costs aren't quite doubled although I don't think things like filters, belts, impellers, etc. are going to be that much different in cost for the small engine as the larger one."

This really depends on the source if the engine.

Car , small truck or farm implement marinizations might hold 5-8 Quarts.

An industrial unit like an 8V71 will be 8 GALLONS. Should you really need t to cruise with 200- 250HP

Running the "Loop" the boasts with problems , some 3 or 4 times, seemed to be replacing props , shafts and struts that the singles were not.
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Old 08-06-2011, 07:10 AM   #22
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RE: buying a trawler

"if you haven't run aground, you haven't been around"
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Old 08-06-2011, 07:21 AM   #23
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RE: buying a trawler

Two years and we have NEVER touched bottom! (hope I didn't just jinx us)
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Old 08-06-2011, 07:57 AM   #24
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RE: buying a trawler

It's okay folks I'll* take the rap as the dumb one here because I don't know didly squat about trawlers.* Only sailboats so far.* Now here's a dumb question.* Why are they putting two motors in if one is more economical.* Is it because 2 motors are easier on each other over all or is it because if one breaks down you still have one motor.* And while under way do you usually use one motor at a time or alternate or do you always use both.* I can't wait to see the answers fly on this one he he!* Wait till you hear my next dumb* question!
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Old 08-06-2011, 08:11 AM   #25
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RE: buying a trawler

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edbulmer wrote:
It's okay folks I'll* take the rap as the dumb one here because I don't know didly squat about trawlers.* Only sailboats so far.* Now here's a dumb question.* Why are they putting two motors in if one is more economical.* Is it because 2 motors are easier on each other over all or is it because if one breaks down you still have one motor.* And while under way do you usually use one motor at a time or alternate or do you always use both.* I can't wait to see the answers fly on this one he he!* Wait till you hear my next dumb* question!
Ed, That's not a dumb question. A dumb question would be to add "galley up*vs galley down with single screw or twins".

I think you will find a lot of reasons why there are twins and single screws. As you will galley up vs galley down.

I could say "being that I am a mariner, I don't need twins". But the real reason is the room that is left in the engine room. This extra room make the maintenance issues sooooo much easier.
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Old 08-06-2011, 08:32 AM   #26
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RE: buying a trawler

Re: running a twin engine boat on a single engine

I also came from a sailboat to a trawler and had the same quesions. It was interesting the replys, asking on the West Coast of FL, many people indicated that cruisers used this tactic. Asking the same question on th East Coast and I was told by the people I asked, there is no fuel economy to be gained and it would be difficult to track and you may actually burn more fuel running single engine. I asked the same question on the Defever site and was told there is no economy by most, however one long time cruiser with a 49PH said he had been cruising single engine for 15 years and it was indead significantly more economical. I think the problem is what power setting are you running at, ie, if you a running at "hull speed", there is probably no ecoonomy, it will take X horsepower to get there, either single engine or twin engine. If you are content to cruise at a "max range" RPM and accept the slower speed, ie, sailboat speed, then it probably more economical to run single engine.
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Old 08-06-2011, 08:50 AM   #27
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RE: buying a trawler

Ed:

I think the "single engine vs. twins discussion", and the "if you haven't run aground" comment pretty much depend on where you are going to do your boating.

I am retired, I boat in the PNW, and I go out in the summer for as long as I can and as far as I safely can in the time I have.* I have traveled the entire Mainland coast of B.C., I love getting into each and every lagoon possible, and I have lost an engine as much as 95 nm from the nearest mechanic, and I've lost a bit of paint off the bottom from time to time.* I love my twins.

If you intend to spend your boating vacation time within VHF hailing distance of the nearest tow, and you're going to tie up at docks as often as you toss the hook over the bow, your concerns are going to be different than mine, and may be different than they will be when you are retired.

Where and how do you boat?* Will that change in the time you own this first power boat?* The answers may help you decide on the "single vs. twins" question.* If you get into the lagoon, and I'm already there, ... you will have to leave.

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Old 08-06-2011, 09:58 AM   #28
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RE: buying a trawler

Ed,

You start your engine w an electric motor and run your boat w an engine. Twin engines are better as most more expensive things*** ....that's why people pay more for them. As to running a twin on one we had quite* a discussion on that recently and it is considerably more fuel efficient to do so on most boats. Some do it for long distances w one prop removed. This was addressed on BoatDesign.net also.

