Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 10-11-2013, 05:59 PM   #1
Member
 
City: Gig Harbor, WA
Country: US
Vessel Name: Micki
Vessel Model: 42' Grand Banks
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 17
Buying a Boat

I'd been watching the price of a certain 42 foot Grand Banks drop for many months. It was getting close to the budget but there was one glaring problem; the boat was moored in Los Angeles and we lived in Gig Harbor WA, over 1000 nautical miles north.

We called the broker and offered an even lower price. With strained patience he explained since the last price drop two other higher offers had already come in (he turned out to be a good guy and I want to believe... but isn't that what they always say?) In return, I promised that if the seller agreed to our number I'd hop a plane the very next day, rent a car to San Pedro and spend no more than one hour on the boat before handing him a check if it was a go.

No survey, no sea trial. Just a 60 minute inspection that would include starting the engines cold then cash. Simple.

I reminded the broker what he knew only too well: If the seller accepted one of the higher offers and proceeded to a normal sales process, a picky surveyor could quickly reduce the closing price anyway. Daunting recommendations that result in a distress or failed sale are common on a 35 year old boat. In any case, I was only asking for a 24 hour commitment from the sellers and no matter what the outcome, my visit wouldn't result in a known bad survey, they could proceed with the other buyers.

Less than 24 hrs later I stepped off the plane into brilliant Long Beach sunshine. An exciting journey had begun!

The 60 Minute Survey
I figured unless Micki had serious problems I was buying her right, so dollar risk was low. But I wanted a boat that could make the trip back to the Northwest on her own bottom. Trucking a 44,000 lb vessel has become prohibitively expense, it's not even allowed on many of the direct routes to the Seattle area. Propulsion, steering/navigation and basic structural integrity was what mattered to me, there were too many aged parts on the boat to anticipate everything else that could happen. A trip like this is sort of like driving a 35 year old truck cross the country on dirt roads (brutal) so you focus on what will get you there and try to avoid getting lost in the details.

I hopped down into the engine room. It looked forgotten but seemed in basic good order. The fluids were decent and I verified the machinery was dead cold. Belts and hoses looked okay and double clamped. With a knife I scrapped the bronze thru-hulls to check for shiny gold color (verses pink that indicates wastage). Propeller shafts looked great. Batteries were newer and sealed. Steering gear checked out fine. Fuel tanks had been replaced properly. Throttle and shift cables renewed. Wiring was original and quite sanitary. Aft I scrapped rudder posts, checked strut supports and inspected more steering gear. Everywhere I looked seemed to verify the broker's story: A once well cared for vessel that was sentenced to 5 years of utter neglect after its owner died. This Grand Banks sat baking in a sunny corner of Los Angeles Harbor for half a decade until out of state survivors decided it was time to sell her. The exterior suffered moderate UV damage but window canvas had preserved most of the interior.

I poked the window corners for soft wood, banged on the cabin sides for dull thuds and jumped up and down on the decks for movement that might indicate sub-teak damage (my plan is glass decks but that can be a massive undertaking with sub-surface damage). Not too surprisingly - since it had lived it's entire life in a desert climate- the boat felt bone dry and solid.

The engines started easily and smoked just the amount I'd expect to see from cold 2000 hour Ford Lehmans. A decent raw water exhaust flow told me impellers worked and the system wasn't blocked with corrosion or debris. No unexpected noises.

While the engines idled to warm I jumped off the boat to search for a diver. Normally marinas in Southern California are teaming with bottom cleaners and today was no exception: I found my guy exactly 3 boats away.

While my underwater inspector finished his day job I tied Micki to the concrete dock with every line and fender I could find then ran her in forward and reverse until I lost my nerve - about 1400 RPMs. There was almost no vibration and both transmissions shifted fine. I reinspected the engine room for oil leaks or other surprises. All was well - so much for a sea trial.

The diver showed up and after getting a quick lesson on cutlass bearing inspection he scraped all underwater bronze for pink, checked the props and shafts, looked for blisters on the hull and performed his normal maintenance routine. There wasn't much bottom paint left, but an underwater maintenance routine was still going; things below the waterline were in great shape - so much for a haul out.

