timjet
Guru
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2009
- Messages
- 1,920
I have been looking in earnest for a trawler/motor cruiser for the last couple of months. I began my search without the help of a broker. With the internet listing all available boats I found no reason to enlist a broker. Besides I felt that as sometimes happens in Real Estate,*a listing broker may be willing to take a cut in his commission to facilitate a sale especially if there is no buyers broker involved.
After looking at 15 boats listed by 7 different brokers I have made some conclusions.The most pleasant experience when viewing a boat has been those boats where the owner was present, 2 were for sale by owner and one was an owner showing me his boat due to the unavailability of the broker. All of these folks were pleasant to speak with, had above average boats and I felt were far more knowledgeable about their boats than most brokers. All were willing to talk about their boats, boating in general and the local cruising area. Each one would have been a joy to share an evening drink, and watch the sun set at a secluded anchorage. I recently sold my sailboat without a broker, *and the several people I came into contact with in the process of selling my boat were very similar.
So you may be thinking that I find brokers to be an un-necessary distraction. For the most part I think this is true, until you find the right broker.
I had one broker that only reluctantly showed me boats on a Saturday because he didnt work weekends. He also tried to convince me that my concerns about the numerous leaks and the ton of work necessary to bring the boat up to seaworthy condition were inconsequential. And to top it off dont tell me as were about to leave this derelict that the seller is a friend and he took great care of the mechanics on this boat. Youve already convinced me that youll do anything to sell me this boat even if you have to lie and misrepresent it to get a sale. This broker showed me 5 boats in one day, all that I had selected from his brokerage. I never heard from him again- no follow up.
I contacted a seller listing his boat through a forum and asked if his brokerage contract allowed him some leeway in his commission payment if he sold the boat directly. It did not but the seller informed the broker of our contact. The broker contacted me directly and asked if I was prepared to pay at least 90% of the listing price. *I told the broker I could not negotiate a price over e-mail sight unseen. The boat suddenly became more difficult to schedule a viewing. The boat is still for sale at the original price.
Another broker agreed to show me a boat even though I explained to him I could not buy a boat until my current boat sold. After showing me the boat he asked to see my boat. After viewing it I asked his opinion and he said he would list it for 15k but I could realistically expect to get 12K. I sold it myself 5 months later for 17k.
So is a broker really necessary? My answer to that question based on my experiences so far is absolutely yes if you can find the right one. I accidently stumbled onto a great broker when I scheduled a viewing on a boat he was listing on the internet. After viewing the boat he asked my opinions. Before answering I asked if I could have a few private minutes on the boat to discuss it with my wife. I thus had an idea of what she thought of the boat before relaying anything to the broker. I then told the broker all the things we didnt like and those we did like. He didnt once try to tell me I was wrong on any of my opinions and agreed with my observations. He did correct me on some things and explained that certain issues were common to this boat as well as many others in this vintage. He also asked me questions that could give him an idea of what we were looking for and surprisingly asked my wife directly what she thought. We spent 2 hours looking at this boat and not once did he try to hurry us along. Since that viewing he has suggested several boats and has gotten information on several others we have mentioned to him. He steered us away from one boat that I had high anticipations for when he called the listing broker and found the owner had painted the boat himself. My broker explained that this can be a real problem in the future if the prep work was not done right. As he explained, its unlikely a seller is going to do the work properly if he is simply going to turn around and sell it. The listing broker apparently had concerns about the paint job when my broker asked him about it.
So if you are a buyer in search of a broker here is what I suggest.
Ask friends for recommendations, but judge them like any broker listing a boat. Youll soon know if this guy is working for you or for himself.
Realize that even though it is a buyers market and you are in the drivers seat, treat each broker with respect until he loses that respect. Be respectful of a brokers time, but if he just cant seem to work out a time to show you a boat, drop him and move on.
Some brokers especially in SE Florida are accustomed to selling million dollar boats. To some brokers a $100,000 boat is hardly worth the time. Youll sense this immediately, drop them fast.
If a broker is not familiar with a boat he is showing this should be a major red flag. Even though it may not be his listing he should have called the listing broker and found out about the boat. If he seems unfamiliar with the systems on the boat, then he probably has not been in the business long. Send him back to home depot where he belongs. For this reason its probably prudent to ask many questions about a boat even if you know the answer. You can quickly judge the brokers knowledge. My broker was able to tell me the planning characterizes of the boat he listed as well as the speeds where the most economical operation is attained. This guy knows his boats and it shows.
If certain design characteristics of a boat are unsatisfactory (like no walk thru transom) and the broker tries to convince you that your concerns are not important or more likely that you can live with it by practicing the high jump, realize quickly that he doesnt have your interest at heart.
Dont be influenced by a brokers fancy web site. Some brokers have much time on their hands and spend hours designing their web sites rather than selling boats. One broker I mentioned above has an absolutely fabulous web site.
If you do find a good broker, dont expect him to suggest a reasonable offer. It is unfair to put him in that position. Realize there is an inherent conflict of interest. Even asking if an offer has been made on a boat in my opinion is unwise. A sellers situation may have changed since the last offer. Realize again that the most motivated sellers have done everything they can to make their boat look good. They may not be so motivated to accept any offer that comes along, but you can bet a motivated seller will know the market, price his boat right and make the boat look as good as it can. *
Expect to participate in this boat buying experience. Dont expect the broker to find all the boats you should consider. Most all boats are listed on the internet and you should guide your broker with selections youve made.
