Boat Shopping Etiquette ?

[dhays]

Interesting replies. As a buyer, all you should care about is seing the boat. Not your concern how far it is for the broker or owner to get to it. If it's for sale it should already be cleaned so again nothing you need to think about. Buying several years out is really just want you think, not a fact. Only if you do not have the money available then yes, take it easy on putting people out.

Technically, you are correct. However, I try to treat people, and thereby their time and money, with respect.

I know folks would would go out on a Sunday and test drive cars, not because they wanted to buy a new car, but just for fun and entertainment. Sure they could afford to buy a new car at the time, but they had no intention of doing so. I always felt that behavior was tacky.

 

[JDCAVE]

The OP wrote the following:

I am just beginning the process of looking for a boat. Realistically I am several years out from being ready to purchase, but want to get started looking at various types and sizes of boats so that I can begin to get a better idea of what I may eventually buy.​

You don't need a broker to do what he's describing. You walk docks, you drive to see boats, but you don't ask brokers to go show you boats. It doesn't take a broker to look at various types and sizes. Specific boats is irrelevant if you're several years out.

Sorry BB. I did. I did all of that. I walked the docks, went to boat shows and I phoned brokers, told them I was looking and would they show me a boat. I always said I was undecided and just looking. They could decide if they wanted to show me the boat or not.

At the end of the day, it's my money, and I needed to see "product" and get on the boats and look. The process took 2 years. It's not altogether different than going to open houses. For goodness sakes people shouldn't feel that they shouldn't ask to go see a boat. There is too much at stake to think you should only go on a boat if you are prepared to buy.

Jim

 

[micheln]

Can't teach manners to some people. The OP however seems to have plenty, and perhaps a tad to much and could end up missing something right for them because of it.

 

[man n black]

Further...and this is because I am currently on an international trip to look at a few different boats...IF the broker screws up or is crappy to you in ANY way..bye bye sale....you don't need the headache (case in point...the broker we are dealing with pretty much threw a temper tantrum in a restaurant in a foreign country completely embarrassing us..we will definitely not be buying through this broker)

My wife and I, and the owner, also had a very embarrassing situation with a broker. The broker was to busy to show us the boat and told us that the owner was at the boat and he would show us the boat. The seller was taking a friend of his out on the boat and invited us to go along. The broker just happened to show up just as the owner was starting to leave the slip, He had a fit that the owner was taking us along,you could have heard him a mile away. Needless to say the owner was very upset, being humiliated in front of his friends from out-of-state, he asked the broker to leave. The broker refused to leave until my wife and I got off the boat. I found out later that the owner fired that broker.

THAT is only one of the problems we've had with these brokers....

Another case in point (same trip).....we toured a boat that the (very) polite owner was at...The owner told my wife (in a language we both spoke but not the broker) that WE went WAYYY above and beyond to see his boat...and at our price point we should definitely have been treated differently (ie: more upscale).

I now have ZERO tolerance for BS from a broker....We don't particularly NEED to spend our hard earned dollar on the money pit that is a boat.....If they are not going out of thier way I am not buying through them...

Ch

 

[BruceK]

Don`t lose sight of the fact you want to buy a boat, not a broker. A broker might turn lots of people off, but the boat could be a goodie. If he is turning others off you could get a good run at it.

 

[mramoo]

BandB, I beg to differ with you, In The PNW You can not get on the docks to walk them without a broker or a friend that has a key to get on the docks, just about all of the marina docks are secured.

 

[BandB]

BandB, I beg to differ with you, In The PNW You can not get on the docks to walk them without a broker or a friend that has a key to get on the docks, just about all of the marina docks are secured.

Guess we chose poorly as I'd recall fewer than half we visited having locked gates.

 

[ksanders]

Several great places to "boat browse"

Boats afloat shows I know in Seattle they have one (or more) every year.
These are great because the boats are all set up and open for casual inspection.

Boat "for sale yards". In the PACNW the best one is called Banna Belt Boats in Anacortes. This is a great system because the boats are all in one place and set up to be viewed.

In our area the publicly owned harbors are public places, and are accessable to all. If you can find one of these types of harbors they are a great opportunity to not only see boats, but to talk boats with owners. Most boat owners are happy to take a few minutes to talk boats.