I spent the rest of the "1 hr survey" discovering all the electronics worked fine and looking through an astounding collection of records complied since the day she'd been sold new. In the end I surmised that exterior cosmetics aside, Micki was really somewhat of a bit of a barn find.

I called my Second Mate to report the findings and we bought ourselves an old boat!

Free Advice
There's a popular mantra; "You make your own luck". My interpretation of that is you find your own luck. But I can't remember anytime in the last 50 years that Lady Fortuna graced me while I was thinking or planning. It's the talking or doing that's completely another matter. That's when I get lucky.

The next week was a flurry of get-the-boat-ready activity. Six dumpsters of 35 years of accumulation. Lines, old fenders, dock cords and dozens of other items were stacked neatly in front of the trash receptacles already filled to the brim with Micki's history. The marina maintenance crew hated me.

Whirlwind days were punctuated with visits from local marina residents. Word of my travel intentions had spread quickly and unsolicited advice was coming my direction. Open mindedness being one of my weaknesses, I politely listened and considered some of their help:

"Don't even think about making the trip by yourself". That was logical. But the problem was I didn't have anyone else to take. People I felt good about voyaging with were busy at work. Others available had little or no experience (when you ask someone if they get sea-sick and they're not sure... I mean, really?) It would serve little purpose to worry about a newbie. A professional captain offered to assist me for $4000.00 "If everything went exactly as planned" - I wondered how everything could be expected to go exactly as planned while trekking a thousand miles uphill on a 40 ft boat; would not weather and sea condition dictate plan? Finally I agreed to pay travel and expenses to a neighboring live-aboard that seemed pretty experienced and told me he wanted sea time to qualify for a Master's license. For an hour I answered his questions about the boat and my experience level and all seemed good. Then he stepped back, looked at me with a very serious expression and asked the big question; "Sooooo. Are you 100% confident this boat can make that trip then?" I replied that I wasn't 100% confident about anything. Nothing, not one thing! And in fact I believed that soaring confidence was actually a recipe for disaster. With a frown he retired to sleep on it... then declined the next morning, explaining that he had; "a bad feeling about the trip". That seemed a bit ominous but I brightened considerably a few minutes later when my wif called and started with; "She had a good feeling about the trip".

"Don't even think about making that trip without a chart plotter". It's not that I didn't want a chart plotter and in fact I still do... Close to the top of my wish list! But with good paper charts, depth sounder, gps, auto pilot and functioning radar... let's just say, it's been done safely with much, much less.

The list goes on and on... Among the worst advice I received - by countless armchair coastal passage makers - was something I actually thought made sense:

"Head way out, where the water is calmer. Stay away from land - land is not your friend". An encounter with a professional changed my thinking on that. Talking with other people is the best way I know to get lucky. But it's important to consider who you're talking with. I figured the Master of Foss Maritime's 4000 hp 107 foot tractor tug Arthur Foss was a pretty good resource.

Luck at the Fuel Dock
I tied onto a large commercial fueling dock in Los Angeles Harbor and boldly announced my intent to purchase as much as 650 gallons of diesel. The attendant was painfully unimpressed and it didn't take long to see why: Shortly afterwards a 107' Foss tractor tug pulled in behind me for a "quick top off - only 22,000 gallons". Pride turned into gratitude as the man took my money at commercial rates and politely suggested off-hours would be the best idea next time if I ever needed "that much fuel" again.

I admired the big tugboat as it fueled. The crew moved slowly but deliberately as the Master watched calmly from the bridge. I couldn't contain myself and looking up from the dock I asked; "Are you the Master of this tug?" knowing full well he was. He nodded politely. "Are you going to Seattle?" I asked. He laughed and told me no time in the near future - he hoped.

I picked up on his dislike of that particular trip and explained I was headed out the next day to do it myself. "On that?!?" he looked over at my boat. "By yourself?!?"

