Broker ??'s

[CPseudonym]

No broker , 2 signatures , check and deed , and you are done.

... And an extraordinarily trusting/naive buyer

 

[Daddyo]

If you are dealing with the seller's broker....nothing really. Make no mistake, the seller's broker is there to represent the needs of the seller. Not you.

And on and on..... A good broker is very well worth it!!!

I disagree. The broker is then acting as a duel broker and represents both parties. I just had a boat close and during the survey a minor engine issue was discovered. The buyer wanted to close so he could use the boat that weekend. We all agreed to hold a minor sum to cover the cost of repairs. Well it turned out the repair cost were higher than expected. I represented the buyer in trying to get the seller to come up with more funds post closing. Ultimately the seller unfortunately stayed strictly to his contractual obligations so I paid out of my pocket the extra funds.

 

[mahal]

Lots of green dollar bills are certainly very convincing. In the case of $300K how much would that weigh and would I need a backpack, a wheel barrow, or a letter of credit from my bank?

I don't think a buyer knows where the sellers funds came from. I certainly didn't when I sold my previous boat and I don't think the previous owner of my current boat knew if I borrowed money or got the cash from my cars trunk.

I know in real estate it is an advantage to have cash. Especially when the property you are trying to buy has multiple offers. Sellers tend to favor the cash buyer as the chance of the deal falling through or getting delayed due to bank issues is iliminated.

In real estate transactions cash buyers are rare but not so much with boats. And if a boat buyer is getting a bank loan, chances are he/she is well qualified. People that get into boating are usually ones with disposable income, not so with homes.

 

[Baker]

I disagree. The broker is then acting as a duel broker and represents both parties. I just had a boat close and during the survey a minor engine issue was discovered. The buyer wanted to close so he could use the boat that weekend. We all agreed to hold a minor sum to cover the cost of repairs. Well it turned out the repair cost were higher than expected. I represented the buyer in trying to get the seller to come up with more funds post closing. Ultimately the seller unfortunately stayed strictly to his contractual obligations so I paid out of my pocket the extra funds.

I understand that, Daddyo. And I will stand corrected. I had a feeling in the back of my mind that maybe that wasn't a fair statement. But in the end, I think your actions fall under my premise that "brokers do little things to facilitate the deal when it stalls.....and many times they are to your advantage"!!!! YOU wanted the deal to happen....so YOU made it happen!!!!...and made all parties happy and whole....another great reason to use a broker!!!

The boat I now have started out at fair market value for a boat in decent shape. After the survey, we realized it wasn't in decent shape. I was walking away because there was no way I was going to pay anywhere near where we were because, among many other things, the entire running gear had to be replaced. Not a cheap endeavor as one knows. I looked at my broker and asked what he thought the boat was worth...and he answered with the exact same number that I had in my head(way lowball) and took it to the seller and he accepted.

My example above sounds simple enough. But my broker called around...located the props...rudders....shafts.... He costed all of them and contacted the yard for labor costs. He did all of this so I could get a picture of how much this deal was REALLY going to cost ME. He did this AFTER his commission had basically been cut in half because the price of the boat had fallen that far.

My point here is that my broker MADE THE DEAL WORK!!!!! Just like Daddyo did on his deal. In both scenarios, without the actions of the broker, these deals would have never been completed!!!!

These are examples of why you use a broker!!!

 

[BigJim]

Actually not

My point was when I decide to purchase a boat, I will be in a position to purchase it on the spot without resorting to telling the seller, well OK let me go talk to my bank.

I will hand him a money order.

My question was to ask if there is any value/discount for cash?

You yanken our crank, or your own?

 

[Pau Hana]

My point was when I decide to purchase a boat, I will be in a position to purchase it on the spot without resorting to telling the seller, well OK let me go talk to my bank.

I will hand him a money order.

My question was to ask if there is any value/discount for cash?

Yes and no- depending on the seller. Cash does talk, but if the seller is not desparate, having cash may not be such a motivating factor.

And, based on the line of questioning presented thus far, I'll also recommend enlisting the services of a broker.

 

[Baker]

My point was when I decide to purchase a boat, I will be in a position to purchase it on the spot without resorting to telling the seller, well OK let me go talk to my bank.

I will hand him a money order.

My question was to ask if there is any value/discount for cash?

Maybe....maybe not. It does clear one hurdle. Many times contracts are contingent upon "acceptable financing" for the buyer. That is just one of the things that all parties do not have to worry about. Cash may make the seller a little more motivated....maybe not. I think it just depends upon the deal.

