Buying delimma?

[toocoys]

So we’ve decided to buy. Both boats are equally a good deal.

1996 Mainship 37 M/Y with twin 454’s.

1978 Bertram M/Y (I believe it’s 42 or 47’) with twin Detroit’s.

Both are priced WAY under value, 50% under book value or more. Both mechanically sound and well cared for.

The obvious ownside to the Mainship is the gas engines. But on the flip side, the Bertram has MANY more systems to maintain and are more expensive to replace.

Both are laid out well and have been updated, the Bertram even has a dishwasher. And although the Bertram has a longer range, do I really need that if we aren’t doing major cruising for a least another decade?

Can you help me list some pros and cons of each? Keep in mind we’ve leased and lived aboard the Mainship since August so I know that boat inside and out.

 

[tiltrider1]

Gas engines are quieter and stink less, 454 parts are cheaper and even more available as are mechanics. 1996 is 18 years newer than 1978, this translates to things like gelcoat, shafts bearings, seals and so on.

Those are the advantages. The disadvantages are fuel economy and resale value.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. t. IF you're not going to be cruising much there really isn't any downside with gassers IF YOU'RE CAREFUL. No need to be insane about safety, just diligent.


Bertram will have more room but cost more to dock. The learning curve for a "new" boat will be pretty much what you went through with the Mainship IMO. Exactly the same, only different.

 

[Ski in NC]

Which Detroit engines? What model and what hp.

 

[toocoys]

Which Detroit engines? What model and what hp.

The extent of my diesel knowledge tells me that they are big ones. That’s about as much as I can tell you.

 

[Benthic2]

Here are 3 arguments against the Bertram

1. age ( as tiltrider mentions above )
2. more unknowns. Your familiarity with the Mainship means there won't be any little ( or big ) surprises
3. All your stuff is already in place.

 

[toocoys]

I really appreciate the feedback. We’ve been leaning towards the Mainship because I know the history (only two owners) and we’ve already gotten settled in it.

The whole gas vs diesel argument just sticks in my head, so I appreciate the honesty and not being flamed (no pun intended) for considering the gas engines.

 

[IRENE]

Cost of ownership should be much less with the newer and smaller Mainship, the exception possibly being insurance (gas). A couple of quotes would clear that up. On the Bertram, you can expect to be at service life on everything.

What is the exit strategy for each boat? Is the entry point such that you can get out easily should your situation change?

 

[OldDan1943]

Call me chicken but, big gasoline powered boats hold no interest for me. They go boom faster than a diesel powered boat.

 

[ranger58sb]

A 42' MY would be maybe 1/2 again bigger than the 37' Mainship? And a 47' would be half again bigger? So some of the potentially higher cost of ownership is about size and systems, not just age and diesels...

Anyway, pros and cons aside... which do you LIKE more?

Or if you like 'em both about the same, maybe there's more shopping to do...

DO learn what DDs they are in the Bertram; I dunno much about 'em, but somebody here is bound to be able to offers some factoids and opinions...

-Chris

 

[toocoys]

Call me chicken but, big gasoline powered boats hold no interest for me. They go boom faster than a diesel powered boat.

Aaaanndddd there’s the response I knew would show up eventually.

 

[toocoys]

Cost of ownership should be much less with the newer and smaller Mainship, the exception possibly being insurance (gas). A couple of quotes would clear that up. On the Bertram, you can expect to be at service life on everything.

What is the exit strategy for each boat? Is the entry point such that you can get out easily should your situation change?

Full coverage on the Mainship is$1300 a year.

 

[South of Heaven]

Coys: Chris (Ranger 42) made a good statement. Which one do you like more??

I like the idea of the 23 year old boat much more than the 41 year old boat. I'd rather buy the newer one if it were me.

 

[tiltrider1]

A poorly maintained gas boat in the hands of an ignorant boat operator is truly more dangerous than a poorly maintained diesel boat in the hands of an ignorant operator. I am not sure if oldDan1943 is telling us he maintains his boat poorly, is an ignorant operator or both.

