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Old 11-01-2014, 08:41 PM   #1
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Bodega Bay Boat Capsize

32' crab boat just capsized off Bodega Bay. Five on board one survivor no life jackets were worn.
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Old 11-01-2014, 09:00 PM   #2
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Just had read this on the news, no details. Weather related? or negligence?
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Old 11-01-2014, 09:03 PM   #3
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Life jackets would have helped no doubt.

4 dead, 1 rescued when boat capsizes at | The Press Democrat
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Old 11-01-2014, 09:05 PM   #4
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The survivor made it to a small island. The deceased were recovered from the water. No info on cause of capsize.

Entrance to Tomales Bay, south of Bodega, frequently has dangerous waves at its entrance which have caused many deaths.
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Old 11-01-2014, 10:06 PM   #5
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Hits pretty close to home. I was just talking to Meg about the crab opener and that I was considering going out with friends. Of course, the topic of it being cheaper to buy it in the store came up...but it's something I enjoy. A 32 footer is bigger than I usually fish from.
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Old 11-01-2014, 10:27 PM   #6
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Didn't happen at Tomales, it was right off Bodega Rock. I noticed there is a small craft warning there right now, not sure what conditions were when this happened. Typically it is unsafe to cut between Bodega Rock and the Head if seas are rough and you have to go around to the south then in.

The CG station is right there, not more than 10 minutes to the rock.
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Old 11-01-2014, 11:54 PM   #7
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Sad. Was sitting today with the glasses watching some fish boats come into the dock. Not one hand in a life jacket. And that is after crossing the bar here at Astoria. Now, it was a nice day today. But bad habits are easy to start. For me anyway.
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Old 11-02-2014, 12:28 AM   #8
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Funny, as one ages the thoughts of safety become more prevalent or so it seems. Been on and around the water all of my life. Most likely given a moment, could count the times in my years where I purposely wore a life jacket. Never though about the danger and most likely took the shock view of "How long would one last anyway" thinking. Actually recall laughing at all the rigmarole that those with safety in mind when to. I'd guess up to my current acquisition, a boat with narrow side decks and no side doors the thought of safety to that degree became apparent.
A few years back when the new inflatable narrow tubed vest first showed up on visiting yachts did I take note. Still I chuckled as watching the "Visitors" particularly the men, walking about with these funny little thing ma jiggers around their necks.
Now that the age factor has hit and I realize I am human and subject to doing stupid or having unfortunate chance, that personal safty is a subject.
Yes, I have purchased these "Funny Little Vest" for myself, wife, and visiting guest. In addition I have a standing order that anybody going beyond the aft cockpit will have one of these or a certified float coat on and zipped.
Good feeling.
New habits for an old "Five and Dimer".

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Old 11-02-2014, 01:46 AM   #9
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Don't know if they've since changed the requirements, but when we were boarded by the USCG some years back we were told that unless one is actually wearing an auto-inflate PFD like a Mustang vest, it does not meet the PFD requirement for the vessel. In other words, just having them on board is not good enough.

As opposed to Type I and II PFDs which simply have to be on board in a readily accessible place to meet the PFD rerquirements.

So if one has a set of auto-inflate vests on board and is counting on them alone to meet the PFD requirement for their vessel, if they are not being actively worn they do not meet the requirement in the USCG's eyes and are the same as having no PFDs on board at all.

If the regulations are no longer this way, then please correct me.

(I know the USCG is exploring the notion of changing all the PFD designations and requirements.)
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Old 11-02-2014, 05:35 AM   #10
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That's mostly true. Most inflatable life jackets are Type III only when being worn, and are otherwise considered to be non-existant. Exactly as Marin said. The only caveat I'm aware of is that a few models are full Type II without the "must be worn" restriction. I specifically selected the model Mustang vests that we have based on this so they would count all the time, no matter what. I think the difference is that the full Type II vests have both manual and hydrostatic releases, but am not 100% sure. All this is on the label on every vest, and typically in the fine print of on-line descriptions. For some reason that I don't understand, inflatables with a D-ring for a life line are always the "must be worn" type, and never full Type II (or Type III for that matter).
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Old 11-02-2014, 06:28 AM   #11
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Our Mustangs are both auto and manual inflate, but the USCG boarding party said they had to be worn to count. My wife had forgotten to put hers back on when she went out to open the boarding gate for the CG guys, which is what prompted them to give us the warning. (We have a bunch of Type IIs on the boat, so we were still in compliance.)

But I just re-read your post and realized that ours have the life line D-ring on them. So that's perhaps what prompted the warning.
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Old 11-02-2014, 07:19 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marin View Post
Our Mustangs are both auto and manual inflate, but the USCG boarding party said they had to be worn to count. My wife had forgotten to put hers back on when she went out to open the boarding gate for the CG guys, which is what prompted them to give us the warning. (We have a bunch of Type IIs on the boat, so we were still in compliance.)

But I just re-read your post and realized that ours have the life line D-ring on them. So that's perhaps what prompted the warning.
Check out what the label says on them. It will tell you clearly which they are. Mine say they are Type II with no qualifications or conditions. The others, which I think are considered Type V, will say they are Type II or III only when worn.

