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Old 12-25-2010, 03:05 AM   #1
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Boat Survey

Inquiry:* Pre purchase-- do you get the boat surveyed first, or do you get the engines*done first, assuming that you are having them done separately?* Do you (did you) get oil analysis done pre?** KJ
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Old 12-25-2010, 04:40 AM   #2
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RE: Boat Survey

" Do you (did you) get oil analysis done pre? "

The boat will give a load of clues just by looking and talking to the owner.

Look for the spares carried , look fore the oil used , Is it diesel oil or car oil.

Diesel antifreez or car ?

Ask the owner for the oil sample log, if the answer is DUHHH, be very prepared to spend big bucks.
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Old 12-25-2010, 04:57 AM   #3
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RE: Boat Survey

After negotiating a price we got a survey and sea trial - bank and insurance wanted it (and so did we). The oil tests are so cheap they are worth it regardless. We skipped the engine survey as maintenance history was available.

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Old 12-25-2010, 07:05 AM   #4
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RE: Boat Survey

*"if the answer is DUHHH, be very prepared to spend big bucks."

I cannot agree with that. Many do not do regular samples, but that doesn't mean the engine is bad.
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Old 12-25-2010, 07:24 AM   #5
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RE: Boat Survey

Quote:
KJ wrote:

Inquiry:* Pre purchase-- .....Do you (did you) get oil analysis done pre?** KJ
This doesn't always tell you much.* If he just changed the oil, your testing clean oil.* If the boat has good maintenance records, the engine room and general conditions usually indicates how the boat was treated.* Engine survey?* We have had them in the past.* I stick to the surveyor as he's doing his stuff.* It's a great education and if this boat is not the one, you are better prepared for the next one.* In the over all cost of the purchase, a survey isn't that much more money.* IMHO.

*Larry/Lena
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Old 12-25-2010, 08:46 AM   #6
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RE: Boat Survey

Oil analysis is a good idea for a pre purchase. Must admit I don't do it on my boat as part of my service schedule. Do regular oil changes based on an hour meter which works out to more than once a month during the summer.

Also, some diesels (such as mine) use automotive antifreeze with an additive package as recommended by the manufacturer. It's a good idea to read the owners manual before assuming the PO is using the wrong fluids.

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Old 12-25-2010, 09:03 AM   #7
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RE: Boat Survey

All good info...thanks guys.**** KJ
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Old 12-25-2010, 10:53 AM   #8
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Boat Survey

." Many do not do regular samples, but that doesn't mean the engine is bad."


True , But what we are looking for is ATTITUDE.

Did the PO change the oil because it was Black from a few years use and he is now selling his queen , or does he use a book , and follow it as the guy that marinized the engine suggested?

A fellow with a professional attitude towards Preventive Maint will usually keep a log , and probably have at least annual oil sampling.

(wow! Its $14.00 at DD cheaper elsewhere)

The fear is the rats nest , ain't broke why mess with it? that is the lifestyle of especially many live aboard folks .

WE can always fix it before we go cruising , EXCEPT , now!* its YOU that may be cruising.

Caviat Emptor

-- Edited by FF on Saturday 25th of December 2010 11:54:56 AM
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Old 12-25-2010, 11:16 AM   #9
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RE: Boat Survey

I change oil regulary but don't get oil samples. Since Freddy thinks I've got a bad attitude I think I'll take a nap untill untill the flack stops.
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Old 12-25-2010, 11:28 AM   #10
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RE: Boat Survey

The fear is the rats nest , ain't broke why mess with it? that is the lifestyle of especially many live aboard folks .

Just plain ridiculous. One of the reasons I live aboard is so I can attend to maintenance and USE my boat on a regular basis. Also, my boat gets used just about weekly regardless of season which is probably more than a fair number of the .5 million dollar dock queens whose owners inhabit this site.

Maybe I'm unique but my philosophy on boat maintenance (tho expensive) is simple: take good care of her ... you never know when you may need her to save your life.
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Old 12-25-2010, 11:32 AM   #11
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RE: Boat Survey

Quote:
nomadwilly wrote:

I change oil regulary but don't get oil samples. Since Freddy thinks I've got a bad attitude I think I'll take a nap untill untill the flack stops.
Looks to me like your doing a very good job of napping.

*
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Old 12-25-2010, 12:26 PM   #12
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RE: Boat Survey

C'mon guys, it's Christmas, let's be good boys and girls. KJ
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Old 12-25-2010, 02:41 PM   #13
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RE: Boat Survey

Quote:
FF wrote:The fear is the rats nest , ain't broke why mess with it? that is the lifestyle
I think the "if it ain't broke don't mess wih it" philosophy is fine if it's applied with common sense.* A regular oil change interval based on the manufacturer's recommendation isn't based on being "broke," it's simply smart mainteneance.

Periodic oil samples are fine if they make the boater more confident in the engine(s).* On the other hand, from what I've read, observed, and been told, the one reason engines DON'T shut down or fail underway is an oil problem that can be detected only with an analysis.* Engines fail because they overheat or have fuel problems or blow an oil line or a head gasket or whatever.* I don't hear of them dieing into silence because the oil had 0.00326 ppm of such-and-such in it.