 

[Seevee]

The Broker is there to SELL the boat, and be fair and polite with all customers. If not, he's not doing his job.

How far the Broker has to travel is a non issue. Is he going to pay YOU for your time to come and see the boat? Time is worth money... on BOTH sides.

By all means, all should be honest and courteous. But there's nothing wrong with not showing your full hand, that's part of the negotiating plan.

And, If I'm a seller and the broker didn't show the boat to EVERYONE that called, I'd fire him. You NEVER know when a tire kicker just buys. And I don't believe there's such a thing as tire kickers. No one in their right mind just goes out for fun to shop for boats. They are ALL buyers, it's just when they find the right boat and the right time and price. And if the buyer wanted a ride, I would NOT require a stinkin downpayment and a contract. That really turns off a lot of buyers, myself included. And I've passed on boats I would have otherwise bought because of this.

Sure, there are good brokers out there, and I've used some, but buyer and seller beware.. I've seen more misrepresentation and mis information from brokers than not. Heck, they always have a disclaimer telling you not to trust or rely on the info they are providing!! And if it's not to be relied upon, what should I believe? I always ask them to provide info they can stand behind.

 

[FF]

Brokers want to deal with BUYERS,

someone dreaming of a purchase in 2-3 years is a Lookey Lou,

who might become a buyer in the distant future.

A hard way to earn a living.

 

[gaston]

Brokers want to deal with BUYERS,

someone dreaming of a purchase in 2-3 years is a Lookey Lou,

who might become a buyer in the distant future.

A hard way to earn a living.

On the other hand 3% commission on a $5 mill boat doing SFA ???

 

[ksanders]

On the other hand 3% commission on a $5 mill boat doing SFA ???

Thats a bit of a stretch for this thread I think

Most folks here are dealing with <$100k boats
Less in the 100-300K size, and even less above that.

10% commission split in half of a $100K boat is $5K

$5K might seem like allot untill you have to start putting in the hours, and spending the money necessary to run a small business, then $5K in revenue is a lot smaller. Figure half or so in your pocket.

So you gotta sell a $100K boat every two weeks to make an income that woudnt allow you to buy a boat for yourself.

If you cater to clients that are going to buy two years from now, You need around 50 of them who actually close on a $100K boat through you in the "pipeline" in order to support a $5K a month in your pocket paycheck.

Only a small percentage of "trawler wannabees" probably ever actually get serious about a boat, so it's easy to see that a broker has to be extremely careful in how he invests his time.

Nope, not an easy living at all.

 

[Hotrod]

Thats a bit of a stretch for this thread I think

Most folks here are dealing with <$100k boats
Less in the 100-300K size, and even less above that.

10% commission split in half of a $100K boat is $5K

$5K might seem like allot untill you have to start putting in the hours, and spending the money necessary to run a small business, then $5K in revenue is a lot smaller. Figure half or so in your pocket.

So you gotta sell a $100K boat every two weeks to make an income that woudnt allow you to buy a boat for yourself.

If you cater to clients that are going to buy two years from now, You need what 50 of them who actually close on a $100K boat through you in the "pipeline" in order to support a $5K a month in your pocket paycheck.

Only a small percentage of "trawler wannabees" probably ever actually get serious about a boat, so it's easy to see that a broker has to be extremely careful in how he invests his time.

Nope, not an easy living at all.

Being in the car business for many years, similar, in regard to lookers. Every Saturday, there would be a handful of men that would come to my stores, same ones every week, while their wives were at the hair dressers. In all those years, how many Corvettes, or anything else, do you think I sold, NONE, not one, but boy, could they talk, dream, or whatever.

 

[Gdavid]

I believe the OP should be straight forward with the broker and let the broker determine if the trip is worth his effort HOWEVER if I were the owner I would be disappointed that my broker is implying any inconvenience to him that would give any potential buyer hesitation to come see the boat. If the OP did not mention that he isn't ready to buy yet, the broker should not be saying anything to discourage a visit. Why did the broker take on this vessel that is difficult for him to show? Did the broker or owner believe it would be a problem at the time of offering? Forgive my ignorance, but it sounds like the owner is getting shortchanged.