I smiled and told him I could guess what he was thinking... But I'd decided to do it - I was going. Did he have any advice? He answered every question I could muster and offered countless tips, one after the other. We talked until I ran out of questions, far too long. At the end of that lucky encounter many of my assumptions and plans had changed, some drastically.

For instance, I explained that I'd been told by many that once north of Point Conception the trip would become easier. To that his entire crew roared with laughter. "It gets A LOT WORSE after the point" he said to me, nodding in disbelief. "In fact, the higher you go the worse it gets". I was glad to give everyone a good laugh but my stomach was starting to twang a bit with nervousness.

He also explained that the popular route to stay far from land was, from his 30 years experience in those waters, completely flawed - that many times he'd hauled a fuel barge just 1.5 miles offshore to avoid rough seas. He urged me to buy a Coast Pilot (a book I didn't even know existed) and to simply navigate "from point to point". Staying 2 to 5 miles offshore would keep me in crab pot territory so daylight running was the only smart option. And each leg needed to start at any hint of morning light, since ducking into strange harbors (many with dangerous bars) was a daylight endeavor.

I literally talked my way up the coast, bouncing from commercial fishing boat captains to Coast Guard Officers at every harbor. It's amazing that virtually every professional I talked with agreed that calmer and safer waters are close to shore - but that almost everything I read online is to the contrary.

I pulled away from that fuel dock feeling very lucky. My chance encounter helped turn vague ideas about getting home (based on internet research and popular advice) into a rock solid plan backed by real world experience. Yes, I'd gotten very lucky.

Next: The trip back.
__________________
Advertisement

Trawler Micki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2013, 06:19 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Russell Clifton's Avatar
 
City: Marysville, Wa.
Country: usa
Vessel Name: Sea Fever
Vessel Model: Defever 49 RPH
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 284
Sounds like to me you know what you are doing. Can't wait for the next chapter. Good luck
__________________

Russell Clifton is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2013, 06:47 PM   #3
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 25
Great post. Really enjoyed it. Look forward to your next post.
VAtrawlerguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2013, 06:57 PM   #4
TF Site Team
 
Pau Hana's Avatar


 
City: Seattle, WA
Country: Good Ol' US of A!
Vessel Name: Pau Hana
Vessel Model: 1989 PT52 Overseas Yachtfisher
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,647
While professionally I cringe (no survey, minimal preparation for a trip of this magnitude, etc) I must say: "Well Played, Sir!" The bottom line is that you completed the trip safely- and that says more than anything else.
__________________
Peter- Marine Insurance Guru & tuna fishing addict!

1989 52' PT Overseas yachtfisher
Pau Hana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2013, 08:16 PM   #5
Moderator Emeritus
 
jwnall's Avatar
 
City: St. Marks, Florida
Country: US
Vessel Name: Morgan
Vessel Model: Gulfstar 36
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,621
Loved it! And eagerly anticipating the next chapter!

John
__________________
John
jwnall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2013, 08:25 PM   #6
Guru
 
Daddyo's Avatar


 
City: Cruising East Coast US
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Grace
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,441
Great job!!
__________________
Mark Bowerman
Brokerage owner and cruiser
Esse Quam Videri
http://graceyachting.com/
Daddyo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2013, 10:12 PM   #7
Guru
 
AusCan's Avatar
 
City: Adelaide
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Kokanee
Vessel Model: Cuddles 30 Pilot House Motor Sailer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,097
Micki - That's the best post I've read in a long time. I can relate to your way of thinking.
Yes - you make your own "luck". When the opportunity arises - jump on it.
Congratulations on your purchase! Looking forward to chapter 2.
AusCan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2013, 11:11 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
bshillam's Avatar
 
City: Bellingham, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Our Heaven
Vessel Model: Willard 30' Searcher
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 471
Awesome post. Congrats on your new vessel and the adventure it has already brought to you!
__________________
Bringing the love of wood and water together, we create something you will treasure from the day you first row, sail, or power.
bshillam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2013, 11:21 PM   #9
Guru
 