Lastly, I think its important if you find a good broker to let him know you will stick with him until together, you find a boat. A good broker will spend much time not only searching for a boat, but working with other brokers to find the right boat for you. If you find a good broker and he finds the right boat for you ask him if he would buy the boat himself if he intended to use it as you would. If you trust the broker, his answer may be very enlightening.
After looking at 15 boats listed by 7 different brokers I have made some conclusions.The most pleasant experience when viewing a boat has been those boats where the owner was present, 2 were for sale by owner and one was an owner showing me his boat due to the unavailability of the broker. All of these folks were pleasant to speak with, had above average boats and I felt were far more knowledgeable about their boats than most brokers. All were willing to talk about their boats, boating in general and the local cruising area. Each one would have been a joy to share an evening drink, and watch the sun set at a secluded anchorage. I recently sold my sailboat without a broker, *and the several people I came into contact with in the process of selling my boat were very similar.
So you may be thinking that I find brokers to be an un-necessary distraction. For the most part I think this is true, until you find the right broker.
I had one broker that only reluctantly showed me boats on a Saturday because he didnt work weekends. He also tried to convince me that my concerns about the numerous leaks and the ton of work necessary to bring the boat up to seaworthy condition were inconsequential. And to top it off dont tell me as were about to leave this derelict that the seller is a friend and he took great care of the mechanics on this boat. Youve already convinced me that youll do anything to sell me this boat even if you have to lie and misrepresent it to get a sale. This broker showed me 5 boats in one day, all that I had selected from his brokerage. I never heard from him again- no follow up.
I contacted a seller listing his boat through a forum and asked if his brokerage contract allowed him some leeway in his commission payment if he sold the boat directly. It did not but the seller informed the broker of our contact. The broker contacted me directly and asked if I was prepared to pay at least 90% of the listing price. *I told the broker I could not negotiate a price over e-mail sight unseen. The boat suddenly became more difficult to schedule a viewing. The boat is still for sale at the original price.
Another broker agreed to show me a boat even though I explained to him I could not buy a boat until my current boat sold. After showing me the boat he asked to see my boat. After viewing it I asked his opinion and he said he would list it for 15k but I could realistically expect to get 12K. I sold it myself 5 months later for 17k.
So is a broker really necessary? My answer to that question based on my experiences so far is absolutely yes if you can find the right one. I accidently stumbled onto a great broker when I scheduled a viewing on a boat he was listing on the internet. After viewing the boat he asked my opinions. Before answering I asked if I could have a few private minutes on the boat to discuss it with my wife. I thus had an idea of what she thought of the boat before relaying anything to the broker. I then told the broker all the things we didnt like and those we did like. He didnt once try to tell me I was wrong on any of my opinions and agreed with my observations. He did correct me on some things and explained that certain issues were common to this boat as well as many others in this vintage. He also asked me questions that could give him an idea of what we were looking for and surprisingly asked my wife directly what she thought. We spent 2 hours looking at this boat and not once did he try to hurry us along. Since that viewing he has suggested several boats and has gotten information on several others we have mentioned to him. He steered us away from one boat that I had high anticipations for when he called the listing broker and found the owner had painted the boat himself. My broker explained that this can be a real problem in the future if the prep work was not done right. As he explained, its unlikely a seller is going to do the work properly if he is simply going to turn around and sell it. The listing broker apparently had concerns about the paint job when my broker asked him about it.
So if you are a buyer in search of a broker here is what I suggest.
Ask friends for recommendations, but judge them like any broker listing a boat. Youll soon know if this guy is working for you or for himself.
Realize that even though it is a buyers market and you are in the drivers seat, treat each broker with respect until he loses that respect. Be respectful of a brokers time, but if he just cant seem to work out a time to show you a boat, drop him and move on.
Some brokers especially in SE Florida are accustomed to selling million dollar boats. To some brokers a $100,000 boat is hardly worth the time. Youll sense this immediately, drop them fast.
If a broker is not familiar with a boat he is showing this should be a major red flag. Even though it may not be his listing he should have called the listing broker and found out about the boat. If he seems unfamiliar with the systems on the boat, then he probably has not been in the business long. Send him back to home depot where he belongs. For this reason its probably prudent to ask many questions about a boat even if you know the answer. You can quickly judge the brokers knowledge. My broker was able to tell me the planning characterizes of the boat he listed as well as the speeds where the most economical operation is attained. This guy knows his boats and it shows.
If certain design characteristics of a boat are unsatisfactory (like no walk thru transom) and the broker tries to convince you that your concerns are not important or more likely that you can live with it by practicing the high jump, realize quickly that he doesnt have your interest at heart.
Dont be influenced by a brokers fancy web site. Some brokers have much time on their hands and spend hours designing their web sites rather than selling boats. One broker I mentioned above has an absolutely fabulous web site.
If you do find a good broker, dont expect him to suggest a reasonable offer. It is unfair to put him in that position. Realize there is an inherent conflict of interest. Even asking if an offer has been made on a boat in my opinion is unwise. A sellers situation may have changed since the last offer. Realize again that the most motivated sellers have done everything they can to make their boat look good. They may not be so motivated to accept any offer that comes along, but you can bet a motivated seller will know the market, price his boat right and make the boat look as good as it can. *
Expect to participate in this boat buying experience. Dont expect the broker to find all the boats you should consider. Most all boats are listed on the internet and you should guide your broker with selections youve made.
Lastly, I think its important if you find a good broker to let him know you will stick with him until together, you find a boat. A good broker will spend much time not only searching for a boat, but working with other brokers to find the right boat for you. If you find a good broker and he finds the right boat for you ask him if he would buy the boat himself if he intended to use it as you would. If you trust the broker, his answer may be very enlightening.
