Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 04-27-2009, 02:41 PM   #21
Guru
 
timjet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,905
RE: Boat selection opinions

It's a FL boat, the teak always looks rough.
__________________
Advertisement

timjet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2009, 02:46 PM   #22
TF Site Team
 
Baker's Avatar
 
City: League City, Tx
Country: Texas
Vessel Model: Carver 356
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,630
RE: Boat selection opinions

Walt, that is just ignorant broker listing BS. There is a lot of mistakes in that listing.

Daddyo, Europa might have been "coined" by GB, but it has become a general term to describe a style of sedan. Just like Crescent wrench....Crescent is a brand.....it is really just an "adjustable wrench.

Tim, I called on the boat. The broker is under the impression that the boat will be taken off the market by the owner. I didn't ask why as I didn't feel it was my business. But that boat would be a steal at that price. I also googled Heritage west indian and noted he had listed it "by owner" for a price of $25k!!! Anyway, I don't think it will matter as it doesn't appear it will be for sale anymore.
__________________

Baker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2009, 05:02 AM   #23
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,525
RE: Boat selection opinions

" noted he had listed it "by owner" for a price of $25k!!!"

Lots of boats in FL are $25K, the question is how much do you value hundreds (perhaps athousand) of hours of your time , and how versed in vessel rebuilding are you?
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2010, 09:46 PM   #24
Guru
 
Egregious's Avatar
 
City: Sunset Beach, NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Polly P.
Vessel Model: Monk 36
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 554
RE: Boat selection opinions

Quote:
Daddyo wrote:

Europa is a term specific to Grand Banks but is widely misused to describe the extended flybridge sedans of other makes. Keep in mind the huge difference between the 34 and the 36 is the second stateroom. The prices I've seen for forward deck removal and glass work is about 5k.
The "Europa" style has been a deal breaker for me because you need to go up a ladder to get to the fly bridge.* On a sundeck or trunk cabin you typically go up two steps to the sundeck and two or three to the fly bridge.* With a Europa there is a ladder and sometimes a hatch or hole to get through.* It is a deal breaker because I can't bring two cocktails and a plate of crackers and sardines to The Admiral up a ladder, and I can do it easily via steps w/ railings.

Also, Marine Trader isn't considered to be built as well as some other boats like GB etc.* Blown on matting or core below the waterline, I'm not sure.* But considered sub-standard my some surveyors.

*
Egregious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2010, 09:57 PM   #25
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
RE: Boat selection opinions

Quote:
Egregious wrote:

The "Europa" style has been a deal breaker for me because you need to go up a ladder to get to the fly bridge.*
Depends on the size and make*of the boat.* On larger Europa (or Europa-style if you prefer) boats it's not uncommon to have a companionway up to the boat deck.* But in the 36'- 42'*range, yes, a ladder is pretty typical.* However I have seen some that have a sort of a stairway-ladder.* The slant and tread size is such that you can walk up it like a set of stairs even though the construction is not as bulky and space-demanding as a proper companionway.* On the ones I've seen you could certainly go up top with both hands full unless the water was rough.

*
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2010, 10:10 PM   #26
Guru
 
Egregious's Avatar
 
City: Sunset Beach, NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Polly P.
Vessel Model: Monk 36
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 554
RE: Boat selection opinions

Quote:
Marin wrote:


Egregious wrote:

The "Europa" style has been a deal breaker for me because you need to go up a ladder to get to the fly bridge.*
Depends on the size and make*of the boat.* On larger Europa (or Europa-style if you prefer) boats it's not uncommon to have a companionway up to the boat deck.* But in the 36'- 42'*range, yes, a ladder is pretty typical.* However I have seen some that have a sort of a stairway-ladder.* The slant and tread size is such that you can walk up it like a set of stairs even though the construction is not as bulky and space-demanding as a proper companionway.* On the ones I've seen you could certainly go up top with both hands full unless the water was rough.

*

The one we chartered was a 36' GB*Europa.* Great for a couple, but getting up and down from the fly bridge was a major pain.* The sucker was heavy and handled well in heavy seas, but not so much in a following sea probably because of my refusal to slow down...

