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Old 10-19-2013, 09:04 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by angus99 View Post
Just trying to clarify something--and I'm not bashing brokers. In fact, I'll probably use one when the time comes.

I've often heard that there's no cost to the buyer when either the buyer or seller uses a broker. But if I'm a seller using a broker, I'm going to feel like my bottom-line price needs to be 10% higher to offset the broker's fee. Who ultimately pays for that?

Put another way, as a seller without a broker I might feel like I have 10% more room to negotiate.

Just sayin'.
Seller thinks he'll save 10% selling privately. Buyer thinks hell get the boat for 10% less in a private deal ... most likely you'll split the savings at 5% each.
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Old 10-19-2013, 09:07 AM   #62
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Since I have a boat for sale, and there is a sea trial and survey scheduled for next week, I have been watching this thread with special interest. I bought the boat in 2007, when boat prices were probably at a all time high, and now trying to sell it at a time when they are at a all time low. I really feel for the guys that are trying to sell boats that they paid over a million for and now can only get maybe $500.000 . New guys take note: boats don't appreciate in value, no matter how much new equipment you put on and how many improvements you make.

I knew there was a way for the brokers to find out what the actual price boats were selling for, but never new the name for it. I went to soldboats.com but it looks like you may need to be a broker to get into it. Does anyone know?
Many surveyors also have access to soldboats.com. My wife handles everything to do with money and I think we pay about $600 per year for access.
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Old 10-19-2013, 09:26 AM   #63
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Me having cash in hand has won me some sweet deals,,,, on cars.
It's always "cash" to the seller......whether the buyers get a bank loan or money from their uncle makes no difference to the seller. He gets "cash" either way.
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Old 10-19-2013, 10:15 AM   #64
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Seller thinks he'll save 10% selling privately. Buyer thinks hell get the boat for 10% less in a private deal ... most likely you'll split the savings at 5% each.
You forgot to deduct expenses. If the seller has no broker, he/she pays for advertising. Driving back and forth to the boat to meet prospective buyers is also time and money.

As for the buyer, he too will incur expenses if there is no broker involved. Read the last paragraph in post #52.
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Old 10-19-2013, 10:23 AM   #65
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I think I have learned there is value in discussing price with the sellers agent.
I still reserve the right to bargain, don't like it, kick me off the dock.

Me having cash in hand has won me some sweet deals,,,, on cars.

So multi thousand deals are not made via cash. I get that. A cashiers check makes no differance. Makes sense with the $$ involved.

I have made money purchasing cars for my family based on the impulse of the sellers. Green dollars now versus some CL person later
I think I have learned that a buyers broker would be a beneficial ally...
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Old 10-19-2013, 10:30 AM   #66
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but take into account the listing broker if he is good can wear both hats ie: represent both parties fairly much as a mediator or arbitrator does.
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Old 10-19-2013, 10:45 AM   #67
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Do we negotiate that way with multi thousand dollar boats?
I always have, with much success!

Some owners who have listed with a broker have negotiated with the broker that if they (the owner) find a buyer without the aid of any broker, they can sell without a commission being paid. Keep in mind, however, that this kind of deal results in either you or the seller paying for a title search and all other paper work needed to complete the deal. For example...I have bought several homes over the years without the need for a real estate person. I had to pay for a title search and all applicable paperwork to complete the purchase. A typical hundred thousand dollar home (example) cost me $1,600.00 for all closing costs. (Not the typical $10,000.00 real estate broker fee.) Brokers don't want to hear this but there are thousands of dollars to be saved. You must, however, know what you are doing.

