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06-08-2019, 09:28 AM
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#1
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Senior Member
City: New Orleans
Vessel Name: Stella
Vessel Model: Seaton 56
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 272
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Holding Tank Lock Out
Our holding tanks have both overboard discharge and deck fittings for vacuum service. The overboard discharge systems have a macerator pump and a local switch with a keyed switch in series. The keyed switch locks out the pump so no discharge is possible without a key.
As we crossed yesterday from Bimini to Miami we prepared for U.S. regs. As the discharge through hulls are difficult to access at sea, I just locked the pump switches and stored the keys. I see this as comparable to a locked valve.
Any thoughts as to how LE might react to this method?
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06-08-2019, 09:33 AM
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#2
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Guru
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 28,146
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A keyed switch to a macerator where the key can be secured is supposed to be good enough....most likely 9 out of 10 times the LEO will agree...but you can't bet on no issues no matter how well you explain or they supposedly understand the intent of the law which states the recommended ways are not all inclusive.
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06-08-2019, 09:50 AM
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#3
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Guru
City: Nanaimo
Vessel Name: former owner of "Pilitak"
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 37
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,703
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I agree with psneeld, that should meet the "spirit" of the law and be considered adequate as you cannot discharge without "intent" (unlocking the pump) and the same would apply if you lock the thru hull handle in the closed position.
Common sense says that any LEO should agree (but we all know how common that is)
Don't forget to post the required signage (waste management plan) regarding garbage and overboard discharge somewhere on board.
__________________
Tom
Nanaimo, BC
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06-08-2019, 09:52 AM
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#4
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Guru
City: Jacksonville
Vessel Name: SONAS
Vessel Model: Grand Alaskan 53
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 7,235
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Our macerator breaker has a cover over it that has to be pushed aside to turn on the breaker. When we got the boat the through hull was closed but there was nothing securing it. Now we put a cable tie on that needs to be cut to open it.
However I have always thought this was a strange reg. If the idea is to stop someone from accidentally operating the macerator through an open through hull, then simply having the through hull closed would do that - it is hard to "accidentally" open a through hull.
If the idea to to stop boaters from purposefully pumping into the water, they can simply cut the cable tie, get the key and turn on the switch, reattach the handle, pump, and immediately put everything back to where they were. It takes seconds.
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06-08-2019, 10:26 AM
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#5
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Guru
City: AR
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,515
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If the idea to to stop boaters from purposefully pumping into the water, they can simply cut the cable tie, get the key and turn on the switch, reattach the handle, pump, and immediately put everything back to where they were. It takes seconds.
Only proving once again that no system is foolproof because fools are more creative at defeating it than in working with it.
--Peggie
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06-08-2019, 10:26 AM
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#6
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Guru
City: Nanaimo
Vessel Name: former owner of "Pilitak"
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 37
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,703
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I agree menzies....... always seemed strange to me, but I just try to follow the rules, which isn't always easy.
__________________
Tom
Nanaimo, BC
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06-08-2019, 10:32 AM
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#7
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Senior Member
City: Bellingham, WA
Vessel Name: Excellent Adventure
Vessel Model: 1995 Jefferson Ker Shine 45
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 395
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No one "accidentally" pumps out their holding tank. The idea is to make it a purposeful act so that when you get caught there is no argument about the ticket you get. Of course those who purposely pump out will still bitch and argue about the ticket.
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06-08-2019, 10:48 AM
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#8
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Guru
City: Reno, Nevada
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,177
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Many (US) National Park Service waters require discharge hoses to be capped prior to the thru hull.
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06-08-2019, 11:22 AM
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#9
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Guru
City: Duvall, Wa. USA
Vessel Name: Beach Music II
Vessel Model: 2003 Mainship 430 Trawler
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,040
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The Washington State Dept of Ecology says you can lock the door to the space enclosing the toilets with a padlock or door handle key lock to prevent discharges. ??????
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06-08-2019, 11:34 AM
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#10
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Guru
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in the Great Lakes
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,834
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The one that has worked for me so far was removing the seacock handle. So far, no complaints from USCG, DNR from FL and MD. Interestingly, none have bothered to check if it was seacock was in the open or closed position.