 

[drb1025]

My point was when I decide to purchase a boat, I will be in a position to purchase it on the spot without resorting to telling the seller, well OK let me go talk to my bank. I will hand him a money order. My question was to ask if there is any value/discount for cash?

It's all cash to the seller. I wouldn't care if you finance it or pay cash.

 

[Sunset]

It's all cash to the seller. I wouldn't care if you finance it or pay cash.

Exactly. To a Seller, ALL deals are "cash."

 

[Art]

Big Jim

If a person came to me and said I have cash - I'd say Great!

If they said I want to purchase your boat for cash - I'd say Fine!

If they said spilled the cash in big bills out of a gym bag on a table - I say looks nice - Now count it in front of me.

If at the end of counting the amount did not meet with my desired bottom price for my boat I say add this much more capital (by cash, bank loan, certified check, money transfer to my account... even appropriate weight gold bars might suffice - LOL) and the boat can be yours.

If they said this is as much as I will pay - I'd say... was fun watching you produce stacks of $1,000, but unless you will supply the remaining capital I require - Good Day!!

In other words Jim - Cash is just fine - but so is $1,000,000 balance in my bank account, and, I do not care what vehicle of capital was used for my account to reach that $1M balance.

I make certain to never be or act or feel desperate during either selling or buying of anything. In today’s market, some boat sellers may be... desperate... though! Sight of much cash heaped in front of them just might tip the scales in your favor for low-ball price.

Good Day!! And, Good Luck!!!

 

[Irdiverdan]

10%

Do buyers brokers also generally charge 10%

 

[Pau Hana]

Do buyers brokers also generally charge 10%

No sir- the buyers' broker splits the commission with the selling broker, if I recall correctly.

Shouldn't be a concern to the buyer, as the seller pays the commissions....

 

[Baker]

No sir- the buyers' broker splits the commission with the selling broker, if I recall correctly.

Shouldn't be a concern to the buyer, as the seller pays the commissions....

You recall correctly!!!!....

 

[angus99]

Just trying to clarify something--and I'm not bashing brokers. In fact, I'll probably use one when the time comes.

I've often heard that there's no cost to the buyer when either the buyer or seller uses a broker. But if I'm a seller using a broker, I'm going to feel like my bottom-line price needs to be 10% higher to offset the broker's fee. Who ultimately pays for that?

Put another way, as a seller without a broker I might feel like I have 10% more room to negotiate.

Just sayin'.

 

[Pau Hana]

Just trying to clarify something--and I'm not bashing brokers. In fact, I'll probably use one when the time comes.

I've often heard that there's no cost to the buyer when either the buyer or seller uses a broker. But if I'm a seller using a broker, I'm going to feel like my bottom-line price needs to be 10% higher to offset the broker's fee. Who ultimately pays for that?

Put another way, as a seller without a broker I might feel like I have 10% more room to negotiate.

Just sayin'.

True. At the same time, you, as an individual, may not have access to resources that the broker has:

• Listing your vessel on Yachtworld for maximum exposure
• Soldboats.com
• A network of buyers that brokers share that are looking for boats (the "just in case you hear about...... type of clients)
  

Plus, do you really want to weed thru potential buyers, list on endless Craiglist sites, deal with eBay Nigerian scams, etc., etc?

A good broker will ascertain your needs, how your vessel fits the current market, and then price it to sell at the bottom line price you need to net.

 

[Irdiverdan]

If you are dealing with the seller's broker....nothing really. Make no mistake, the seller's broker is there to represent the needs of the seller. Not you.

Now if you hire a broker to represent you:
He may have an idea of what boats are out there that fit your needs and wants.

He has access to soldboats.com to get an idea of what similar boats are selling for(comps).

He can locate little stuff to get the deal to go through. There are times when the deal stalls. He may be able to get it going again...and in your favor. Without you really having to lift a finger.

There may be stuff that shows up on the survey....he can valuate it and help with a counter offer. ANd even if there is no counter or the seller doesn't accept but you still want the boat, you now know how much it costs to repair it before you buy...

And on and on..... A good broker is very well worth it!!!

No sir- the buyers' broker splits the commission with the selling broker, if I recall correctly.

Shouldn't be a concern to the buyer, as the seller pays the commissions....

Well then, I'm thinking Baker is wise beyond his years......to suggest using a buyer's broker to look out for your best interest and assist you in the ways he mentioned in the above quote... I'm not seeing too much of a down side....Anyone????...