Tidahapah's Avatar
 
City: Mooloolaba
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Tidahapah
Vessel Model: Bert Ellis Timber motor cruiser
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,779
Mate,
That was fantastic.
Love a man that is happy with his own abilities and can sus out all the extra info and sort the s##t from the good stuff.
More power to you for making your own luck and now for the good times and hard work.
Loved your story and keep us in the loop.
Cheers
Benn
__________________
"When I die I hope my wife doesn't sell my toys for what I told her I paid for them"
Money: It's made round to go round , not flat to stack.
"Get out and do it"
Tidahapah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2013, 01:09 AM   #10
Art
Guru
 
Art's Avatar
 
City: SF Bay Area
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Tollycraft 34' Tri Cabin
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 7,985
Great post. Hot damn good and lucky journey! May your luck stay with you!
Art is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2013, 01:30 AM   #11
TF Site Team
 
FlyWright's Avatar
 
City: California Delta and SF Bay
Country: Sacramento, CA, USA (boat in Vallejo)
Vessel Name: FlyWright
Vessel Model: Marshall Californian 34 LRC
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,193
Good page-turner! I like your style. I love success stories from guys who break away from the norm through experience and lessons learned. I'm anxiously awaiting the next chapter.
__________________
Al

Custom Google Trawler Forum Search
FlyWright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2013, 08:39 AM   #12
Veteran Member
 
Irdiverdan's Avatar
 
City: Marietta
Country: USA
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 98
Excellent read...Love your "git 'er dun" attitude...And I agree that luck is not arbitrary...you make it yourself by acting on a plan and moving forward etc.. Looking forward to more...
__________________
Dan
________________________
Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati
Irdiverdan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2013, 09:38 AM   #13
TF Site Team
 
ksanders's Avatar
 
City: SEWARD ALASKA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: LISAS WAY
Vessel Model: BAYLINER 4788
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,956
What a great story!

Great writing as well... You put the reader in your shoes. Fantastic!
__________________
Kevin Sanders
Bayliner 4788
Seward, Alaska
www.mvlisasway.com
ksanders is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2013, 10:38 AM   #14
Guru
 
kthoennes's Avatar
 
City: Sioux Falls, South Dakota
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Xanadu
Vessel Model: Mainship 37 Motor Yacht
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 857
We bought ours just about the same way - phone call on Thursday, flew to Dallas on Friday night, "one hour" inspection on Lake Texoma, bought it, flew home. We weren't nearly as thorough as the OP, but we got lucky and it's a great boat. Sometimes that approach works out. Good thread, thanks.
kthoennes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2013, 12:01 PM   #15
Member
 
City: Gig Harbor, WA
Country: US
Vessel Name: Micki
Vessel Model: 42' Grand Banks
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pau Hana View Post
While professionally I cringe (no survey, minimal preparation for a trip of this magnitude, etc) I must say: "Well Played, Sir!" The bottom line is that you completed the trip safely- and that says more than anything else.
Thank you (and others too!) Safety is a complicated thing - the maritime world we love is full of risk. While not every boating mishap results in a drowning or fatality, safety procedures and equipment offer no guarantee of stoppage or containment. Unexpected circumstances can snowball into unmanageable outcomes. Climbing into a life raft in heavy seas is difficult at best, assuming you even get the chance. The raft offers no warranty of survival. Ditto fire extinguishers, survival suits, VHF radios, life vests, wooden bungs, the list goes on.

I think the best way to manage risk is by layering. Lets say a motorcyclist survives a traffic accident because he was wearing a helmet, one of the last-resort items in his arsenal of protection. But far lower in the hierarchy of body armor we find a simple pair of gloves might have saved the day. A bee sting moments before collision reduced his skill level to utter distraction. Could gloves have eliminated the need for head protection? Wearing both would be better of course. But which would you rather fall back on?

The bee sting scenario isn't far fetched. It illustrates how calamities can unfold from unlikely or trivial events.