*
Egregious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2010, 10:38 PM   #27
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
RE: Boat selection opinions

Quote:
Egregious wrote:

The sucker was heavy and handled well in heavy seas, but not so much in a following sea probably because of my refusal to slow down...



Your speed had nothing to do with it (unless you could have added enough power to semi-plane your way faster than the waves).* Slaba*sed boats like the GB get shoved all over the place in a following sea--- it's the nature of the beast.* The slower you go the worse it gets.*

For rough water work it's not the kind of boat you want (nor is any flat-transomed boat).* Which is why boats like GBs, CHBs, etc. are*coastal cruisers, not open-ocean boats.** For that you want a double-ender or at least something with a rounded stern like a Willard, Krogen, Nordhavn, etc.

*
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2010, 10:46 PM   #28
Guru
 
koliver's Avatar
 
City: Saltspring Island
Country: BC, canada
Vessel Name: Retreat
Vessel Model: C&L 44
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,170
RE: Boat selection opinions

I haven't had the pleasure of a round stern in a following sea, so I don't know how much better they are than a square stern. I have been in the biggest following seas the Georgia Strait can build up in my squared off trawler without any of what Marin describes, so I presume that would only occur offshore where the seas can get really big. For coastal cruising, where you get to wait out really bad weather and its accompanying big seas, the choice of stern configuration is usually made for other reasons. If you want a vessel for serious offshore work, then consider the possibility of better handling with a rounded stern. I really don't think it would be a priority for most. Iwould want a sail boat for serious offshore work in any event.
koliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2010, 11:10 PM   #29
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
Boat selection opinions

Everyone I know with a flat-butt trawler-type boat--- GB, CHB, you name it, single or twin--- bitches heavily about coming back into Bellingham Bay on a windy day in a following sea, and the Georgia Strait can make Bellingham Bay on a bad day look like a millpond. So I don't know why your boat--- which looks like it has the same flat, broad-a*s transom as all these others--- should be any different. Maybe you go fast enough to outrun the waves.....? Or maybe it weighs so much that the seas can't push it around much?

Our GB36 weighs almost 28,000 pounds fully loaded but four to six foot following or quartering waves in Bellingham Bay keep me busy as hell at the wheel as they seem to do everyone else with this configuration of boat.* People I know with autopilots say they have to turn them off and steer by hand because the autopilot can't*keep up with*what the following waves are doing to the boat.* Perhaps one difference is that the waves in Bellingham Bay are extremely close together and very steep regardless of their height.* Maybe they're much*more rolling out on the Strait and so don't push a boat around as much--- I've only been on the Strait on relatively nice days.

On the other hand, people like Carey with his lobsterboat simply have to add power and get on up to 12 to 15 knots or more*and they have no real problems at all.

-- Edited by Marin on Thursday 10th of June 2010 11:16:19 PM
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2010, 08:16 AM   #30
Guru
 
koliver's Avatar
 
City: Saltspring Island
Country: BC, canada
Vessel Name: Retreat
Vessel Model: C&L 44
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,170
RE: Boat selection opinions

Marin:
Probably weight and speed combined, 7.5 to 8kn, 44000 lbs.
I have a great set of pictures taken when I was single handing going up past Texada in a 40kn SE blow. Put the autopilot on and went to the stern where my inflatable on a short tether was trying to surf up beside the boat on 7 ft waves. No slewing that the autopilot couldn't handle, no burying of the transom. the waterline across the stern is at the swimgrid in calm conditions. In rough, it was moving up and down another 6 inches max. So if I have to go out in a blow like that I much prefer going downwind. Going a rt angles to it is impossible. All the furniture wants to slide side to side, all the lockers want to empty onto the floor, and the dog gets sick. Pounding into it takes a lot of energy. Last Sept, tried to get to Victoria from Sidney Island agaist a 40 kn blow for the Labour Day Wooden Boat thing. I could take it, the boat could, but neither wife nor dog could as the waves were very steep and close together. Turning around was a challenge, but once we got it on the stern the crew and the boat were much happier.
koliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2010, 09:15 AM   #31
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,712
RE: Boat selection opinions