 

[Robster_in_edmonds]

I just talked with a guy trying to sell a boat for $190k ( and worth it). He was frustrated that I was the first serious potential buyer, and that many of the lookers not only wasted his time, they wanted a free ride!

As others have said, use boat shows, trawler fests, and sites like this one. Walk the public docks and talk to owners. They will teach you a lot more than brokers!

If you aren't ready to buy a boat today, as in able to write the check, don't waste a broker's time.

 

[Hotrod]

I just talked with a guy trying to sell a boat for $190k ( and worth it). He was frustrated that I was the first serious potential buyer, and that many of the lookers not only wasted his time, they wanted a free ride!

As others have said, use boat shows, trawler fests, and sites like this one. Walk the public docks and talk to owners. They will teach you a lot more than brokers!

If you aren't ready to buy a boat today, as in able to write the check, don't waste a broker's time.

You talk about free rides. We had a couple come up to us sitting on the back porch, and asked to view our boat, they said they were thinking of our make and model. We turned them down. They then proceeded to the next dock , where they boarded a sportfish , and said they were considering , one of those, three boats latter they left.

 

[gftrawler]

Really appreciate all of the discussion in this thread. I can appreciate both sides of the situation and has given me a lot to think about.

I think in this instance I am going to pass on looking at that specific boat, but want to use my time in the location to see some vessels. We are heading out there for a wedding so I have Saturday morning to do some looking.

Anyone have a recommendation for a good brokerage / boat yard in the Newport News, VA area ? Would like to see few options while there.

Thanks again !

 

[dhays]

I just talked with a guy trying to sell a boat for $190k ( and worth it). He was frustrated that I was the first serious potential buyer, and that many of the lookers not only wasted his time, they wanted a free ride!

In my limited experience, brokers are happy to show a boat, but there is no way the boat will leave the dock without a signed offer and deposit.

 

[Steve Jackson]

As the above says, Without an offer with a deposit there are no "FREE RIDES". Like I said in an earlier post, I made an offer, flew across the country, rented a car and paid for a hotel room for a week, to do an inspection, "SEA TRAIL", and be there when the survey was done. I found things during my inspection that were not mentioned in the survey, and the survey mentioned one item that I didn't catch during my inspection. For me thins was one of the best purchasing experiences that I have had buying a boat.

 

[Gmarr]

That TV show "Boat Buyers" makes it look that buying a boat is like buying a car, test riding right when you walk up! When I bought mine I was very cautious of wasting anyone's time and didn't even ask to turn an engine on unless it was one I was even seriously interested in. I ended up doing sea trials and surveys on same day...in the future, I wouldn't schedule sea trial same day as it was a waste of my time since the moisture readings were sky high.

 

[Seevee]

In my limited experience, brokers are happy to show a boat, but there is no way the boat will leave the dock without a signed offer and deposit.

Well, maybe....

I've NEVER put down a deposit and had rides in all of the last 10 boats I've bought, including some 6 figure ones. Deposits are against my religion, and are useless.

 

[Waywego]

If you are interested in trawlers, Virginia Yacht Brokers in Great Bridge is a good place to look.


About 10 years ago, we were in the same position that you are and were vacationing near Norfolk. I called on a weekday and explained that we were a few years away from buying and asked if they minded if we walked their docks and look at the boats. The owner spent a couple of hours with us going through his inventory and telling us about each boat and their strengths. He was a true gentleman and we had a great time with him.


We have never bought a boat from him (we stumbled upon our current boat), but I would certainly begin a search there and have sent more than a few people his way.

 

[JLD]

Been many years (about 25) since I had a boat that was purchased through a broker and those boats were sold on Galveston Bay (TX) with the boats shown at the brokers' docks.

What guesstimate that brokered boats are moored at the brokers' docks vs. the owner's dock?

Seems to me that boats moored at the broker, should be readily available for viewing. In this case, the brokers commute (drive time) to the office would be irrelevant.

For some of us, I think viewing boats at a boat show is of limited value. Personally, all of the boats that I am interested in are about 10 years old and no longer in production. Add into this that many parts of the boat, just aren't accessible during a boat show.

Same holds true to walking the docks. Most docks that I have seen are private docks, and what I really want to checkout is what is inside the boat (like access to the engine area, how usable is the bed, how much room is there in the head and/or shower stall, etc.)