Marin,

No point in starting up the "twins cost twice as much to maintain" either. Unless you start talking about boats w same total hp. But I agree** ...most trawlers on this site have twins and singles w the same engine. Lots of builders did the same dumb thing. But when you talk that way it is relevant because most boats in our circle have twins w the same engine as the singles but you need to qualify that in discussion. And I can see how you got there having to buy 7 gallons of oil for an oil change.
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Old 08-06-2011, 11:59 AM   #29
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RE: buying a trawler

I've run aground quite a few times, always on a sand or mud bottom, and have been able to wiggle free, so far, without help.
My Monk 36 is a single, I really wouldn't want a twin engine boat but may wish I had an extra engine if this one ever conks out in a tight spot. It is just so much easier to get to both sides of the engine in a single.
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Old 08-06-2011, 12:16 PM   #30
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RE: buying a trawler

So I'm thinking by the replies that a single is easier to work with but a double has it's advantages too. *I guess when you find the boat you want it won't matter that much whether you have a double or single engine.

Now for my next dumb question. *I plan on living on the boat or boats depending on the answers and info. I get. *Whew, here we go.

I will live 6 months in Toronto Canada and 6 months in Key West Fl. *Would it be better to have one good boat (trawler) with diesel motors and travel back and forth or would it be better (in my case) *to have two boats perhaps more inexpensive power boats with gas motors and fly back and forth?

There goes the neighbourhood he he! *Lets have it I know were going to have some fun here. *Basically what I'm saying is *I will only be doing a small amount of travelling from the dock at either location. * Perhaps in the future when I retire I will buy a boat to travel around on.*
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Old 08-06-2011, 02:42 PM   #31
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RE: buying a trawler

Quote:
edbulmer wrote:


So I'm thinking by the replies that a single is easier to work with but a double has it's advantages too. *I guess when you find the boat you want it won't matter that much whether you have a double or single engine.

Now for my next dumb question. *I plan on living on the boat or boats depending on the answers and info. I get. *Whew, here we go.

I will live 6 months in Toronto Canada and 6 months in Key West Fl. *Would it be better to have one good boat (trawler) with diesel motors and travel back and forth or would it be better (in my case) *to have two boats perhaps more inexpensive power boats with gas motors and fly back and forth?

There goes the neighbourhood he he! *Lets have it I know were going to have some fun here. *Basically what I'm saying is *I will only be doing a small amount of travelling from the dock at either location. * Perhaps in the future when I retire I will buy a boat to travel around on.*


Good God man!!! It gets really, really cold in Toronto and they measure thief snow in meters (not inches!!!). I visited my girl friend there a couple of years ago and they had a real serious winter!!

Seriously, I don't think you will find one boat that would fit both climates.
In florida they're all about air conditioning and keeping the heat out and us folks in the north are trying to keep the heat in. When we want some air conditioning we just crack a window open.:evileye:
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Old 08-06-2011, 03:06 PM   #32
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RE: buying a trawler

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*Good God man!!! It gets really, really cold in Toronto and they measure their snow in meters (not inches!!!).

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Old 08-06-2011, 03:25 PM   #33
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RE: buying a trawler

6 months Canada & 6 months Florida - travel by trawler to & fro = 6,000 miles round trip. Every year? 3 miles per gallon (at your best) @ $4 p/gal = $8,000.00 annually in fuel.

Buy a cheap boat, gas or diesel for each end. Park it!
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Old 08-06-2011, 05:58 PM   #34
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RE: buying a trawler

Bingo, we have a winner.* That's what I'll do.* Forget about the 8 grand in fuel.

I'll buy the beers.* Cheers.**

PS that was funny about the snow.* That's the reason I go south for the winter.

It's so cold here all the chickens line up at KFC just to get in the deep fryer.
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Old 08-06-2011, 10:30 PM   #35
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RE: buying a trawler

I'm surprised they don't jump off the CN tower. Speaking of extreme, that glass floor, watching kids laying on it, looking 1200 feet straight down, just about did me in.

Yeah, I agree condo overlooking Lake Ontario and a 40' boat in Key West, a raspberry margarita, and a little Jimmy Buffet on the stereo. I'm down with this!!

Larry B:biggrin:
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Old 08-07-2011, 10:22 AM   #36
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RE: buying a trawler

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Edelweiss wrote:*I agree condo overlooking Lake Ontario and a 40' boat in Key West,
******* That's the way I would go!* With a condo you get a lot of protection from the cold by virtue of being in a building with other condos. (Supervised, maintained, etc.)

As for the 40 footer in Key West? No decision here except for a hurricane plan.
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Old 08-07-2011, 06:50 PM   #37
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RE: buying a trawler

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******* That's the way I would go!* With a condo you get a lot of protection from the cold by virtue of being in a building with other condos. (Supervised, maintained, etc.)