 

[bluebyu]

Irdiverdan,
It may depend on the size of the deal. If you get a buyers broker to help find a 20,000$ trawler, broker may not work too hard.

Also, some brokers will work for 7%.

And, some brokers have a minimum fee, paid by the seller, when you are selling lower cost boats.

 

[Russell Clifton]

Since I have a boat for sale, and there is a sea trial and survey scheduled for next week, I have been watching this thread with special interest. I bought the boat in 2007, when boat prices were probably at a all time high, and now trying to sell it at a time when they are at a all time low. I really feel for the guys that are trying to sell boats that they paid over a million for and now can only get maybe $500.000 . New guys take note: boats don't appreciate in value, no matter how much new equipment you put on and how many improvements you make.

I knew there was a way for the brokers to find out what the actual price boats were selling for, but never new the name for it. I went to soldboats.com but it looks like you may need to be a broker to get into it. Does anyone know?

 

[Baker]

Since I have a boat for sale, and there is a sea trial and survey scheduled for next week, I have been watching this thread with special interest. I bought the boat in 2007, when boat prices were probably at a all time high, and now trying to sell it at a time when they are at a all time low. I really feel for the guys that are trying to sell boats that they paid over a million for and now can only get maybe $500.000 . New guys take note: boats don't appreciate in value, no matter how much new equipment you put on and how many improvements you make. I knew there was a way for the brokers to find out what the actual price boats were selling for, but never new the name for it. I went to soldboats.com but it looks like you may need to be a broker to get into it. Does anyone know?

I'm pretty sure sold boats is a service of Yachtworld...broker only access.

 

[Baker]

Just trying to clarify something--and I'm not bashing brokers. In fact, I'll probably use one when the time comes. I've often heard that there's no cost to the buyer when either the buyer or seller uses a broker. But if I'm a seller using a broker, I'm going to feel like my bottom-line price needs to be 10% higher to offset the broker's fee. Who ultimately pays for that? Put another way, as a seller without a broker I might feel like I have 10% more room to negotiate. Just sayin'.

Do you have experience doing this??? If you can pull it off, go for it. There are highly sought after boats that you might be able to get away doing this. That Willard 40 in the classifieds section is am excellent example. He shouldn't have any problem FSBOing that boat as long as he can get enough exposure.

To answer your somewhat rhetorical question, the market will pay for that 10%!!

 

[Larry M]

I'm pretty sure sold boats is a service of Yachtworld...broker only access.

You're right. Before we made an offer on Hobo, we had a friend who was a broker. She was able to pull all the KK42's that had sold in the last few years via Yacht World. It gave the listing/asking price and what they ended up selling for. It's good stuff but only available if you're a broker who lists with Yacht World from what we were told. This was in 2007 so things may have changed.

 

[CPseudonym]

Put another way, as a seller without a broker I might feel like I have 10% more room to negotiate. Just sayin'.

If that where only true there'd be many more sold FSBO's out there. Have a guy on our local Craigslist that has had a stagnant price on his boat he lowered briefly only to raise it again by $50,000. I bought my boat in January and his ad was running for quite some time before that. Just checked before this post and it's still there.

Broker in my marina moves inventory on a fairly regular and consistent basis. Friendly guy that everyone I've talked to is quite happy doing business with, buyers and sellers.

The problem for both buyers and sellers going FSBO is simple. The seller has only 1 boat to offer conversely the time the buyer spends feeling him out and sizing up his boat is completely wasted if a deal doesn't happen. Economy of scale is what a buyer and seller gets with a broker.

I purchased private party in January. After expenses I divided 10% of my purchase price by the rough amount of hours I spent chasing boats and figure that time was worth less than $8/hour. Not sure about anyone else here but my time is worth quite a bit more than that so I'll only be dealing with brokers going forward.

 

[BruceK]

No sir- the buyers' broker splits the commission with the selling broker, if I recall correctly.

Shouldn't be a concern to the buyer, as the seller pays the commissions....

The buyers broker gets paid by the seller via the sellers broker splitting the commission, if and only if a deal goes through.
How`s that not a concern for a buyer? Better the buyer retains and pays his own broker.

 

[angus99]

Do you have experience doing this??? If you can pull it off, go for it. There are highly sought after boats that you might be able to get away doing this. That Willard 40 in the classifieds section is am excellent example. He shouldn't have any problem FSBOing that boat as long as he can get enough exposure.

