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Old 01-11-2014, 02:26 PM   #1
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Boaters left in limbo in Mexico after raid by tax officials

U.S., Canadian boaters left in limbo in Mexico after raid by tax officials





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Old 01-11-2014, 03:03 PM   #2
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I refuse to go to Mexico even for a beach vacation. It is just to corrupt at all levels. What a mess.
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Old 01-11-2014, 03:15 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by LaBomba View Post
I refuse to go to Mexico even for a beach vacation. It is just to corrupt at all levels. What a mess.
kinda like the US these days....

but I do feel safer here for some silly reason....

though bribes down there are WAY less expensive than lawyers here...
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Old 01-11-2014, 03:17 PM   #4
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Those evil boaters buy fuel and food, drinks, souvenirs and party supplies, while paying dock fees, employing mechanics and divers.. so let's harass them and deter more tourism if we can.

They should have those permits available at the marinas and have you buy one on arrival. Not on some website somewhere.
If they wanted to collect on back fees, they should put a $30 penalty on top of the normal fee and be happy with that.
No, they will go all thuggish and point rifles at tourists while seizing their boats.
Hey Mexico-- here's your sign. Enjoy your desolate and abandoned tourist industry.
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Old 01-11-2014, 03:24 PM   #5
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seizing boats....OMG...the IRS or other US agencies never do that!!!!

NOT!!!!

maybe not 300+ something in one swoop...but I bet our annual numbers make that number tiny....

"I have personally seized over 300 businesses or homes as a former Revenue Officer. It is not something I wanted to do but in most cases the taxpayer gave you no choice."

Can IRS seize my business, vehicle, home, pension or IRA? YES THEY CAN!!! | Fresh Start Tax

and that's a US agency seizing US property.....
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Old 01-11-2014, 03:33 PM   #6
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We spent over 4.5 years in Mexico on 2 different boats last leaving in 2011. Of all the countries we have been to, Mexico is one of our favorites for cruising. Between the culture, the people and the food it's hard to beat. Corruption? Sure it's there but so is it here in the US. We were never been asked for mordita by the way. Safe? Depends on where you go? There aren't to many cities in the US I would into at 3 am Sunday morning. Because of some governmental sub-agency, it's to bad Mexico is in the lime light for something this stupid. I'm done.
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Old 01-11-2014, 04:06 PM   #7
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We spent over 4.5 years in Mexico on 2 different boats last leaving in 2011. Of all the countries we have been to, Mexico is one of our favorites for cruising. Between the culture, the people and the food it's hard to beat. Corruption? Sure it's there but so is it here in the US. We were never been asked for mordita by the way. Safe? Depends on where you go? There aren't to many cities in the US I would into at 3 am Sunday morning. Because of some governmental sub-agency, it's to bad Mexico is in the lime light for something this stupid. I'm done.
Larry,
Great post!.. as always everybody can and will put their own spin on each situation.

I have been to Mexico countless times and never had a issue.. definitely I have NEVER been treated as bad as I have by the U.S. Customs!

I know some people have been wrongly accused by this sting ( Richard Spindler of Latitude 38 for one ) BUT... there are also a LOT of ex pats living down there that do their best to do as little as possible and really take advantage of Mexico.. so this doesn't surprise me too much

HOLLYWOOD
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Old 01-11-2014, 07:30 PM   #8
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My understanding is Mexico does not make it difficult to comply with the law. The internet thing mentioned above was put in place to make compliance easier for everyone. Lot's of folks over at Cruiser Forum mention purchasing them at home prior to leaving thus making entry and compliance that much more convenient.

Everything I've read about this whole sting issue is that although a couple of innocent victims did get caught up, for the most part those involved where legitimate busts. Even the legitimate bust ones where just told to get their paperwork in order by a deadline to avoid action. It also sounds like some of the port captains where just as confused as those whose boats where detained.

