Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 03-11-2013, 08:17 PM   #41
Veteran Member
 
City: Seabeck, WA
Country: USA
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by caltexflanc View Post
Wade and Maureen, you certainly sound like you have your heads on straight about this. Best of good fortune as you move forward.

She will become more focused on operational ergonomics as you do more boating. In our case, one example for instance is that drove the desire for walk around decks on both our parts. I was determined to have walk in engine rooms because I am big and clumsy, but a side benefit is that they became more welcoming to her.. she can happily do the pre-departure check list, check the batteries etc whereas there was no way she was crawling into the Er of other boats we saw. Other wives are more adventurous on that front.

Anyway, have fun on the journey!
Thanks for the vote of confidence, Caltexflanc. It's funny you should mention stand-up engine rooms because that's on my list. It would be very nice to have but definitely not in prevalence out there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
It looks ungainly as a Coot.
Ungainly: 1. Lacking grace or ease of movement or form; clumsy. 2. Difficult to move or use; unwieldy. Hmmm...doesn't seem like it fits to me. Great lines, stout, strong looks, efficient...
__________________
Advertisement

__________________
Wade & Maureen
Trawler Dreamers
Wadosan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2013, 09:05 PM   #42
Guru
 
City: Hotel, CA
Country: Fried
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 8,328
Quote:
Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
It looks ungainly as a Coot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wadosan View Post

Ungainly: 1. Lacking grace or ease of movement or form; clumsy. 2. Difficult to move or use; unwieldy. Hmmm...doesn't seem like it fits to me. Great lines, stout, strong looks, efficient...
Wade, Mark has alluded in the past that the coot may be at the helm

Just kidding Mark
__________________

__________________
Craig

It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they've been fooled - Mark Twain
CPseudonym is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2013, 09:15 PM   #43
Veteran Member
 
City: Seabeck, WA
Country: USA
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by CPseudonym View Post
Wade, Mark has alluded in the past that the coot may be at the helm

Just kidding Mark
I didn't know Mark well enough to suggest that.
__________________
Wade & Maureen
Trawler Dreamers
Wadosan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2013, 09:19 PM   #44
GFC
Guru
 
GFC's Avatar
 
City: Tri Cities, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Beachcomber
Vessel Model: Sea Ray 550 Sedan Bridge
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,685
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrisjs View Post
I think that apart from all other considerations mentioned previously, you really need to consider what size is manageable for 2 persons. I know that other may jump in here and brag how they single-hand a 65ft yacht, but that is not usually the reality!! We find that a 50ft single screw presents enough of a challenge for 2 agile persons. Get much bigger and you start to need a third crew member.
My wife and I are quite capable of handing our boat (60'LOA) by ourselves. We frequently pass through the locks on the Snake and Columbia River without any issues and, in fact, last year on our return trip from Portland, OR, we were the last of 6 boats going into John Day Lock and the first to call in that we were secured to the bollard.

Here's a shot as we're entering one of the locks so you can see they're no tiny thing. They're about 86' wide, ~800' long with an average lift somewhere around 100'...

and a shot of my Admiral as she's getting us tied to the bollard....


But, I must admit/brag that I have the best deckhand a skipper could ask for.
__________________
Mike and Tina
Beachcomber 1995 Sea Ray 550 Sedan Bridge
GFC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2013, 10:01 PM   #45
Guru
 
Codger2's Avatar
 
City: San Diego
Country: US
Vessel Name: "Sandpiper"
Vessel Model: 2006 42' Ocean Alexander Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,420
Quote:
Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
It looks ungainly as a Coot.

I don't agree at all with that comment!
__________________
Codger2

My passion for improving my boat(s) exceeds my desire to constantly cruise them.
Codger2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2013, 10:14 PM   #46
TF Site Team
 
Pau Hana's Avatar


 
City: Seattle, WA
Country: Good Ol' US of A!
Vessel Name: Pau Hana
Vessel Model: 1989 PT52 Overseas Yachtfisher
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,647
Yup- I meant Wade

We're on Lake Union, westside, about a mile south of the Fremont Bridge. I'll PM you my phone number and address.

On another note, the charter thing is not a problem (as you've found out). The biggest challenge has been overcome- your attitude. Having the right attitude with regards to your light experience is critical- I've run into too many owners that are under the firm belief that "I can afford the boat, so I can drive the boat".

By the way, I have the best 1st mate ever!
__________________
Peter- Marine Insurance Guru & tuna fishing addict!