To answer your somewhat rhetorical question, the market will pay for that 10%!!

Lots of experience buying and selling houses, cars, tractors and smaller vessels FSBO. None buying larger boats . . . and not sure I want to roll the dice buying my first trawler. A couple of the models I'm interested in that are/were FSBO seemed way out of line with the market. I would expect a seller's broker would also help the seller get real.

I think you may have answered my rhetorical question with a rhetorical reply . What does "the market will pay for that 10%" mean?

 

[angus99]

I purchased private party in January. After expenses I divided 10% of my purchase price by the rough amount of hours I spent chasing boats and figure that time was worth less than $8/hour. Not sure about anyone else here but my time is worth quite a bit more than that so I'll only be dealing with brokers going forward.

I can see where saving time would be a definite value add. Probably why I'll likely use a buyer's broker when we start getting serious. I can also see where a person that's zeroed in on a model he/she wants and has a lot of patience and shopping/negotiating skills could put a deal together.

 

[Irdiverdan]

Irdiverdan,
It may depend on the size of the deal. If you get a buyers broker to help find a 20,000$ trawler, broker may not work too hard.

Also, some brokers will work for 7%.

And, some brokers have a minimum fee, paid by the seller, when you are selling lower cost boats.

Seems reasonable...but who said anything about a $20,000 trawler...
Even though I did see another post from a fellow from New York who is looking for a 20K trawler...

 

[BigJim]

Since this is my post

I think I have learned there is value in discussing price with the sellers agent.
I still reserve the right to bargain, don't like it, kick me off the dock.

Me having cash in hand has won me some sweet deals,,,, on cars.

So multi thousand deals are not made via cash. I get that. A cashiers check makes no differance. Makes sense with the $$ involved.

I have made money purchasing cars for my family based on the impulse of the sellers. Green dollars now versus some CL person later

Seems reasonable...but who said anything about a $20,000 trawler...
Even though I did see another post from a fellow from New York who is looking for a 20K trawler...

 

[Baker]

Jim....go buy you a boat!!!!

 

[Art]

I think I have learned there is value in discussing price with the sellers agent.
I still reserve the right to bargain, don't like it, kick me off the dock.

Me having cash in hand has won me some sweet deals,,,, on cars.

So multi thousand deals are not made via cash. I get that. A cashiers check makes no differance. Makes sense with the $$ involved.

I have made money purchasing cars for my family based on the impulse of the sellers. Green dollars now versus some CL person later

Hi Jim

Taint nutten wrong wit jus sum goo ol' horse traden! Errrr... in this case... boat cost dickeren twixt buyers und sellers.

Cash is fine – so is any method of attainable/manageable capital transfers... although, I must admit, cash trades can keep value transfers on the down-low; which depending on circumstances (especially in the lower boat-price levels) might be advantageous for parties concerned!

Just please realize: On Trawler Forum you are chatting with some of the best in world (various nations’ contributors) on deciding when to hold em and when to fold em regarding all sorts of financial marine dealings. There is a bunch of honest and deep boating/marine knowledge here just waiting to be tapped from umpteen contributors (TF Members) who are willing to offer advice and provide assistance for any number of boating/marine issues. The lure of visual-cash is not too awful exciting to most who’ve been doing boat trading/dickering for decades. Some TF Members (experienced, licensed boat brokers) appear to be pronounced experts in all manners of boat value deliberations, boat cost parameters, legal-paper needs, documentations, and capital transfers. Many other TF members are experts in other marine fields... basically TF covers the marine gambit. Got a question... on nearly any marine doings... ask away, answers will usually be readily forthcoming. As with all life’s instances... I advise to take everything with grain of salt and weed out the wheat from the chaff, to eventually ascertain the best course of action you may decide to take for any circumstance.

Good Luck...

I hope you enjoy utilizing and contributing to TF’s “Boat-World”... and... Happy Boating Daze!!

Art

 

[ranger58sb]

Things must be done differently in your area. In Canada and every deal I've been involved with south of the border it was the brokers job to negotiate the price with the buyer, just like a real estate agent is the one who does the negotiation not the owner..

I think I'd describe this slightly differently. Yes, the broker faces the potential buyer and they yak about prices... but then the broker has to take the latest offered price back to the seller (owner), who makes the final decision. Good? Sold. Not good? Back to the potential buyer for more discussion. Repeat ad infinitum.

-Chris