On March 10th 2012 the 62 foot fishing vessel Lady Cecelia was running 12 miles off the Washington coast with expert crew, a fisheries observer and every piece of safety equipment imaginable. She sank so quickly that there wasn't even radio contact during the incident. Sadly, all was lost. Divers examined the wreckage site to determine the cause was - almost unbelievably - a crab pot.

In southern latitudes I knew I had a dingy one slice of a line away, that I was a very solid swimmer only a couple miles out and the boat had insurance (amazing insurance story in my next post). Farther north I added a good wet suit. Those were my "motorcycle helmets" - the scorched-earth-last-resort backstops, keeping me alive and protecting others. The more important things (imo) keep me from needing them: Good sleep, daylight travel, proper meals, real time info etc...

In the end, if you want to enjoy being on the water, it's important to keep things in perspective - how dangerous was my trip compared to reading a book or surfing the web? Damn crazy! Compared to my daily commute through Seattle traffic? -that would be interesting to know
Trawler Micki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2013, 12:26 PM   #16
Guru
 
hollywood8118's Avatar
 
City: Port Townsend Washington
Country: USA
Vessel Name: " OTTER "
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander Europa 40
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,482
Micki,
Contrad on the purchase and the trip, everything from this point with the boat should pale in comparison and should be a non issue.

We just bought in a similar fashion albeit without the journey after.
I did my own 4 hr "survey" and a one hour actual sea trial. Four months into really tearing into the boat and I have not found anything I didn't know prior to writing the check. I am absolutely satisfied.

I also tried a different tack in regards to my insurance survey, I wrote up a letter to the insurance company detailing my history,experience and references in the yachting community and asked for the opportunity to self survey the vessel. I was given the opportunity to do that and did a detailed survey and listed any and all deficiencies and items corrected or to be. My 10 page report was complete and detailed enough to get great coverage for a 30 year old boat.
Not to chastise all surveyors, but I have seen "professional marine surveyors" that I wouldn't rely to adequately survey a 10' pram miss major issues in their surveys.
This was no real time saver, I spent about two days to do the inspection and write the report, I did save the second haul out, I did my prepurchase time on the hard so I had spent a bunch of time on the hull prior to splashing for the sea trial.
HOLLYWOOD
hollywood8118 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2013, 01:46 PM   #17
Member
 
City: Gig Harbor, WA
Country: US
Vessel Name: Micki
Vessel Model: 42' Grand Banks
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by hollywood8118 View Post
Micki,
Contrad on the purchase and the trip, everything from this point with the boat should pale in comparison and should be a non issue.

We just bought in a similar fashion albeit without the journey after.
I did my own 4 hr "survey" and a one hour actual sea trial. Four months into really tearing into the boat and I have not found anything I didn't know prior to writing the check. I am absolutely satisfied.

I also tried a different tack in regards to my insurance survey, I wrote up a letter to the insurance company detailing my history,experience and references in the yachting community and asked for the opportunity to self survey the vessel. I was given the opportunity to do that and did a detailed survey and listed any and all deficiencies and items corrected or to be. My 10 page report was complete and detailed enough to get great coverage for a 30 year old boat.
Not to chastise all surveyors, but I have seen "professional marine surveyors" that I wouldn't rely to adequately survey a 10' pram miss major issues in their surveys.
This was no real time saver, I spent about two days to do the inspection and write the report, I did save the second haul out, I did my prepurchase time on the hard so I had spent a bunch of time on the hull prior to splashing for the sea trial.
HOLLYWOOD
There's some great surveyors out there that have forgotten more than I know... I was a marine surveyor - certainly not one of the "greats" I speak of.

