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Old 09-25-2015, 06:55 PM   #21
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No problem at all- just be aware of what the bumbershoot (umbrella) will and will not cover.

As litigious as our society has become, I am in favor of $1M umbrellas at a minimum vice a half million...
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Old 09-25-2015, 07:25 PM   #22
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No problem at all- just be aware of what the bumbershoot (umbrella) will and will not cover.

As litigious as our society has become, I am in favor of $1M umbrellas at a minimum vice a half million...
Thanks! I appreciate your input on this. Have $2M umbrella. Hope that will be enough.

Ted
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Old 09-25-2015, 07:40 PM   #23
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Thanks! I appreciate your input on this. Have $2M umbrella. Hope that will be enough.

Ted
Do double check your policy for it's environmental and salvage and to be sure it does not have a seaworthiness clause.
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Old 09-25-2015, 07:46 PM   #24
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Thanks! I appreciate your input on this. Have $2M umbrella. Hope that will be enough.

Ted
I wonder. Does one need to insure the total value of one's assets or merely net assets after paying for taxes if needing to sell to pay a claim?
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Old 09-25-2015, 08:03 PM   #25
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I wonder. Does one need to insure the total value of one's assets or merely net assets after paying for taxes if needing to sell to pay a claim?
When last I looked at Umbrellas, the limits were more what the companies would write. Switched insurance this spring and $2M was the limit for the first year. The difference in premium between $2M and $3M was surprisingly small. Think you might be surprised how small the additional premium is.

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Old 09-25-2015, 08:17 PM   #26
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I wonder. Does one need to insure the total value of one's assets or merely net assets after paying for taxes if needing to sell to pay a claim?
You can be sued for more than your worth so on an umbrella I feel more is better. Just, as Peter said, be very sure you know what your umbrella does cover. It doesn't cover anything in the world, but specific matters, typically backing up coverage you already have for those things.
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Old 09-25-2015, 08:20 PM   #27
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I wonder. Does one need to insure the total value of one's assets or merely net assets after paying for taxes if needing to sell to pay a claim?
In reality- nothing has to be insured. That being said, very few of us have the financial resources to self-insure, and fewer still to properly self-insure. We cover quite a number of high net worth individuals, and all are continually reviewing and revising their policies.

If an umbrella comes into play, there is no selling of anything- the policy will pay to the policy limits per the policy language.

Insure gross, not net, bu the way.
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Old 09-25-2015, 08:33 PM   #28
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Public Liability cover here is a standard $10M. $.5 or 2M seems totally inadequate.
I note the discussion about 2 policies covering the same risks. Policies here used to provide that if a risk was otherwise insured the policy did not operate. That led to the ludicrous situation that if you were "double" or "dual" insured, read literally you had no cover at all for those risks, and insurers would actually try to rely on it. Years ago we took that to the Supreme Court and got it fixed.It might even have got legislated, after I retired I lost interest following it.
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Old 09-25-2015, 08:42 PM   #29
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Old 09-25-2015, 08:51 PM   #30
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For what it's worth I have been with Boats US since 2005. Did have a survey when I purchased the boat, a 1975 Gulf Star. However, I've added lots of upgrades and was able to get them to increase my coverage with a phone call and very little increase in price. Fortunately I've only had one claim (my fault I won't embarass myself explaining), they were very easy to work with and I am totally satisfied especially since they didn't raise my rates after the claim. That's more than I can say for Travelers. My house was burglarized after being with them claim free for over ten years they paid me a little less than $5K and my rates went up by 25%. Needless to say I changed carriers.
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Old 09-25-2015, 09:12 PM   #31
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With a boat name of "On the Rocks," I'm surprised the insurance agent didn't look askance.
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Old 09-25-2015, 09:58 PM   #32
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I learned about cheap boat insurance the hard way about 25 years ago. A factory near our marina blew cintered metal up their stacks and destroyed the canvas, isinglass and fiberglass on well over 1500 boats. Boat US sent a team to the marina the next day and they covered every boat that had a policy with them. in many cases the claims were well in excess of $10K. I did not have Boat US at the time and had to pay out of pocket. Tried to sue the factory and they said good luck. My legal fees would have been higher than the claim.
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Old 09-26-2015, 07:32 AM   #33
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@Slowboat: Are you a paid up member of a vessel assist company for normal assist towing? If so, then it sounds like the VA company is trying to 'double dip' by filing a claim for Payment through the VA system AND filing a claim for salvage towing through your insurance Co. If you are NOT a member of a vessel assist company then did you pay right there at the time? In this case again, it appears the vessel assist is trying to file a salvage towing claim. Send a copy of the payment you made the day of the tow( or the payment the vessel assist filled out from their system) and send that to the insurance company.