Boats are a very personal decision, and I have no intention to impulse buy a boat, and want to look at several to be sure our decision will be the right decision for us. Picking out a boat (make/model) is only part of the process, the other is then finding the right boat at the right price.

And I can see that if I have a good experience with a broker that doesn't sell us a boat, we might consider using that broker as a buyer's broker when the time comes.

Jim

 

[Seevee]

I'd have no issue with seeing a broker's boat long before my decision to buy. That's their job. And I certainly don't mind telling them that I'm only in the shopping mode.

And I tell them exactly my profile. I'm not retail buying and never have been. I buy right for my purpose and want the advantage of selling down the road and want to minimize my loss. Every boat I've bought has been that way.

I've had a few brokers that have come close to selling me a boat, but something always got in the way, so I've never bought from a broker.

I will not put down a deposit with a broker. Even though they are legally bound to treat that deposit fairly, brokers DO go broke and out of business, and deposits disappear.... even with big companies. I've seen it in the real estate business a few time. I simply tell them that I'll pay expenses for a trial run or survey and they don't have to worry about a stinkin deposit. If they need a good faith effort, I'll do it with MY attorney or trustee, and have put up a 100% deposit in some cases to provoke a fast sale, and that has worked in real estate but not boats for some reason. And most brokers have no problems with my profile.

The problem with brokers is that they are time consuming and for the most part a PITA.

When I close with an individual, I like it fast and simple, and it has worked pretty well.

Some brokers are great people and I wish I could put together a deal with them, and some aren't worth a call back.

However, if one is shopping, even if the purchase is a few years off, a broker is doing a disservice to the customer and himself if he doesn't show a boat. You never know when someone will buy, and you'll never know when the broker comes back at the right time with a deal and the buyer remembers how well (or how lousy) he was treated the first time.

 

[Gordon J]

Try va yacht sales

Really appreciate all of the discussion in this thread. I can appreciate both sides of the situation and has given me a lot to think about.

I think in this instance I am going to pass on looking at that specific boat, but want to use my time in the location to see some vessels. We are heading out there for a wedding so I have Saturday morning to do some looking.

Anyone have a recommendation for a good brokerage / boat yard in the Newport News, VA area ? Would like to see few options while there.

Thanks again !

Try Virginia yacht sales in Chesapeake

 

[Peter B]

The OP wrote the following:

I am just beginning the process of looking for a boat. Realistically I am several years out from being ready to purchase, but want to get started looking at various types and sizes of boats so that I can begin to get a better idea of what I may eventually buy.​

You don't need a broker to do what he's describing. You walk docks, you drive to see boats, but you don't ask brokers to go show you boats. It doesn't take a broker to look at various types and sizes. Specific boats is irrelevant if you're several years out.

Like he said. I've had my boat on the market for 2 years now, and have had plenty of tyre kickers, but not one serious offer. They didn't quibble at the price, just that it was not what they were looking for. I would be ropable to drive 1&1/2 hrs for nothing. Fortunately I'm only 25 minutes away, and so is my broker.

PS. That broker only sold me one boat, many years ago now, (not our present one), but cheerfully and patiently allowed me to tyre kick many other boats (they were out front on the marina however), for some time before I purchased, because he knew I would in the end. I always appreciated that, and for that reason he is my only broker now. Even when I am approached via my own personal website ad, or the odd ad I put on other sales websites or in the paper, I direct any enquires through to him, and I will not do him out of his commission under any circumstances.

 

[Insequent]

Like he said. I've had my boat on the market for 2 years now, and have had plenty of tyre kickers, but not one serious offer. They didn't quibble at the price, just that it was not what they were looking for. I would be ropable to drive 1&1/2 hrs for nothing. Fortunately I'm only 25 minutes away, and so is my broker.

PS. That broker only sold me one boat, many years ago now, (not our present one), but cheerfully and patiently allowed me to tyre kick many other boats (they were out front on the marina however), for some time before I purchased, because he knew I would in the end. I always appreciated that, and for that reason he is my only broker now. Even when I am approached via my own personal website ad, or the odd ad I put on other sales websites or in the paper, I direct any enquires through to him, and I will not do him out of his commission under any circumstances.