 

[Gmarr]

I’m not pro either but I recall one of your very first posts was about the cost of the fuel in your previous boat- has that evolved? I have twin gassers and look at what new diesels have posted on YW everyday...

 

[Irish Rambler]

There are pro's and cons but I'm with old Dan on this one.
In my experience the older boats are built more solid and although a bit dearer to run I'd accept that and the Bertram would be my choice for a liveaboard.
Gas engines will only run on gas but diesels are more accommodating with other fuels but that another whole new ball game unless you are technically minded.

 

[OldDan1943]

A poorly maintained gas boat in the hands of an ignorant boat operator is truly more dangerous than a poorly maintained diesel boat in the hands of an ignorant operator. I am not sure if oldDan1943 is telling us he maintains his boat poorly, is an ignorant operator or both.

Perhaps it can be resolved in 2 words, I smoke.

Of course, there was the example years ago, a man in this marina bought a brand new gasoline powered boat. First day trip with his young son, the boat caught fire, made the evening news, burned to the water line. It was the result of a leak in the fuel line, (gas). He bought a replacement boat, gasoline powered and changed marina. His son was more than a bit skittish about being on the boat.

It is just my personal preference to have a diesel powered boat.

 

[toocoys]

I’m not pro either but I recall one of your very first posts was about the cost of the fuel in your previous boat- has that evolved? I have twin gassers and look at what new diesels have posted on YW everyday...

Fuel prices are running about $3.50/g for gas, and slightly less for diesel I think but it’s not significant.

For the price that I’d be getting the Mainship, I could run the 454’s until they die, and still be well within resale value even if I repowere with yanmar turbos or something.

 

[BandB]

So we’ve decided to buy. Both boats are equally a good deal.

1996 Mainship 37 M/Y with twin 454’s.

1978 Bertram M/Y (I believe it’s 42 or 47’) with twin Detroit’s.

Both are priced WAY under value, 50% under book value or more. Both mechanically sound and well cared for.

No, they are not priced under value. Their pricing is what someone considers their value. Book values mean nothing. Value is the price between a willing seller and buyer.

 

[toocoys]

No, they are not priced under value. Their pricing is what someone considers their value. Book values mean nothing. Value is the price between a willing seller and buyer.

Ok well then let me rephrase... based on current used prices on the same models, I’d be getting a 50% discount or better. Especially on the Mainship. Our friend is just ready to sell it and she really wants us to have it.

 

[Pau Hana]

Ok well then let me rephrase... based on current used prices on the same models, I’d be getting a 50% discount or better. Especially on the Mainship. Our friend is just ready to sell it and she really wants us to have it.

I’d buy the Mainship, flip it for a profit, and get a diesel boat.

 

[SoWhat]

There are thousands of gas boats running around. Just become a perfectionist when it comes to maintaining the fuel system. Replace all rubber hoses. Replace any fittings that are seeping. Check plugs to make sure carb's are adjusted correctly. Run the blowers before starting. Enjoy!

 

[Bacchus]

Toocoys
I see many diverse opinions here.
My $0.02
I had gassers and boated very enjoyably for 20 yrs before taking the leap to diesel. Given a choice and all things equal (which they never are) I'd pick a diesel Mainship but that's not in the mix. Explosion concerns thrown around but my take is there are a lot of gasser boats out there that run safely (likely more unexploded gassers than there are diesels).
Safety is in your hands and under your control... good maintenance and operating procedures are you friend and you can install fume detection as an aid as well.
Gas would not (and did not) stop me from boating.
You didn't mention, or I missed, eng hrs for each?
Kind of apples and oranges so you can't compare them to each other but how far are they from needing an overhaul / rebuild?
A compression check of the 454s relatively easy and informative re lurking issues... not as easy w the DDs.
My impression is you have already made your choice but are looking for confirmation or a major awakening you hadn't considered but I haven't heard that yet IMO.
If I interpreted your comments correctly the MS is a "closed" deal being offered to you? And the other is open market available to others?
If so that may say something about supply, demand and future value if/when you decide to sell.
Good luck w the selection and adventures.