1989 52' PT Overseas yachtfisher
Pau Hana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 12:03 AM   #47
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: 2011 Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,254
Quote:
Originally Posted by CPseudonym View Post
Wade, Mark has alluded in the past that the coot may be at the helm
Yeah, tell me about it. Celebration in the Coot's saloon (hah, hah):

__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 07:57 AM   #48
Senior Member
 
IslandEagle's Avatar
 
City: Toronto & Nanaimo
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Island Eagle
Vessel Model: DeFever
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 232
Hi Wade,

This has been a fun thread to watch. I'll throw in a few ideas too:

1) Large boats can be fun, no question about it. But when you get over 60 feet, dockage can be difficult to come by in certain areas. You should definitely have a chat with marinas in the area you keep the boat.

2) Ditto that for boatyards. If you have a 100,000 Lb + boat, that limits the number of Travelifts that can handle her. Wooden boat? Then you need a real marine railway.

3) Do you like boathandling? The larger you get, the more you have to like it. Myself, I love setting up springlines, watching the wind, and putting Island Eagle where she's supposed to be. But for other people, this would be no fun at all, in fact it would be downright terrifying.

So with your requirements in mind, there are two boats that I would be directing you to take a look at:

First is the DeFever 44/44+5.
These are nice, roomy double cabin boats, not particularly fancy but very well-built. The aft cabin is full-beam, which gives you a very liveable "back porch" on the aft deck. The cabins are well-separated, which is great if you have kids&grandkids (some of them have 4 bunks up front as well). One nice things is that the engineroom has close to full headroom. The 44+5 is the exact same boat with a 5 foot cockpit added on. There are usually about a dozen for sale on YW at any given time.

Second is the Grand Banks 49 Classic.
These were the "top of the line" Grand Banks when they were built, and they show it. They have two cabins forward, which is nice. The interior and systems were top-notch for the time, and many have been well maintained and lightly used. The engineroom is very roomy and full-headroom. Although they are now mostly about 25 years old, they are beautiful boats and very reasonably priced.

Have fun,

Scott Welch
Island Eagle
IslandEagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 08:32 AM   #49
Guru
 
caltexflanc's Avatar
 
City: North Carolina for now
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Small Incentive
Vessel Model: Boston Whaler 130 Sport
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,786
Great post Scott. We chartered both a GB 49 Classic and an even rarer 49 motoryacht, both in very beautiful condition. I almost bought the MY to keep it in the fleet until we were ready to go cruising, but chickened out. We learned/confirmed from those boats that we wanted a full height engine room vs the stoop or crawl ins we had been on before, a down galley, and full walk around decks and a big flying bridge. The MY had a down galley with convertible dinette. All of our "trawlering" also confirmed with Ann that if we were going to be full time live aboards she wanted as much "real" furniture as possible (which we have now in our salon and on the aft deck) rather than permanent built-ins. Also an aft master cabin. All things which many other happy cruisers either feel quite differently about or don't care about.
__________________
George

"There's the Right Way, the Wrong Way, and what some guy says he's gotten away with"
caltexflanc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 09:13 PM   #50
Veteran Member
 
City: Seabeck, WA
Country: USA
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by IslandEagle View Post
Hi Wade,

This has been a fun thread to watch. I'll throw in a few ideas too:

1) Large boats can be fun, no question about it. But when you get over 60 feet, dockage can be difficult to come by in certain areas. You should definitely have a chat with marinas in the area you keep the boat.

2) Ditto that for boatyards. If you have a 100,000 Lb + boat, that limits the number of Travelifts that can handle her. Wooden boat? Then you need a real marine railway.
I love the idea of a wooden boat but not the upkeep. I hear that wooden boats are very quiet underway due to the properties of wood being a good insulator.