Oil analysis is a major benefit in determining how an engine is doing with regards to needing an overhaul.* In aviation an oil analysis program can be used to extend the TBO of some engines.

We do what Eric does.* We change the oil and filter regularly (actually at half the interval time called for in the operator's manual), but we don't have the oil analyzed.* We had an oil analysis done during the pre-purchase engine survey, but that was just to get a one-time snapshot of what things were like inside the engines.* For oil analysis to be truly useful, it needs to be done at regular intervals so you can see trends developing.

*
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Old 12-25-2010, 03:17 PM   #14
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RE: Boat Survey

Quote:
Marin wrote:We had an oil analysis done during the pre-purchase engine survey, but that was just to get a one-time snapshot of what things were like inside the engines.
Unless that sample was taken after a really long run all it told you was what things were like inside the oil. If it had been changed immediately before the survey it wouldn't tell much about the engine that you probably couldn't see or hear anyway.

Short of the trend developed over multiple samples the only thing that will give you a snapshot of the inside of the engine is a borescope with a camera attached.
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Old 12-26-2010, 05:03 AM   #15
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RE: Boat Survey

"I change oil regulary but don't get oil samples."

That's great , IF you keep a log that shows the engine hours and dates of the work.

But think about it in another way ,
on a 100 -200 hour a year boat it is really doubtful that oil samples will show much of anything besides ATTITUDE or an impending disaster.

Eventually most folks will be selling their boat and on old boats "paint sells da boat" is the motto, but its really CONDITION you are selling .

A huge investment of $15 bucks a year is $150 in a decade , Its my belief that documented investment in maint (and a engine log) will pay 10X to 50X in resale value.

All your thousands of bucks of electric toys will be far outdated and of Zero interest and Zero value to the next guy, and another task to "upgrade",

BUT the documented care for the engine , Priceless!
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Old 12-26-2010, 02:32 PM   #16
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RE: Boat Survey

Quote:
RickB wrote:

*
Marin wrote:We had an oil analysis done during the pre-purchase engine survey, but that was just to get a one-time snapshot of what things were like inside the engines.
Unless that sample was taken after a really long run all it told you was what things were like inside the oil.

YThe oil samples were taken after the boat had been run for about three hours, two on our sea trial and one by the engine surveyor.* But the oil was not fresh and the surveyor said he wanted to see what sort of metals might be in the oil.

But you're right, the samples did not show what things were like "inside the engines" as far as their physical condition went.* Just what things were like "inside the oil."

*
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Old 12-27-2010, 12:25 AM   #17
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RE: Boat Survey

I'd like to revisit the first part of my inquiry.* If you were going to get pre purchase surveys done, which would you (or did you) get done first, the boat or the engines?* KJ
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Old 12-27-2010, 12:33 AM   #18
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Boat Survey

With first enquiry I would check how old engines are, how many hours and did owner keep maint records.
If that all looked kosher and the engines were not DDs I would have the hull/boat surveyed.
If the engines were DDs I would go away but that is just a personal fact.

Benn

-- Edited by Tidahapah on Monday 27th of December 2010 01:34:05 AM
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Old 12-27-2010, 02:07 AM   #19
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RE: Boat Survey

Quote:
Tidahapah wrote:

*If the engines were DDs I would go away but that is just a personal fact.

Benn

-- Edited by Tidahapah on Monday 27th of December 2010 01:34:05 AM
DDs** ?

*
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Old 12-27-2010, 04:47 AM   #20
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Boat Survey

DD's Are Detroit Diesels , the most common being the 6-71.

Designed in 1936 and modestly efficient if selected and set up properly

A DD will produce 16 hp from a gallon of diesel, some more modern 50's taxi cab engine marinizations can go 18hp , but their longevity 1/4 to 1/20 , depending on use.They are industrial rated , so 165hp at 1800 is FOREVER.

DD have fantastic reliability , and can be overhauled in place , cylinders pistons wrist pins bearings, main and rod for about a grand in parts.
BUT the units are labor intensive during the overhaul and a mechanic and book are required , not a parts R&R guy.

For a trawler their ability to get home ,( loose a cylinder , IT STILL RUNS!) is what has had them the engine of choice in work boats (not TT) and on oil rigs .

In the late 80's they became "obsolete" from the clean air Nazis , however as the diesel engine with the longest production run in world history , parts are still cheap and easy (and with world wide demand should be for another half century) .

A huge bonus for yacht service where the vast majority of time is the ease with which the engine can be placed out of service.
6 bolts are removed from the engine side and preserving oil is simply sprayed into the exposed cylinders , a turn and a second spray , restore 6 bolts , done!

Fogging oil is about $5.00 a can at NAPA and will do the engine numerous times , so even ex sailors can store their engines properly in about an hour..

The downside is they are big and heavy .

-- Edited by FF on Monday 27th of December 2010 05:50:40 AM
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