Tip: Use a maritime document service for the paperwork. Brokers do! Call them and ask what's involved to handle a private sale & what is the cost. Here's an example (San Diego)

http://www.donajenkins.com/main.html
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Old 10-19-2013, 10:48 AM   #68
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but take into account the listing broker if he is good can wear both hats ie: represent both parties fairly much as a mediator or arbitrator does.
Thanks for that tidbit...a couple of follow up questions if you don't mind...Is the "good" single broker method or a dedicated buyers broker method preferable? Or is is it an "it depends" scenario? Is there some entity which rates brokers or should I ask around for "word of mouth" recommendations/endorsements?
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Old 10-19-2013, 11:01 AM   #69
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It depends and no there is no such rating service. Ask for references if using your own or PM me
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Old 10-19-2013, 11:44 AM   #70
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but take into account the listing broker if he is good can wear both hats
In fact, he would prefer to....since he will not be splitting the commission....
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Old 10-19-2013, 12:20 PM   #71
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In fact, he would prefer to....since he will not be splitting the commission....
But would'nt he only have a fiduciary responsibility to the seller?
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Old 10-19-2013, 12:37 PM   #72
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But would'nt he only have a fiduciary responsibility to the seller?
Somewhat....and to himself. He wants the deal to go through so he can get a commission. But he also has an ethical responsibility to be fair and equitable. I know, that doesn't always work. My last boat sale was done by my broker(listing) only. I could tell by the framing of his words and sentences what he was getting at....ie "representing the seller" in certain circumstances. It was not so much he was picking and choosing, like Daddyo said, he was just acting as a mediator and I could tell when he was hinting at my need to "move"(on my negotiating position) or when he was trying to get the buyer to move.

Again, he wants the deal to happen and he will try to make it happen. Ultimately, it is up to buyer/seller to agree to terms facilitated by the broker.

Conversely, one time my boat was not on the market and I was approached by a broker that had a buyer that wanted my boat. A buyer's broker with no listing broker....figure that one out!!!!...hahaha. In the end, I told him I would be happy to "split" the commission with him(ie he gets 5%)... Just thought I would mention that because I guess it happens!!!! The deal fell through at survey. But it almost went!!!
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Old 10-19-2013, 08:18 PM   #73
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It seems we have gone full circle here

And I have learned what a broker will do for the two parties.

However I have no doubt a seller will include the fee due the broker in his asking price.

Hence one of my posts, if I find a boat I like on my own, why do I need a broker..etc, flame off.

The bottom line is I want the best boat that I want for the best price.
I would never deny a broker his due if he in fact helped me, did the paper work etc.

My OP was to understand the role of the broker in the process and I think I have learned this.

Once I determine I can stand in the salon and helm of a Trawler I may get serious.

I already know I am $800K shy of owning Timberwolf in Anacortes.
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Old 10-19-2013, 09:22 PM   #74
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Does this mean you found a boat with the headroom you were looking for? If so, what brand boat is it? You're a big bill to fill.
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Old 10-20-2013, 01:18 PM   #75
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Actually not yet

I toured several when I was in Anacortes. A tug and two Trawlers.They were all six five or less in the Salon.

There was a nice boat that was about six seven in the Salon, I forget the brand. It was a twin that I do not want. She was named Law and Order.

I did have a chance to drool over a Northern Marine 62 footer while there.
"Timberwolf" She is on Yachtworld at about $1.2 million.
Did not go aboard but man what a boat.
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Old 10-23-2013, 06:50 PM   #76
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Big Jim. Take a look at a Carver Voyager 450. I think you'll find the headroom adequate as the berths too. Engine room is fairly spacious, easy to get about for a big dude. Prices are under $175k all day long. Out west you might even find them with decent gel-coat.
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Old 10-23-2013, 07:22 PM   #77
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It's always "cash" to the seller......whether the buyers get a bank loan or money from their uncle makes no difference to the seller. He gets "cash" either way.
I understand that. But what if I bargain with the seller and his broker, we agree upon a price after everyone has wasted time, then I mumble, well let me see if I can get a loan or the best one, when I win the lottery will the price remain.

WHEN I find a boat that I fit in and we all agree on the price I will hand them a money order.
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Old 10-24-2013, 12:53 AM   #78
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I toured several when I was in Anacortes. A tug and two Trawlers.They were all six five or less in the Salon.

There was a nice boat that was about six seven in the Salon, I forget the brand. It was a twin that I do not want. She was named Law and Order.

I did have a chance to drool over a Northern Marine 62 footer while there.
"Timberwolf" She is on Yachtworld at about $1.2 million.
Did not go aboard but man what a boat.
Jim,
The Defever 48 is 6'-10" in the salon/galley/helm. Master is a full standard queen.
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