Marin,There's more to it than just the configuration of the stern above the WL. For example if the stern has high deadrise or (V) below the WL. That can be, for all practical purposes, almost as effective as a pointy end boat or AS effective as a full rounded stern like my Willard. The opposite is, of course true that a really flat stern has stern sea troubles and if the boat isn't full at the chines fwd (as is the case w the old Mainship 34) the stern quartering seas push the stern up from windward and fwd (downwind) while there's little stability fwd to stop or dampen the induced roll. Several M34 owners have confirmed the obvious w me but the flipside is that the M34 is probably a dream come true bucking head seas and it's also probably very efficient at 12 to 20 knots.


Eric Henning
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2010, 10:51 AM   #32
Guru
 
Tom.B's Avatar
 
City: Cary, NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Skinny Dippin'
Vessel Model: Navigator 4200 Classic
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,153
Boat selection opinions

We own a 35' Senator Futura with a stern thruster and a single Perkin 135. At this point, there is very little in the same class or price range that I have seen that I would be remotely interested in trading it for. It's the perfect boat for two. Interestingly enough, Senator isn't a custom yacht, but I've never seen any two that are alike. Ours is a rare galley-down. The V-berth is really just for people from Munchkin Land. There is no forward stateroom per se and just the single aft stateroom head. It REALLY feels like more boat than 35' because with the galley down, the salon is nothing but living space. Also, with just the single head and single Perkins, maintenance and repair costs are quite low. Plus there is a good amount of room around the engine to work.

Eleven months ago, we paid $75,000 for it, it was on the higher end of the scale, but the previous owner was very good at keeping her up and it was worth it based on the work he had done.

As for the stern thruster... I like it a lot. Boats drive from the stern anyway. All stern thrusters do is enhance that maneuverability you already expect. I have as much, if not more, maneuverability as a single-screw with a bow thruster. I also don't consider it as much of a crutch as a bow thruster. Still, if I fell into a pile of money, I would consider getting a bow thruster as well. Just to show off at the marina

Look out for spongy decks (PO has replaced them all). The hull will have blisters (we have loads of them), but as long as they are cosmetic, there shouldn't be a problem. Your surveyor will be able to confirm that for you. We aren't afraid of them, but will monitor for years to come. We also have a teak sundeck floor. Pretty sure we'll have issues with this in the future. We'll deal with that when the time comes.

Please, let me know if you have any questions. I'm glad to tell you what I know. It's a lot of boat without alot of the problems of bigger boats in it's class. I, of course, highly recommend one.


-- Edited by GonzoF1 on Friday 11th of June 2010 10:57:31 AM
Tom.B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2010, 10:09 AM   #33
Guru
 
Egregious's Avatar
 
City: Sunset Beach, NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Polly P.
Vessel Model: Monk 36
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 554
RE: Boat selection opinions

re: following seas in GB Europa, it was pretty big the one day I had the most trouble.* We actually rang the ship's bell at one point during our trip, so it was quite rough.


re: what to watch out for, everyone I've spoken to says that sooner or later you will need new fuel tanks.* A really old boat that hasn't had them replaced will need to have this done sooner or later.
Egregious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2010, 11:41 AM   #34
TF Site Team
 
Baker's Avatar
 
City: League City, Tx
Country: Texas
Vessel Model: Carver 356
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,630
RE: Boat selection opinions

Quote:
nomadwilly wrote:

Marin,
There's more to it than just the configuration of the stern above the WL. For example if the stern has high deadrise or (V) below the WL. That can be, for all practical purposes, almost as effective as a pointy end boat or AS effective as a full rounded stern like my Willard. The opposite is, of course true that a really flat stern has stern sea troubles and if the boat isn't full at the chines fwd (as is the case w the old Mainship 34) the stern quartering seas push the stern up from windward and fwd (downwind) while there's little stability fwd to stop or dampen the induced roll. Several M34 owners have confirmed the obvious w me but the flipside is that the M34 is probably a dream come true bucking head seas and it's also probably very efficient at 12 to 20 knots.