I wouldn't run down there looking for the nearest boat auction over this.
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Old 01-11-2014, 08:25 PM   #9
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Spending Time in Mexico

Back in 2006 we spent six months driving back and forth from San Diego to Ensenada, Mexico (75 miles each way) to check on our boat which we kept at two different marina's. We took the boat at least twice a month fishing and whale watching. Those six months represented some the best times we ever had boating with the trawlers. While the bad press with the drug dealers hurt the country over the past few years I can advise many southern California new boat owners still took their boats south for tax purposes and I never heard of anyone being harassed during that period. Regarding the tax issue, my limited research shows it is in part an error by the Mexican government on how they performed the inspections and are trying to correct things. As others posted I'm sure if we didn't pay our taxes on our boats the US Government wouldn't ask twice before seizing the boat.

For what it is worth we plan to take N3522 La Tempestad south this summer to Ensenada, Mexico to enjoy the culture, great people, food and coastline cruising. Will we double check the paperwork requirements - sure bet.

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Old 01-11-2014, 09:12 PM   #10
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Although we can see Mexico from our slip we will never go there again. Some 38 years ago, while in Mexico. we got a taste of "La Mordita," the little death. That is what they call bribery there, bribery that is carried out by policemen, the military, and government officials. It looks like nothing has changed.
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Old 01-11-2014, 09:16 PM   #11
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Fom Bob Bitchin

Quelling the rumors...... This just in to Cruising Outpost!

Latest News: Boats Seized in Mexico for Not Having Import Permits Being Released!

Most boats already released in Mexico!
Yesterday all boats from marina Acapulco and Opequimar Vallarya were released. News is next week they will release the rest .

Many boats have not been "importing" their boats into Mexico and paying the $70 fee. So tax agents entered several marinas catering to foreign boats recently and slapped seizure orders on more than 300, The Associated Press reported.
The reason? The boats' owners, mostly American and Canadian retirees who cruise the Pacific and Caribbean coasts, not having a US$70 permit to tie up in Mexico.
U.S. officials are in contact with their Mexican counterparts to discuss the issue, AP said, adding that Canadian Foreign Affairs officials know of three Canadian boats that were seized in the November raids.
The operation is part of the Mexican government's new effort to improve the country's abysmal tax-collection rate, one of the worst among the world's large economies, AP said.
All boaters should have what's called a Temporary Import Permit.The document, which can be obtained online, proves the boats are owned by the permit-holder and affirms the owners will not leave or sell them in Mexico.
Officials inspected more than 1,600 boats at eight marinas and issued seizure orders against 338 that supposedly lacked the permit.
Reports from Mexican authorities have contacted us and told us many boats have already been released, and the rest should be released on Monday.
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Old 01-11-2014, 09:37 PM   #12
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Greetings,
Hmmm.....everyone is quick to judge and condemn the Mexican authorities but when it comes out that those vessels seized neglected to pay the proper fees-nothing. Are they still lawless crooks and thieves? Some listees think not. Can hardly wait for the next "bad guy" report....
Reminds me a bit of the Bahamian fee increase a few years back. How dare the Bahamian government charge for the rape of their waters! I've personally seen a center console boat loaded with conch (hard to estimate but could easily have been 2000+) over in Bimini for the weekend and heading back to the good old US of A to sell the "catch". Saw another sport fish over for a week-ends fishing with over 100 Mahi. They gave most away and dumped the rest. The $300 fee hopefully has cut down on that type of thing.
I suspect there will be fewer $70 no-pays in Mexico in the next little while.
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Old 01-12-2014, 07:17 AM   #13
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I used to enjoy going to Mexico with my family. Anymore I'm just not interested. The "corruption" wasn't such a large problem for me. Unlike the U.S., at least there as in other parts of the Caribbean, it's pretty much up front. Just figure out who and what to pay and be done with it.

The crime problem and their inability to control it, is what's keeps me from taking my family back. It's the same thing that keeps me from taking my family certain places in the U.S. While I will go alone on business, I won't risk the families safety. And with their arse backward stance on weapons and self defense (again, similar to some parts of our own country), it's not likely I'm going to reconsider visiting any time soon. Too many other places less problematic (IMHO) to visit.

While it certainly could have been avoided by some common sense on both sides, the "raid" sounds more like some politico got their panties in a wad, and decided to make an "example" of these "tax avoiding scofflaws." Unfortunately, it also sounds like they had their heads up their posteriors in the planning stage, and failed to do their homework before launching such a ridiculous effort. Of course, we (the U.S.) would never do such a thing, right?.