It's a bit confusing, unfortunately, and I think a lot of people, including some CG crew, just use the simplified rule that inflatables only count when worn.
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Old 11-02-2014, 07:35 AM   #13
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My inflatables say type V because of the "D" rings but may be "substituted as type II if used in accordance with the owner's manual which really doesn't say anything...

I'm guessing because of the "D" rings the USCG is saying if clipped to the boat and the boat sinks...it's not a type II...well no shi**...at that point it's worse than a cinder block if the boat sinks. And a few comments how a harness can contribute to injury if not properly worn...so for boat crew instructed on their use/donning I would say it's a type II...for occasional passengers a type V.

Probably a tough argument with a 21 year old wearing a pistol and bulletproof vest so I keep a couple cheapos aboard just to keep everyone smiling.

My manual only talks about "only if worn" only in the commercial vessel section...so who knows what urban myths are still out on the water with boaters and boarding officers alike.
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Old 11-02-2014, 08:03 AM   #14
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If that's the case

Quote:
Originally Posted by caltexflanc View Post
Didn't happen at Tomales, it was right off Bodega Rock. I noticed there is a small craft warning there right now, not sure what conditions were when this happened. Typically it is unsafe to cut between Bodega Rock and the Head if seas are rough and you have to go around to the south then in.

The CG station is right there, not more than 10 minutes to the rock.
That rock has claimed quite a few lives, Small craft warnings are the norm in this area. The water temperature here is probably around 55 deg, cold enough to render you helpless fairly quickly. That's why a life jacket is so important. Most people won't survive more that an hour in the water up here.
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Old 11-02-2014, 08:57 AM   #15
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Here are a couple of examples from Mustang vests:

This one is Type II for recreational use, and a "Must be worn" for commercial of certain criteria. This one had no D ring:

"*Please Note: This product is a USCG Type ll and USCG Type V Commercial with Type ll performance when worn on uninspected commercial vessels less than 40 ft. in length and not carrying passengers for hire."

Here's the equivalent model with a D ring. Note that it's "must be worn" without exception:

"USCG - UL1180 - Inflatable PFDs 160.076 - Type V with Type II Performance"

And another one that is Type III for recreational and "must be worn" for commercial.

USCG - UL1180 - Inflatable PFDs 160.076 - Type V (Commercial Use); Type III (Recreational Use)

And another with similar restrictions:

USCG - UL1180 - Inflatable PFDs 160.076 - Type V (Commercial Use); Type III (Recreational Use)

It's actually looking like these are more and more approved like regular vests for recreational use, and worth knowing exactly what you have in case of inspection. I think if you show the label to the officer, they would accept an approved vest.

Anyway, sorry for the side track....
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Old 11-02-2014, 11:16 AM   #16
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As to life jackets, in my opinion a comfortable jacket no matter the designation that is WORN is much better than an approved one in a locker.
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Old 11-02-2014, 02:36 PM   #17
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If ya have any questions on what is USCG approved for life vests or any other requirements, ask for a full USCG inspection on you boat in your slip. I did this with a 17 foot run a bout in my driveway years ago. My friends said I was crazy and that they would never let the coast guard look at there boat. My response was: "better to be inspected in my driveway then on the water" The inspection last two hours, all issues and violations were noted and the best of all, no fines for violations. I was able to correct or fix issue before I hit the water. When I find my boat, I will do the same.
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Old 11-02-2014, 03:57 PM   #18
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I'm not sure what many USCG barding officers or USCGAux guys would think if I argued that my inflatable was OK on the bunk and not worn.

It's clear to me but until this morning I always thought it was one of those "had to be worn to count models".

Even in the thick of instructing boating safety and being shoulder to shoulder with the USCG and marine Police...I think I was incorrect and I'll bet many of them think exactly the way I used to.

But after a couple hours of research, I think the last few years of transition in the inflatable PFD world...it's not clear to many, both recreational or official.

I'd be careful of believing just any USCG safety inspection (which most of the time are USCGAux members)
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Old 11-02-2014, 04:36 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
I'm not sure what many USCG barding officers or USCGAux guys would think if I argued that my inflatable was OK on the bunk and not worn.

It's clear to me but until this morning I always thought it was one of those "had to be worn to count models".

Even in the thick of instructing boating safety and being shoulder to shoulder with the USCG and marine Police...I think I was incorrect and I'll bet many of them think exactly the way I used to.

But after a couple hours of research, I think the last few years of transition in the inflatable PFD world...it's not clear to many, both recreational or official.

I'd be careful of believing just any USCG safety inspection (which most of the time are USCGAux members)
i think you are exactly right. When the inflatables first came out all were the "must be worn" type. But over the years, many models have been certified as regular vests. Some only for recreational use, but otherwise just like a foam vest. This has definitely been changing over the past few years. When I bought mine about 3-4 years ago it was the first time I had seen any model that was straight-out Type II rates with no "must be worn" restriction. Looking at Mustang's web site today, I see a whole bunch of models that are normal Type II or Type II rated, so it's spreading.

With all respect to the USCG, I would not be at all surprised for rank and file members to be unaware of these changes and to still be operating under the assumption that all inflatables must be worn to count. Just show them the USCG Certification label on the vest to confirm that it's unrestricted Type II or Type III, assuming it is.
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Old 11-02-2014, 04:45 PM   #20
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I am waiting for the next new controversial thread..

"Do you wear a PFD at all times or not?"




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