I had a busy schedule in Newport Beach CA actually getting paid to roll around in short pants w/ clipboard looking at boats. At very most I'd consider my knowledge level at that time semi-decent; I was good at faking the rest. Banks and insurance companies trusted me. Client buyers thought I spoke the gospel. And brokers trusted me not to F'up their deal... One day I learned what that really meant:

Standing in a shipyard looking up at an $800,000 Bertram with the broker on one side of me and the buyer on the other - I very strongly suspected the hull was just starting to delaminate. In a nut-shell my "real" job was to communicate (aka disclose) it's problems to the buyer while at the same time keeping the yacht deal together. I carried no E/O insurance and it was obvious a person buying this boat could afford an attorney with more horsepower than me. Never mind that back then (I doubt things have changed) Newport was a small/tight brokerage community - word of a surveyor messing up an 800k deal (and we're talking 1984 dollars) would have spread quickly - meaning no more short pants and clipboard.

It's a very, very tough gig to do the right way. I greatly admire the truly autonomous surveyors that have worked themselves into that position (of autonomy). To all the others I'd say - go get a real job.
Trawler Micki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2013, 02:02 PM   #18
Art
Guru
 
Art's Avatar
 
City: SF Bay Area
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Tollycraft 34' Tri Cabin
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 7,985
To All:

Word of caution and of praise!

Caution:
Although I know that I and most other decades experienced boaters (such as OP to this thread and posters 14 and 15... as well as this post – by me; and many others on TF archives too) consistently recommend that a full boat survey by reputable marine surveyor and full mechanical survey by reputable marine mechanic be performed on every boat before signing the check... there are occasions where we with decades boat experiences will not fully adhere that rule ourselves. However, I feel strongly that the “Get two Surveys” rule of thumb should always be practiced by those who are brand new or novice to boats and the boating world. For newbie/novice boaters, until you really know what boats are made of and what the many different levels of boating are all about... the acronym is – BSTS, i.e. “Better Safe Than Sorry”... the name of this game in our boating world. Because, if there is a big problem with a boat you want to purchase and you are not aware of it before either getting applicable discount price or walking away from the deal... you may become very sorry that the cost for repairs swamps you spendable cash or worse yet becomes nearly impossible to rectify. That does happen to some who purchase a “bummer” boat they thought would be just fine. My suggestion: If you are new to boats or the boating world – > Rely on “reputable” experts to accomplish surveys before you purchase. And, read all you can in forums such as TF as well as in other links in the web... all info should be taken with a grain of salt, of course!

Praise:
When for decades boat worthy persons have been around boats and many marine doings, as well as having personally owned, used, and repaired/maintained (for years on each boat) a few to many boats... then we become pretty competent in accomplishing our own surveys... especially when the “correct” deal comes along and time is of the essence!

As the others in this thread I too have done my own boat and mechanical surveys... especially when need be to close quickly on a “real deal”. That said, I utilize my comprehensive set of survey tools and pay attention to any previous (old) survey available for that boat; as well as closely reviewing any papers on the boat from PO’s. If PO is available – I grill em hard! If area marine mechanic knows/serviced the boat I chat deeply with them too. All in all I have personally, closely surveyed (top to bottom) over 20 boats (did a cursory, light survey-review on at least 20 more; out of that I purchased 5 boats. Four were as good as or better than my expectations. I made an error on one and it did not work out the way I envisioned, but, because the price I paid was so low when I had performed 50% of repairs needed and carefully explained to next owner what was left to accomplish I near doubled my money... so it worked out for us all in the long run and the guy I sold to is still happily using that craft!

If I ever get serious enough to purchase a fairly large boat, for long range Pacific coastal (60’ + / $300K +)... I will first do my complete survey – but – then no matter how good I feel the boat may be or the $$$ deal could become - - > I will hire two surveyors and be with them as they survey to see if I was correct or maybe missed something. Good marine surveyors can be worth their weight in gold when it comes to actual boat value and buyer’s leverage at the deal-making table!

There’s a lot to boating! Decades in it builds knowledge base. Fun is to be had!