Quote:
Originally Posted by IslandEagle View Post
3) Do you like boathandling? The larger you get, the more you have to like it. Myself, I love setting up springlines, watching the wind, and putting Island Eagle where she's supposed to be. But for other people, this would be no fun at all, in fact it would be downright terrifying.
I guess I don't know but the way my mind works, the challenge of bringing a larger boat in right where I want it is appealing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IslandEagle View Post
So with your requirements in mind, there are two boats that I would be directing you to take a look at:

First is the DeFever 44/44+5.
These are nice, roomy double cabin boats, not particularly fancy but very well-built. The aft cabin is full-beam, which gives you a very liveable "back porch" on the aft deck. The cabins are well-separated, which is great if you have kids&grandkids (some of them have 4 bunks up front as well). One nice things is that the engineroom has close to full headroom. The 44+5 is the exact same boat with a 5 foot cockpit added on. There are usually about a dozen for sale on YW at any given time.
Is this the flush-deck model you're referring to? If so, I have had my eye on this model as well. I find it interesting however that boat manufacturers seem to mimic each other's design. For example, this model is very similar to the Marine Trader 50 that we also like very much. Who made which model first I do not know but both have the stretched salon as well. Both have a stand up engine room but the MT50 splits the engine room with a passageway so access to one side of each engine is more limited. I like the DeFever design better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IslandEagle View Post
Second is the Grand Banks 49 Classic.
These were the "top of the line" Grand Banks when they were built, and they show it. They have two cabins forward, which is nice. The interior and systems were top-notch for the time, and many have been well maintained and lightly used. The engineroom is very roomy and full-headroom. Although they are now mostly about 25 years old, they are beautiful boats and very reasonably priced.
I'll admit a Grand Banks has a special place for me as it is the first large boat I got a ride in when I was a little kid. If I recall it was a 42 foot Classic but it was long ago so I'm not sure. The only thing we're not really fond of is the aft cabin that is not a full width as it takes away the large aft deck space. That deck space is important to us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IslandEagle View Post
Have fun,

Scott Welch
Island Eagle
Thank you, Scott. Appreciate the pointers. If you have any other boats that you think is worth looking into, I'd be appreciative of your advice. Of course that goes for all the TF members.
__________________
Wade & Maureen
Trawler Dreamers
Wadosan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2013, 07:13 AM   #51
Senior Member
 
IslandEagle's Avatar
 
City: Toronto & Nanaimo
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Island Eagle
Vessel Model: DeFever
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wadosan View Post
I'll admit a Grand Banks has a special place for me as it is the first large boat I got a ride in when I was a little kid. If I recall it was a 42 foot Classic but it was long ago so I'm not sure. The only thing we're not really fond of is the aft cabin that is not a full width as it takes away the large aft deck space. That deck space is important to us.
The "Motor Yacht" version of the GB Classic has a full-width aft cabin:

1987 Grand Banks Motoryacht / 3 Strm / Stabilized Power Boat For

By the way, the aft-vs-forward cabin thread (Aft versus Forward Cabin) is well worth reading.

Scott Welch
Island Eagle
IslandEagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2013, 01:52 PM   #52
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
The negative aspect of a full-width aft cabin for us is the lack of a full walkaround deck. That is an absolute must-have for any cruising boat we own and we will happily accept an aft cabin that is a fewf feet narrower in order to have a full walkaround deck. The full width cabin that forces you to step up even higher at the back third of the boat is very limiting in our minds. And apparently in a lot of others' minds. The GB Motoryacht configuration is the least popular of all the GB layouts.
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2013, 04:48 PM   #53
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: 2011 Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,254
I'm totally with Marin regarding the importance/convenience of a walk-around deck. Underneath the 16-inch-wide deck of the Coot are the water and fuel tanks, so the less-than-beam-width saloon hasn't really given up any floor space because of the deck.
__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2013, 05:01 PM   #54
Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 734
When we were shopping for a trawler several years ago we explored about 25 brokerage vessels, not counting the many that we checked out at boat shows. Easily came to the same conclusion that side decks are invaluable in terms of docking, picking up moorings, and being able to get from bow to stern in a hurry. Not sure I understand Mark's point about floor space, because there is definitely a trade-off in terms of salon space given over to side decks. I would also strongly go in favor of complete walk around decks versus the lop-sided approach that limits access to only the port or starboard side. One simple example of how important the water level side decks are is when picking up a mooring, especially one without a pick up stick. Our bow is too high to reach a mooring. The only way that works is to pick up mid ships with a line then walk the line forward to the bow. Not possible without the side decks. We ended up with a Selene 47 and have cruised extensively. I would never buy a vessel without side decks unless it was primarily for dock use.
Chrisjs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2013, 06:15 PM   #55
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
Something to be aware of, at least with GBs--- I can't speak for other makes--- is that a full-walkaround deck does not constrict the total width of the aft cabin. It narrows by a bit the part above the level of the deck. But below the level of the deck, the cabin goes all the way out to the side of the hull.