Eric Henning

*
I will echo this. *The KK42 is a good example. *It has a square transom....BUT below the water line she is very curvy. *To put it another way...if you "continued the lines" out into a 48ish foot boat, it would be a rounded stern boat. *They just cut it off a little "early"/shortat 42ft.
Baker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2010, 04:15 AM   #35
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,525
RE: Boat selection opinions

The shape of the stern may or may not ne a continuation of the lines from below.

A genuine round stern would be a huge blessing as it would allow the stern to be used , as a tug does, in close manuvering against walls and pilings .

A transom has the advantage that it could fold down (like a pickup truck).

This would allow easy access to a dink , and make a deep after deck far more fun to enjoy closer to the water.

With some planning the dink could simply be driven in board to transport it in inshore waters , as well as serve as a "Get Home" power source.

The worst style "Colin Archer" , the lines do continue from the under body which nlimits the hull speed to SL 1.25 instead of the more common SL 1.34, no extra fuel use at slow speeds , but big waves and fuel burn at hull speed.


There is also an argument that the slower speeds and extra energy passed to the following seas may CAUSE them to break.
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2010, 08:16 AM   #36
Guru
 
Keith's Avatar
 
Vessel Name: Anastasia III
Vessel Model: Krogen 42
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,716
RE: Boat selection opinions

Here's my stern shape on the Krogen 42.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	dcp_0522.jpg
Views:	48
Size:	165.9 KB
ID:	527  
Keith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2010, 09:09 AM   #37
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,712
Boat selection opinions

Hey Keith,Thats what a trawler stern should look like. I'm surprised you have that much transom below the WL but if most of the trawlers (Nordic, CHB, GB and many more) were to have sterns like this I would be like a kid in a candy store. Marin would be needing only one of his cherished Lehmans, most others would need half as much power as well and all would behave much better in following seas. At least there's a few trawlers w proper sterns or I'd need to build another ULD boat for cruising Alaska. Here's my Willard stern, a rather extreme deep displacement stern that I wish was more like Keith's Krogen. Any more respectable ass ends out there?


Eric Henning


-- Edited by nomadwilly on Friday 18th of June 2010 09:58:02 AM
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	all to 12-15-09 618.jpg
Views:	56
Size:	248.5 KB
ID:	2213  
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2010, 09:54 AM   #38
Guru
 
Tom.B's Avatar
 
City: Cary, NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Skinny Dippin'
Vessel Model: Navigator 4200 Classic
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,153
RE: Boat selection opinions

Quote:
nomadwilly wrote:Any more respectable ass ends out there?
Beyonce and Jennifer Lopez come to mind.
Tom.B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2010, 10:16 AM   #39
Guru
 
Gulf Comanche's Avatar
 
City: Baton Rouge, Louisiana
Country: U.S.A.
Vessel Name: Old School
Vessel Model: 38' Trawler custom built by Hike Metal Products
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 799
RE: Boat selection opinions

Here's a couple, don't know if it's respectable or not.
Mike
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	oldschoolboat.jpg
Views:	45
Size:	73.9 KB
ID:	2214   Click image for larger version

Name:	dscn4788.jpg
Views:	54
Size:	238.1 KB
ID:	2215  
Gulf Comanche is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2010, 01:25 PM   #40
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
RE: Boat selection opinions

Quote:
nomadwilly wrote:


Marin would be needing only one of his cherished Lehmans...
I'd only need one engine but it sure as hell wouldn't be a POS Lehman......

*
__________________

Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
34' LRC opinions knbmabry Californian 7 04-12-2012 10:28 AM
Opinions KJ General Discussion 19 12-20-2011 09:17 AM
Radar Selection Just Bob Electrical and Electronics & Navigation 14 04-19-2011 05:06 PM
Selene opinions? Max Simmons General Discussion 1 04-23-2009 01:02 PM
Selection of first vs last posts Dark Side How To Use The Forum, Site News & Account Concerns 2 01-13-2008 12:19 PM




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:23 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012