Ted
__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
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06-08-2019, 11:53 AM
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#11
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Guru
City: Jacksonville
Vessel Name: SONAS
Vessel Model: Grand Alaskan 53
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 7,235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadMistress
If the idea to to stop boaters from purposefully pumping into the water, they can simply cut the cable tie, get the key and turn on the switch, reattach the handle, pump, and immediately put everything back to where they were. It takes seconds.
Only proving once again that no system is foolproof because fools are more creative at defeating it than in working with it.
--Peggie
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You really think you need to be creative to "defeat" a cable tie, a removed handle, or a removed key?
The point was - the reg does nothing to prevent discharge. Either people will do it and only get cited because they are caught in the actual discharge, or people will not do it. The reg does not change that one iota.
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06-08-2019, 11:55 AM
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#12
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Guru
City: Jacksonville
Vessel Name: SONAS
Vessel Model: Grand Alaskan 53
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 7,235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by porman
The Washington State Dept of Ecology says you can lock the door to the space enclosing the toilets with a padlock or door handle key lock to prevent discharges. ??????
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So their position is, if you half fill your holding tank and then lock the door to the head, you can't discharge. Smart. Clearly written by a boater!
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06-08-2019, 04:26 PM
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#13
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Guru
City: Gig Harbor
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 9,046
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We have a valve in the hose that connects the holding tank to the macerator pump. It is closed, and the handle is removed. There is a through hull (above waterline) that is located under the head sink. That handle is in place but frankly it is hard to find even if you know what you are looking for. On the rare times I do pump overboard, I forget about that valve 1/2 the time. Finally, I have the switch to the macerator pump zip-tied closed.
Since I pump overboard very rarely (BC is the only place it is legal under certain conditions so the last time was almost two years ago) it isn’t too inconvenient. I just have to remember to open those two valves, then cut the zip-tie then remember to close the two valves, remove one of the handles, and replace the zip-tie before I re-enter US waters.
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06-08-2019, 07:09 PM
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#14
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Guru
City: Jacksonville
Vessel Name: SONAS
Vessel Model: Grand Alaskan 53
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 7,235
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Dave, that is the same cover I have on my switch. I never thought of having a cable tie on that. Great idea!
I would also suggest that that would negate having to put a tie on the through hull - or even close the through hull. Because if you are cutting that breaker tie, you are also throwing the through hull lever!
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06-08-2019, 09:08 PM
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#15
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Guru
City: Gulf coast
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 2,271
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Hey Menzies, Hey Dave,
I love that lockout. Who makes it?
Cheers!
-Greg
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06-08-2019, 09:27 PM
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#16
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Guru
City: Jacksonville
Vessel Name: SONAS
Vessel Model: Grand Alaskan 53
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 7,235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gkesden
Hey Menzies, Hey Dave,
I love that lockout. Who makes it?
Cheers!
-Greg
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Installed already when I got the boat. Tried to do a Google for you, but no good.
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06-08-2019, 10:05 PM
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#17
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Guru
City: Sidney BC Canada
Vessel Name: RochePoint
Vessel Model: 1985 Cheer Men PT38 Sedan
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,744
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It is from Blue Seas click this link.....
I have two on our boat, one for the holding tank and one for the fridge. Our last dog had a nasty habit of turning the fridge off with his tail......
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06-08-2019, 10:08 PM
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#18
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Guru
City: Gulf coast
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 2,271
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Hi Menzies: Thanks so very much for looking. I had the same luck!
Hi Rochepoint: Wow! Thank you! If that were a snake, it have bit me. I would never have thought of searching for a "toggle guard". Tried lock out, cover, flip cover, and protector. Thank you again!
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06-09-2019, 10:27 AM
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#19
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Guru
City: Gig Harbor
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 9,046
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gkesden
Hey Menzies, Hey Dave,
I love that lockout. Who makes it?
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Rocherpoint beat me to the link. I have a bunch of those covers on my boat. Most from the PO, but I recently added a few. I have them on anything that I want left on or definitely left off. Refrigerator is one, main house bank is another, solar panel etc....
To add the zip-tie you just have to drill through the switch cover from the side. I used a 1/8” drill which is big enough to handle the very small ties.
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06-09-2019, 10:36 AM
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#20
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Senior Member
City: Florida
Vessel Model: 420AC Sea Ray
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 354
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I removed the switch cover portion of the switch on the panel for my macerator. 5 USCG inspections later, it's still good.
To pump, I simply put the cover back on and turn on the switch.
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