As for the 40 footer in Key West? No decision here except for a hurricane plan.
I guess I left out the part about getting good boat insurance (That was just assumed).. . . .

That's the beauty of it though, Winter in Toronto begins after hurricane season. *So we're talking November through April-May in Florida and May-June through October in Toronto. *

Toronto has beautiful summers, It's just across the US Border from Buffalo, NY, and lots of things to do, the Great Lakes, St. Lawrence Seaway, Niagara Falls, Horseshoe falls, *Hmm. that's all water things?? *Must be a good City to live in then. *

"Soap on a Rope" . . . in Key West? *I think you need to be careful about which bars you frequent regardless of where you go. *If it's got "Blue Oyster" in it's name, you may not want to go in there. *LOL

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Old 08-08-2011, 02:23 PM   #38
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RE: buying a trawler

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nomadwilly wrote:But I agree** ...most trawlers on this site have twins and singles w the same engine. Lots of builders did the same dumb thing.
We've talked about this before but it isn't dumb if the buyers of your semi-planing boats want to semi-plane them at 14-18 knots or whatever.* And many if not most buyers of GBs in the 1990s and on up to now want to do just that.* We would, too, if we had the engines that could push our boat along that fast and the money for the fuel.** A semi-planing hull is something of a waste if you're not going to run it at semi-planing speeds.* If you're not, better off to buy a more efficient and appropriately powered displacement boat I think.
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Old 08-08-2011, 06:38 PM   #39
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RE: buying a trawler

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Marin wrote:nomadwilly wrote:But I agree** ...most trawlers on this site have twins and singles w the same engine. Lots of builders did the same dumb thing.
We've talked about this before but it isn't dumb if the buyers of your semi-planing boats want to semi-plane them at 14-18 knots or whatever.* And many if not most buyers of GBs in the 1990s and on up to now want to do just that.* We would, too, if we had the engines that could push our boat along that fast and the money for the fuel.** A semi-planing hull is something of a waste if you're not going to run it at semi-planing speeds.* If you're not, better off to buy a more efficient and appropriately powered displacement boat I think.

*What I observe, is that semi-displacement/planing hulls at hull speed don't roll as much as a similarly sized full displacement boat at the same speed.* The hard chines, while less efficient to push through the water, tend to have a stabilizing effect.

Which brings up the interesting phenomenom of when the SO suggests that maybe we should slow down because it's getting a little bumpy, there are many times that the correct solution is to speed up to increase the stabilizing influence of the hard-chines in order to provide more comfort.
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Old 08-08-2011, 07:50 PM   #40
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buying a trawler

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*What I observe, is that semi-displacement/planing hulls at hull speed don't roll as much as a similarly sized full displacement boat at the same speed.* The hard chines, while less efficient to push through the water, tend to have a stabilizing effect.
*Yes, BUT...... and it's a real big but..... the roll characteristic of a hard-chined, nearly flat aft section, semi-planing boat absolutely sucks, at least in a lot of people's opinion.* They may not roll as far but the motion is a lot more "violent" than what you get with the typical displacement hull.* A semi-planing hull like our GB has a very fast '"snap back" at the end of the roll.* You go over and then, wham, you start back.* As opposed to the much more gentle, albeit farther roll with more of an ease into the roll back that you get with*the typical*rounded displacement hull.

I know a few people who have moved from sailboats to power cruisers like GBs and the like.* Some of them are very happy with the ride.* Others absolutely hate it.* The complain bitterly about being "jerked around" in any sort of beam sea or when encountering a good size wake from another boat.* While my wife and I have no real objection to our boat's "snap back" roll, I always turn into the "Bayliner" wake that comes off so many plowing boats because if I don't and take the wake at all on the beam the GB will flip you on your head if you aren't careful.

In rough water with the waves coming from abeam or nearly abeam our dog has proven to be smarter than us.* At the first sign of significant rolling he heads for the aft cabin floor and lies down on the centerline of the boat.* He figured out on his own that this is the least "violent" spot he can get to.

Now I know there are people who hate the slower, deeper roll of a displacement boat.* I've experienced this movement in sailboats in Hawaii but that's not a fair comparison because sailboats have both the deep keel and the sails to stabilize the boat.* So I can't say I'd prefer it to our GB's roll characteristics.* We're used to what our boat does and have learned to stow everything that's not tied down if we think we're going to be in rougher water because if we don't that fast, snappy roll will toss it all over the cabin.

So it all depends on what an individual likes.* But this notion that a semi-planing hull is*less rolly*and so has a "better ride" needs to be taken with a grain of salt.* A better ride for one person may be a horrible ride for the next person.


-- Edited by Marin on Monday 8th of August 2011 07:57:05 PM
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