"Guns" are part of the standard issue for most LEO's and Military organizations, so the fact that they were "armed" doesn't concern me.
Now, if they hit the place like a Meth Lab, that would be a different story.

Did anyone go to jail over this?
If not, then it's a minor inconvenience in a still 3rd world part of our big round ball. Just another shitty day in paradise I guess?

Frankly, I'm more concerned by the increase in federal raids here in the good old U.S. of A., conducted by the knuckle draggers form various (and at times relatively obscure) agencies, as well as our own out of control IRS!

I guess the bottom line is, if you're going to go, pay the tax, grease the palms of Who The F*** ever, and enjoy another cerveza!

OD
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Old 01-12-2014, 08:13 AM   #14
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The only part of this of which I was unhappy was the implication that some boats that had paid the tax were impounded because the owners were not on board to show the receipt.

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Old 01-12-2014, 08:25 AM   #15
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What many seem to have missed is that unlike in this country, the "violators" were not arrested, were not charged with a crime, and their property was not chained to the dock or impounded. They were not prevented from using their boats.

The process was an administrative one, pay the fee or you will lose your property.

Don't let the fanatics over in the Dark Side color the discussion with their self righteous hatred and fear.
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Old 01-12-2014, 09:25 AM   #16
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For a moment I thought the thread was about Upper California and the steep and confiscatatory property taxing authorities. I would never keep my boat in CA where crime is rampant and politicians all too often behave like/are thieves.

There is a sales and property tax avoidance dance that many play moving their vessels between upper and lower CA. It happens throughout the world, I do the same but try to stay a legal step ahead.
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Old 01-12-2014, 10:52 AM   #17
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...There is a sales and property tax avoidance dance that many play moving their vessels between upper and lower CA. It happens throughout the world, I do the same but try to stay a legal step ahead.
Yep.
Not on a local or state, but on a federal level, it's your right to minimize your tax burden lawfully (per my former IRS agent, now CPA), but a crime to avoid.

Screw around the dark side, and the fines and penalties can get ugly quick!!

I use every loophole and provision given to me by the "team" at the Infernal Revenue Service, to minimize my taxes. As he says, beat them at their own game
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Old 01-12-2014, 11:02 AM   #18
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What many seem to have missed is that unlike in this country, the "violators" were not arrested, were not charged with a crime, and their property was not chained to the dock or impounded. They were not prevented from using their boats.

The process was an administrative one, pay the fee or you will lose your property.

Don't let the fanatics over in the Dark Side color the discussion with their self righteous hatred and fear.
Thanks RickB
That answers my previous question and clarifies matters greatly.

Short of having a weapon pointed in my face or going to jail, the rest of this horse crap is just that...horse crap! It's administrative, paperwork!
Go take care of the paperwork, pay the ransom as my attorney calls this kind of crap, and move on. It's that simple.

While I'm not an advocate for frivolous lawsuits, sometimes the government needs to be slapped around a little to "help" them realize that "we the people" are not going to allow ineptitude of this magnitude to exist unchecked. And when it does happen, it will cost them...money, and on occasion jobs

There should be some sort of compensation, be it monetarily, constructively (maybe a waiver of the "tax" for the next few visits?), or at a minimum, a letter of apology from someone North of a clerk, for the error, to the boat owners and their guests.

Unfortunately, considering where this occurred, I doubt ANY of the boat owners who were inconvenienced, had their vessels "IMPROPERLY" seized, or were cost money due to the piss poor handling by the Mexican officials who failed to note that the tax had been paid (per the article), will ever be able to get restitution or satisfaction from the Mexican government.

Just sayin'...

OD
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Old 01-12-2014, 11:56 AM   #19
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Just a clarification. The impoundments were not a tax issue but the compliance with Temporary Import Permits (TIP). The TIP is good for 10 years for a boat and allows unlimited entry's as long as you are in compliance with customs and immigrations. We got our last one in 2008 and paid $49.50US. There aren't to many places in the world that are that generous.
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Old 01-12-2014, 04:46 PM   #20
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Nothing here that looks difficult to comply with.

http://www.mexonline.com/boatmex.htm

I received a speeding ticket a few years ago, if I follow some of the logic in this thread it was the officers fault for citing me.
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