 

[toocoys]

The engine hours on the Mainship are 640 on each engine. They were thoroughly gone through before we moved on, and they run excellently. They are EFI as well so no carb issues to deal with.

The engine hours on the Detroit’s are unknown but probably significantly higher.

As for my gas maintenance, I run my bilge blower at least twice a week, and check the engine hatches monthly. I always inspect my fuel connections at the tank and at the engine as well as inspect the lines for signs of deterioration.

The Mainship is owned by a close friend who had it on the market with a broker at $59k originally. They jacked her around, didn’t take care of it, and there were people sleeping on it at the sales dock. Which is why we decided to lease it from her. She currently offered us the Mainship at less than 50% of her original asking price.

Our slip rent would go up by $200 minimum for the Bertram - longer boat, longer slip.

 

[kthoennes]

We have that same Mainship, same year, same model. Like it a lot. Very comfortable in lots of ways and it seems well made generally, for the money. Only two downsides in my mind, one relatively common, the other more significant. Engine access is a pain the the neck. My skinny 10 year old son is the only one who is small enough to reach the outboard fuel filter on the port engine, for example. Good previous advice on maintaining the fuel lines and other hoses too. We'll be replacing the fuel lines this year, found bad cracks.

The biggest issue for me is windage. It's a very tall, high profile boat. 26,000 lbs is not light, but that boat still gets pushed around badly, even with all the windows rolled up in the canopy. We have a 20 knot rule of thumb at our marina - if it's blowing over 20 we won't go out because it's just too difficult to get in and out. We bought the boat in Newport RI and motored it to around Albany on the Hudson, through some badly windy weather the whole trip (well over 20 knots). We managed, but it tested every boating skill I could muster.

If you buy the MS, my 10 year old is available for hire for engine work. Have to build up the college fund..

 

[toocoys]

The biggest issue for me is windage. It's a very tall, high profile boat. 26,000 lbs is not light, but that boat still gets pushed around badly, even with all the windows rolled up in the canopy. We have a 20 knot rule of thumb at our marina - if it's blowing over 20 we won't go out because it's just too difficult to get in and out. We bought the boat in Newport RI and motored it to around Albany on the Hudson, through some badly windy weather the whole trip (well over 20 knots). We managed, but it tested every boating skill I could muster.

If you buy the MS, my 10 year old is available for hire for engine work. Have to build up the college fund..

Oh yes... the windage. I know it very well!!!

 

[JLD]

If it was me and my money, I would probably opt for the Mainship. You have been on this boat for a while now, and probably know most of its warts. The Bertram, however, is pretty much an unknown.

30K seems to be a great price for the Mainship. Make sure to have a mechanic re-survey the engines, as having to rebuild, with longblocks, could easily cost another 30K. Still might be cheaper than having to rebuild diesels on a 40 year-old Bertram!

The Mainship is likely cheaper to berth and maintain. Plus, as noted before, since its 19 years newer, will probably have less major projects to be done. I would also bet that 5 - 10 years down the road, the Mainship would be easier to sell.

Aesthetically, I prefer the lines on the Mainship 37 over Bertram 42 M/Y. I'm also not keen on boarding ladders from the swim platform, which I believe the Bertram has.

Jim

 

[Comodave]

All things being equal, if you can afford to maintain the larger boat, that is the way I would go. For full time live aboard I think larger is better. I would also want loose furniture as opposed to built in furniture.

 

[BandB]

Ok well then let me rephrase... based on current used prices on the same models, I’d be getting a 50% discount or better. Especially on the Mainship. Our friend is just ready to sell it and she really wants us to have it.

But current used prices even are just asking prices, not selling prices. Just keep in mind always that "when a deal sounds too good to be true, it probably is."

 

[FF]

"Run the blowers before starting. Enjoy!"


And SNIFF the blower vent before starting.