Happy Boating Daze!! – Art
Art is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2013, 03:16 PM   #19
Senior Member
 
jukesy's Avatar
 
City: Victoria BC
Vessel Name: LUCKY US
Vessel Model: American Tug
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 268
while at the same time keeping the yacht deal together

No disrespect trawler mick. But the last thing a surveyor should be doing is trying to keep a deal together. I'm paying for unbiased and honest opinion. If it's a piece if shit and I should run the other way then that's what I'm paying for. Despite how bad I want the deal. I think this is where we head down a slippery slope when trying to trust surveys and the people who write them. Just my opinion.
jukesy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2013, 03:44 PM   #20
GFC
Guru
 
GFC's Avatar
 
City: Tri Cities, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Beachcomber
Vessel Model: Sea Ray 550 Sedan Bridge
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,705
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trawler Micki View Post
Standing in a shipyard looking up at an $800,000 Bertram with the broker on one side of me and the buyer on the other - I very strongly suspected the hull was just starting to delaminate. In a nut-shell my "real" job was to communicate (aka disclose) it's problems to the buyer while at the same time keeping the yacht deal together. I carried no E/O insurance and it was obvious a person buying this boat could afford an attorney with more horsepower than me. Never mind that back then (I doubt things have changed) Newport was a small/tight brokerage community - word of a surveyor messing up an 800k deal (and we're talking 1984 dollars) would have spread quickly - meaning no more short pants and clipboard.

It's a very, very tough gig to do the right way. I greatly admire the truly autonomous surveyors that have worked themselves into that position (of autonomy). To all the others I'd say - go get a real job.
I'm going to call Bu!!shit on this whole thing. So what you're saying is that you practice situational ethics, or more directly stated, what you're saying is that your ethical standards were for sale. IMO that's exactly NOT the kind of surveyor I'd want to hire in the future. If the word got out that you thought the hull might be delaminating and you failed to bring it to the attention of the buyer because it might jeopardize your future business income, what effect do you think that might have had on your future income?

Sorry Micki, buy my conscience also suggests/demands that I speak out about a couple of things in your posts, and I'm probably going to take a blasting for doing it, but I feel I must. There are too many instances in the short time you've been posting in this thread that suggests you are driven more by money than by common sense. I'm as big a cheapskate as the next guy, but I would never let my desire to save money override my common sense. Here's what I'm talking about.....

First of all, I think it's literally insane for a person to do a '1-hour survey' of a boat that he's never seen before writing a check to buy it then take it on a lengthy ocean trip. To me, that suggests that money was the main driving force behind your actions. A good survey of a boat like you bought can take a full day or more to complete. To attempt to do even a cursory survey in an hour is nuts.

Then, you declined the offer of a professional captain to do the trip for $4,000 because it might have ended up costing you more due to delays. Really? Ignoring the value of the boat for a moment, at that point you are basically saying "my life might be worth $4,000 but not any more than that."

That you were able to complete the trip by yourself instead of ending up as the next Darwin Award recipient we would read about on here does not mean that it was a wise thing to do. It wasn't, and there's no way to paint this lunatic adventure as being safe. There are too many things that can go wrong on a boat, especially a boat on the ocean, to make doing a trip like this on your own as anything but nuts.

And you did this trip without a GPS plotter. Granted, in the early history of our country people navigated up and down the coasts without plotters, but look at how many of them were lost at sea. On a risk/reward scale, with the only reward being the savings of money, this just doesn't pencil out.

That you took the advice of the skipper of a HUGE tug when he suggested you stay close to shore is also questionable. He can do that because the waves and wind don't affect his tug the way they would your boat. And this was the skipper who told you he wouldn't want to be heading to Seattle any time soon? Does that sound a bit questionable to you? Probably the truest thing he said to you was when he questioned you "on that?" and "by yourself?"

He had to be laughing inside when you told him of your plans. People periodically go over Niagara Falls but that doesn't necessarily mean it's safe.

I'm glad you made it back to Seattle. I'd hate to think we've have been reading about you on TF in a thread titled "Did you see what this nut tried to do?"

BTW, if you ever decide to make this trip, or a similar trip again in the future, please don't call me. I'll be too busy that day.
__________________

__________________
Mike and Tina
Beachcomber 1995 Sea Ray 550 Sedan Bridge
GFC is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
boat purchase, grand banks, luck, negotiating

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:41 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012