Explain to them that you already paid (either by your direct payment, or through paid up membership in a towing club.).

If you didn't pay at the time of service and the towing company told you they were going to bill your insurance company then your screwed.

Vessel assist ( no matter what company) is a distinctly separate company from the 'insurance salvage' policy. It is possible to have just insurance and NO vessel assist towing. And it is possible to have vessel assist towing and NO insurance. But the towing company trying to get payment from both is disreputable.
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Old 09-26-2015, 07:41 AM   #34
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Umbrella policies (in my experience) exclude environmental damages. EPA maximum for a fuel spill is now over $830,000. I advise my clients to have $1 million of liability coverage on the boat plus an Umbrella policy of at least their entire net worth rounded up to the next million.
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Old 09-26-2015, 08:03 AM   #35
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For what it's worth I have been with Boats US since 2005.
Agree w OTR... Boat US has been wonderful to deal with. Started w them in 1989 2 boats ago and have never had a survey required... I did have 2 of the 3 boats surveyed but they never asked for them.
I used to increase coverage for extended cruises a month at a time via a phone call... Several yes ago when I called they said I was now covered permanently w\o any addnl cost...and it carried over to our next boat.
I've the yrs I have had our home & auto insurer quote us for including the boat when I provided the coverage and then current premium they thought it was for 6 mos vs yr...said they couldn't provide lower coverage for that amt.
Boat US now has a declining deductible...I think t goes down 10% for each yr w\o a claim. Has allowed me to increase deductible level...save $...and their reduction lowered my out of pocket if I did have a claim.
Bottom line I like dealing w an ins co that understands boats and provides exceptional coverage at competitive rates...
Highly Recommend for anyone in the boat ins market.

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Old 09-26-2015, 08:10 AM   #36
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Umbrella policies are often "following form" policies. That is, they provide additional coverage for whatever the underlying policies cover. If the underlying policy includes pollution coverage, then the umbrella may provide additional dollars of pollution coverage. If the underlying policy does not include pollution coverge, the umbrella may not either. You should not think of the umbrella as fiiling gaps in the underlying coverage without reading it carefully.

Remember, insurance companies make money by not paying claims.
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Old 09-26-2015, 08:23 AM   #37
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...I think something is rotten in Denmark....
I agree, and from my personal experience with Travelers insurance, I'd say it's them from which the smell emanates.

Run, don't walk, to find a better company to cover your vessel, car, etc!

Never again!
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Old 09-26-2015, 08:25 AM   #38
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No problem at all- just be aware of what the bumbershoot (umbrella) will and will not cover.

As litigious as our society has become, I am in favor of $1M umbrellas at a minimum vice a half million...
You said a boatload there. Especially the "litigious" part. Big part of the "insurance" problem in our country.
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Old 09-26-2015, 08:35 AM   #39
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Umbrella policies are often "following form" policies. That is, they provide additional coverage for whatever the underlying policies cover. If the underlying policy includes pollution coverage, then the umbrella may provide additional dollars of pollution coverage. If the underlying policy does not include pollution coverge, the umbrella may not either. You should not think of the umbrella as fiiling gaps in the underlying coverage without reading it carefully.

Remember, insurance companies make money by not paying claims.
The cynicism about insurance always amazes me.

Insurance companies are a business, like any other, and are in business to make a profit. The challenge/problem I often see is that the public sees insurance as an ATM machine and its assumed that every single event that generates a claim is automatically covered.

Doesn't work that way. The policy language (that almost nobody reads) spells out in detail what is and what is not covered.

In my experience as a broker/agent, I see companies looking for ways to pay a claim- above and beyond what the policy language stipulates.

With regards to an umbrella policy- I haven't seen one that automatically covers all the liability coverages of the underlying form. GL (general liability)- yes. All the specifics of a given form - no.
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Old 09-26-2015, 10:01 AM   #40
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There is an additional type policy to umbrella. That is excess policies. They traditionally follow form.

One of the best definitions I've found of umbrella is from wikipedia of all places.

Umbrella insurance refers to liability insurance that is in excess of specified other policies and also potentially primary insurance for losses not covered by the other policies.


Note the two words in bold. It doesn't automatically follow form, it specifies which policies. Also, it doesn't automatically cover things not covered by other policies, it potentially does if so written. It's really like all policies in that it tells you within the policy what it does and does not cover. You can not assume you're completely covered against all liabilities. For us, getting it just right took longer than any other policy we have simply because it touches so many areas. Also, just trying to think of every possible bad thing that can happen, even those most unlikely, is difficult.
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