Pete
'Not what they were looking for' = time wasting tyre-kicker, unless you were already at the boat. I have not seen or looked for your ads but my view is that if it has enough info and photos then the 'not what we were looking for' response should never arise.

Many boats advertised, particularly here in Australia, have only basic info and a handful of amateur (iPhone) pics. Not enough to allow potential buyers to shortlist or exclude because of their wishlist/checklist. This gives little option but to ask to inspect, and as with some houses you know within 2 minutes it isn't 'the one' and silently curse the incompetent broker & vendor for wasting your time by not providing accurate detailed info in their adverts. Rant over.

 

[BruceK]

Peter, right on. A broker can build potential future business every contact he makes. But in fairness, making the best of the available hours,there may be some he judges as not worth the effort.
In the end you buy the boat not the broker. There are 2 brokers I like, one in Coomera, one in Castlecrag Sydney, but they didn`t have the boat I wanted.
There is little excuse for not using good descriptive pics. On Boatsonline/Yachthub you can have 30 pics, a decent DSLR would soon pay for itself. I`m guessing brokers think if they can get to talk to you their charms will do the rest, but too often the adverts sell the sizzle rather than the substance, if they do they deserve to have their time used unproductively.
I`ve had my boat on the market,no broker. Don`t mind if it sells or not, the difficulty finding a good replacement reminds me, what I have is still good.

 

[ksanders]

I think that people that "look" at liveaboard sized boats can be broken down into two very distinct categories.

For lack of a better descriptive term I'll label them as "dreamers" and "doers"

A dreamer is just that someone that is dreaming of a boat. I think more often than we might think they are not really dreaming of a boat, they are dreaming of a way out of their particular form of drugery. They just happened upon the idea that they want to change their lives and live on a boat. Many dreamers have never owned a boat. They know nothing about boats. They are just after the preceived adventure and excitment, and sense of freedom that a large boat represents. Many are nearing retirement and are looking for a change. Often they will speak of a 5 year plan, or a 10 year plan. The reason is simple, it's easier and funner to plan something in the future, especially if you do not have the time, or resources to bring the dream to fruition today. Many dreamers have no clue what a boat really costs to buy or to maintain. Often their financial resources do not correspond to their dreams.

These dreamers are great folks. Some will end up buying a boat. Most I believe will move on to something else. If I were a broker I would be cautious with this group of people. Simply because they have such a high percentage of non boat buying. If they were vauge about their budget or timetable I'be doubbly cautious. Now if I felt that someone in this category had the financial means to actually buy a boat, and or if they were enquiring about some higher priced boats then I'd of course spend more time with them. I wonder though how many new Nordhavn's and Krogens get bought by "dreamers" that have never owned a boat? They have a dream, and some money, and buy a boat. Hmmm

The "doers" are the other category. These are folks that are much more likely to actually buy a typical liveaboard sized boat. These are folks that probably have a smaller boat and want to move up, or from a different platform (IE sailboats) The doers may not know much about large boats but they have spent enough time in a boat to know they like the lifestyle.

These are the folks that when they start looking at boats they are probably going to buy one. They may want to look at several different styles of boats so they can figure out which one fits their needs, but in the end I think they have a fairly high probability of actually buying a boat.

The best "doer" for a broker is probably someone that already owns a liveaboard size boat and simply wants a different one. Maybe bigger, or longer range, etc... My money says that time time spent with these folks would end up in a high percentage of closed sales.

 

[Peter B]

Pete
'Not what they were looking for' = time wasting tyre-kicker, unless you were already at the boat. I have not seen or looked for your ads but my view is that if it has enough info and photos then the 'not what we were looking for' response should never arise.

Brian, you are spot on re that. Actually, that is why I am down to one broker, who is not actually based at our marina, but not too far away. As you say, good descriptions and photos should have avoided the 'Not what they were looking for' brigade, but the broker actually at the same marina who I had her also listed with, not only kept describing her as an aft cabin clipper in their ads, when even the photos made clear she was not, but folk believed what they read, rather than what they saw. However, to make matters worse, because of that confusion, they kept telling enquirers she was sold, when she wasn't, because even they got confused by the 'aft cabin' descriptor, and it was one of those that had sold. So I took her away from them.