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Old 03-05-2013, 06:46 PM   #1
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Boat Selection Game - Round 5

Last October I posted three rounds of a hypothetical boat selection game. I have since been tearing through VUP and become a Diesel Duck addict. I have come up with a couple more scenarios that might be interesting.

Here's Round 1: $500k Circumnavigating Couple
Detailed Rules of the game were presented in Round 1.

Round 2: $300k Great Loop Couple w/ 1 Child

Round 3: $175k Weekend Family Cruiser

Round 4: $250k Circumnavigating Couple

Basically, the rules of the game are like this. A hypothetical cruising situation will be presented. Players will then reply to the post by offering which boat they would choose based upon "-ility" factors such as reliability, maintainability, durability, affordability (acquisition costs are assumed equal, so this deals with sustaining costs such as fuel, insurance, etc), suitability (for the situation presented - draft as one example), layout, aesthetics, etc. The more justification provided to explain which boat the player would choose, the better. If the details provided in the scenario or the boat options are not considered to be sufficient, the player should share the assumptions made and move on to the description of which boat is the best option for the scenario presented. Of course there are no right or wrong answers - just the hope that by sharing the justification many could learn from those who have had to pick a boat.

So here's round 5: Backyard Looper for a Couple w/ two kids
What boat would you build in your backyard to complete a one year Loop with spouse and two kids?

Looking forward to learning from the responses!
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Old 03-09-2013, 11:24 AM   #2
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Ok, so I'll throw out a couple options.

Obviously there are the Ducks by Buehler:
Stock Plans

There this one that was recently posted by someone:
Passagemaker Lite 46plus - Tad Roberts' fast, seaworthy, fuel-efficient long-range passagemaker

I would think considerations for a homebuilt Great Loop Boat would be ease of construction as well as the sea keeping required by the Great Loop - a trip that I know can be accomplished in a number of different types of vessels depending on one's fortitude. So a hard chine I'm thinking (like on the Duck)??

I'm a big fan of the Ducks - but of course ocean crossing range wouldn't necessarily be needed for a Great Loop trip.

Other thoughts/designs?
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Old 03-09-2013, 02:51 PM   #3
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Ok, so I'll throw out a couple options.

Obviously there are the Ducks by Buehler:
Stock Plans

There this one that was recently posted by someone:
Passagemaker Lite 46plus - Tad Roberts' fast, seaworthy, fuel-efficient long-range passagemaker

I would think considerations for a homebuilt Great Loop Boat would be ease of construction as well as the sea keeping required by the Great Loop - a trip that I know can be accomplished in a number of different types of vessels depending on one's fortitude. So a hard chine I'm thinking (like on the Duck)??

I'm a big fan of the Ducks - but of course ocean crossing range wouldn't necessarily be needed for a Great Loop trip.

Other thoughts/designs?
Having watched Loopers passing through Michigan on their way to Chicago for a number of years, I can tell you that they favor sundeck boats by a wide margin. So which homebuilt designer offers a sundeck?
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Old 03-09-2013, 03:34 PM   #4
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As a reality check the average 35' boat will take the average home builder about 7 years to complete, and take $70k+ in materials out of the home budget. So by the time the boat is complete the kids are gone and you no longer have to build a boat for them.....but they do still require help with collage tuition.....so put the boat up for sale.......

I'm currently working with a fellow heading for a retirement cruise of the GL.....she'll be a 28' electric powered low speed cruiser, about 8000 pounds displacement (max) and 1/3 the man hours of a 35' to build.
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Old 03-09-2013, 05:25 PM   #5
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I like the diesel ducks as well, but they would be horrible on the great loop. You don't need or want that type of draft. Get a second hand production boat and go NOW. You will probably sell it for what you paid, after the trip.
Don't over think it. You are not crossing oceans on the loop. You are doing a string of day trips with lots of nights aboard.
A 79 year old gentleman did it in an 18' AF4 outboard boat. He is not an extremist by any means, just a guy who wanted to see the country within his means.
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Old 03-09-2013, 06:20 PM   #6
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I guess not a lot of folks have experience with 'home built' boats. So I'd suggest refurbing an old boat...like I did.

After spending several family outings on Big Duck sometimes with 4 adults a two year old and two dogs, I can say I'd do the loop on my boat with wife and 2 kids.

A fellow boater bought a boat like mine last year and will have her ready for the water by Memorial day.
One More Time Around: Another Duck

I believe Jerry paid less than $5,000 for his boat. I paid over twice that but mine was in the water with a new motor.

Why would you want to start from scratch?
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Old 03-09-2013, 06:27 PM   #7
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Why would you want to start from scratch?
There ya go

There are a couple of reasons actually.....

1) What you have your heart set on does not already exist. This is very rare but occasionally pops up....like the gentleman wanting an electric cruiser.

2) You just really want to do it.....
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Old 03-09-2013, 08:34 PM   #8
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A good shipyard can bang out a diesel duck hull in 2 to 3 weeks with CAD plans. Take that home and install everything else is the best way to do a home built. I almost went that way until my boat showed up and the guy told me make an offer. I did for the price of the hull. I bought it with out setting a foot on it and Im getting close too being done after 10 years for cash in hand. The boat has never not been useable during this endeavor.
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Old 03-09-2013, 11:52 PM   #9
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I recommend you look closely at classic designed Tollycraft FRP boats.