So this means that for the berths, cabinets, drawers, shelves, etc, the cabin is the full width of the boat. The only part that is narrower due to the side decks is the airspace you are occupying when you are standing up.

It's even a benefit in the aft head. There are shelves behind the toilet that occupy the space under the deck. One of these, after reinforcing, proved the perfect spot for the boat's ten gallon hot water heater.

The first photo below shows the sets of drawers and the shelf that extend back under the deck all the way to the hull. The second photo show the queen berth in the aft cabin on the opposite side. There is a convenient shelf between the outside edge of the berth and the hull which holds all sorts of things including our Bose iPod SoundDock.


Click image for larger version

Name:	image-1865864468.jpg
Views:	96
Size:	66.5 KB
ID:	17167



Click image for larger version

Name:	image-2199487878.jpg
Views:	92
Size:	48.2 KB
ID:	17168
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2013, 06:55 PM   #56
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,707
We have the walk around side decks and wish we had the cabin room. Bearing significantly on that statement is the fact that we have a small 30' boat. We should have the Voyager model Willard w it's widebody aft section but I wouldn't trade all the custom stuff we put into Willy to get the space.

With the extra space I'd install a diesel stove (like a Dickinson) and turn our L settee into a proper dinette. I hate the L settee.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	STH71158 copy.jpg
Views:	69
Size:	106.5 KB
ID:	17170  
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2013, 08:26 PM   #57
Guru
 
City: Hotel, CA
Country: Fried
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 8,328
Interesting observation Eric. Our boats are similar in size and find the dinette to be a huge waste of otherwise usable floor space in our small cabin. We'd far prefer a settee like in Willy. It would make access to the v berth far more comfortable. Unlike Willy though, Bliss has a large spacious canvas and eisinglass enclosed cockpit that adds significantly to our living area.
__________________
Craig

It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they've been fooled - Mark Twain
CPseudonym is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2013, 09:09 PM   #58
Veteran Member
 
City: Seabeck, WA
Country: USA
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 53
For us, and again we have no experience in actual boating like this, we do like the full width salon based on the boats we've been aboard at the boat shows. I was kinda hoping the TF member with the Helmsman 38 Pilothouse would chime in because my concerns are also with accessibility when mooring/docking. I just don't know if that's an issue. I know the sales guy for the Helmsman said it wasn't a big deal but I dunno. Without the side decks, I'm picturing Maureen at the stern while I bring the boat in. When we get near the dock, come to a stop, I hop out and handle the bow, she hops out and ties the stern. Is that how that would work? Or does she hop out, runs forward secures the bow while I gently power the stern in and hop out and secure that? Sounds good in my head but...

The full width aft stateroom is nice because the aft deck is what is important to us. The bedroom space is a nice plus but it doesn't look like there a significant difference between the full aft deck or the narrower one. It's just the desk space above. Having to step up to the aft decks from the side decks is less desirable hence my interest in the flush-deck models.
__________________
Wade & Maureen
Trawler Dreamers
Wadosan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2013, 09:40 PM   #59
Guru
 
caltexflanc's Avatar
 
City: North Carolina for now
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Small Incentive
Vessel Model: Boston Whaler 130 Sport
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,786
Having used both the 49 MY and "Classic" by GB fairly extensively, and being big fans of walk around decks, I have to say that the set up on the MY version was not onerous at all, it was still very easy to get all around the boat with a very modest step up aft. The real ergonomic trade off was the lack of a small cock pit but in return you got a very spacious deck above the master SR which acted as an extension to the Flying bridge, and a third day head below.



__________________
George

"There's the Right Way, the Wrong Way, and what some guy says he's gotten away with"
caltexflanc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2013, 12:01 AM   #60
Guru
 
City: Hotel, CA
Country: Fried
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 8,328
Wade the walk around decks or sun deck vs cockpit issues are really something personal to every boat owner. How YOU intend to use the boat is the important part. Side decks make line handling easier yes, but how much time do you plan on spending handling lines? I have side decks that don't get used at all for docking and I manage to tie up just fine.

If you fish you definitely want a cockpit. If not a sun deck would seem to be very desirable. The extra interior room would be a nice bonus too. If no side decks you will find a way to make it work just like all the other wide body owners do IMO. Charter both and spend a few days on each to see the pluses and minuses.
__________________

__________________
Craig

It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they've been fooled - Mark Twain
CPseudonym is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:10 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012