1970 to mid 90's from 34' to 48'. Find one in good condition and maybe do a little more to it... then, you will be on your way with a comfortable, nearly bullet proof, and sea worthy craft for years of enjoyment. After years of gentle/thoughtful use, if you want and have kept your Tolly in good condition, sell that baby at darn near what you paid for her. Tollycraft is the best production boats I've ever experienced!

Good luck... and... Happy Boating Daze! - Art

There are many examples in Wachtworld. Be sure to look through the pages... some Tolly's have very reasonable prices and with the marine sales market so soft it is surprising what you can offer and the seller will accept! Cheers!!

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Old 03-10-2013, 01:00 PM   #10
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There ya go

There are a couple of reasons actually.....

1) What you have your heart set on does not already exist. This is very rare but occasionally pops up....like the gentleman wanting an electric cruiser.

2) You just really want to do it.....
Exactly! So let me modify/clarify the game: so suppose you were miserly in a George Buehler sort of way and wanted to build a Comfortable Loop boat using nearly only cash in hand. What design would you choose? (ignore the family or timing considerations). Again, these are hypothetical situations to generate discussion from the seasoned captains out there to help educate us wharf walkers about what makes a boat a good choice for a given mission at a given price point.
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Old 03-10-2013, 01:09 PM   #11
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A good shipyard can bang out a diesel duck hull in 2 to 3 weeks with CAD plans. Take that home and install everything else is the best way to do a home built.
After reading this blog cover to cover (http://www.buildingkoloa.blogspot.com/) the option you describe has really grabbed hold of my day dreams and won't let go. (this is slightly off topic as my boat selection game is meant to be hypothetical, and here I'm drifting into my actual long term plans). I'd like to do circumnavigation during retirement. This gives me20 years to get the boat done - never to soon to start planning!

Some questions: what would a steel DD hull (complete with tanks and paint) run a guy? Is there a $/displacement rule of thumb?
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Old 03-10-2013, 01:12 PM   #12
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A good shipyard can bang out a diesel duck hull in 2 to 3 weeks with CAD plans.
Know any good shipyards in St Louis? :/
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Old 03-10-2013, 03:27 PM   #13
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Exactly! So let me modify/clarify the game: so suppose you were miserly in a George Buehler sort of way and wanted to build a Comfortable Loop boat using nearly only cash in hand. What design would you choose?
What's the best mpg in a full displacement over 40', with 2 staterooms, and draft <4'?
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Old 03-10-2013, 04:02 PM   #14
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Know any good shipyards in St Louis? :/
There's a fairly current list on this web site. Great Lakes are probably your best bet..easy enough to run it down the rivers to St Loius. Not sure if Vinette (Escanaba, MI) is still building boats, but they used to produce some nice steel trawler style hulls. There's a custom steel trawler in our marina that I believe was built by Fraser in Superior Wisconsin.

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Old 03-10-2013, 04:03 PM   #15
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Exactly! So let me modify/clarify the game: so suppose you were miserly in a George Buehler sort of way and wanted to build a Comfortable Loop boat using nearly only cash in hand. What design would you choose? (ignore the family or timing considerations). Again, these are hypothetical situations to generate discussion from the seasoned captains out there to help educate us wharf walkers about what makes a boat a good choice for a given mission at a given price point.
My understanding of the Loop cruise is that it's 95%(?) inland (very protected) waterway......About the longest open stretch is in Lake Michigan. For this I would look seriously at Phil Bolger's Windemere design, all plywood, four-stroke outboard power, about 30' by 8' and around 9000 pounds on the trailer. Probably 1/4 the time and money required to build any DD.
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Old 03-10-2013, 05:41 PM   #16
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We had a member(ben2go) posting here with similar plans to do the loop in a 27' Jeff Spira design. No kids just he and his wife. Rather than use an outboard as many do he was going to have Jeff modify the plan to accept a diesel stern drive.
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Old 03-10-2013, 06:59 PM   #17
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Windemere would do the loop very easily and economically, as would several other Bolger boats.
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Old 03-10-2013, 09:52 PM   #18
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There's a fairly current list on this web site. Great Lakes are probably your best bet..easy enough to run it down the rivers to St Loius. Not sure if Vinette (Escanaba, MI) is still building boats, but they used to produce some nice steel trawler style hulls. There's a custom steel trawler in our marina that I believe was built by Fraser in Superior Wisconsin.

U.S. Shipbuilding History, Shipbuilding Statistics, Tim Colton
Thanks!
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Old 03-11-2013, 06:06 AM   #19
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A good shipyard can bang out a diesel duck hull in 2 to 3 weeks with CAD plans.
Anyone have a Rule of Thumb for what a steel hull would cost? I suppose it'd depend on where you had the yard stop, right?
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Old 03-11-2013, 08:22 AM   #20
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About 50000 was a very rough quote about 10 years ago. I would only consider aluminum for a new hull build. I have owned both and sure miss the aluminum hull. The lack of rust is priceless!!!!!
All you have do is ask anyone that has drilled a hole in steel and not cleaned up every little metal filing only to find rust stains the next day.
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