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Old 09-14-2016, 09:29 AM   #81
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You are so lucky you don't live in Dade County or Southeast FL! They regularly run TV ads where purported victims (with no signs of injury whatsoever) scream testimonials that "Shyster XYZ got us $X,XXX,XXX". And if you don't watch TV, that is okay because road signs are plastered with the same claims. And there are a legion of Shyster XYZ's waiting for you to call with your injury.

Disclaimer - no longer live in Southeast Florida.
Donsan,

Yes, they are everywhere. I doubt they could win against an uninsured defendant unless they proved negligence. If they are insured, the insurance company usually takes the cheapest way out, which is often settling with the plaintiff, and giving reason for more frivolous law suits.

We've all seen the ridiculous settlements and awards. Do you thinks any of these get that far if there's no money to collect? A good line of defense is to be broke, or in FL, don't own anything personally. And just live a clean life, avoid the high risk area.... and if one want "personal" protection, liability is pretty cheap.

Also, there's a LOT of people that are in the business of frivolous claims, I know a few. Used to do business with one of them and quit when I found out what he really did. His wife faked a fall onto a friends boat. She was not invited on the boat, and essentially was a trespasser. However, the insurance company settled with her just to have her go away. So wrong! Had my friend not been insured, the frivolous lawyer would have not taken the case.
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Old 09-14-2016, 11:41 AM   #82
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Seevee:

I have a 41' President trawler that fits your needs very nicely for $ 70k. The boat has done the loop a few times and I have personally done the northern half. I purchased the boat in Michigan and piloted it east to southern Ct 5 yrs ago. It has the diesel sipping ( 3 GPH at 8 kts) ford lehmans with 3300 hrs, genny, autopilot, engine synchronizer, twin driving stations, twin state rooms, full salon, diesel fireplace, Newport Dickinson propane fireplace, 10' RIB inflatable with a 2016 4 stroke 20 HP merc outboard. I would even help tag a long with the delivery as the previous owner helped me. What a great way to learn about a boat.
Send me a PM if interested.
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Old 09-14-2016, 12:18 PM   #83
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Here is a link with some good data on the great loop.
How much clearance you need, fuel range and routes and how to do it on way less costs. Even has a section on the 1st page explaining why you need at least minimum insurance to get into marinas along the way.


Cruising on a frugat budget
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Old 09-14-2016, 12:32 PM   #84
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Here is a link with some good data on the great loop.
How much clearance you need, fuel range and routes and how to do it on way less costs. Even has a section on the 1st page explaining why you need at least minimum insurance to get into marinas along the way.


Cruising on a frugat budget
I love reading Captain John, but do keep a couple of things in mind. It's great for giving you a flavor of the loop and for giving you minimum requirements. However, his thoughts on boats to do the loop are very much not mainstream and not what most loopers would choose. He's gone from enjoying the loop to proving how cheaply he can do it, it seems, and his ideal boat the last I heard would be a small sailboat without the sails.

One other comment. His routing is typical and most loopers try to cover the least distance possible. They miss everything not right on the shortest line then. Keep in mind there are a million ways to do the loop and more places to see than you possibly can. Don't make the objective "doing the loop", but make it seeing the beauty of the world that can be seen while doing the loop.
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Old 09-14-2016, 03:03 PM   #85
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Go to the "Great Loop Association" website and you'll see that a huge variety of size and type of boats have made the trip. There are many "one and done" boats for sale from past loopers. Good luck
Although I am not a member, I suggest joining the group if you are serious about doing the Great Loop. The folks there have done it or are doing it or considering it. Folks who have actually done it are in a good position to help you select a boat.

Also, there are several books written by people who have done the Great Loop. These are a good read. Find them on amazon.com or your favorite book store. The book store may have to order them though.

You and some others talk about speed. Moving a fairly large boat fast is very expensive and inefficient. Recently I read a review of a boat and the range was four times longer at displacement speed than at about three times displacement speed. That's my personal experience as well except I can't do three or even two times displacement speed.

If you are in a hurry, I suggest driving or flying.
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Old 09-14-2016, 03:22 PM   #86
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Although I am not a member, I suggest joining the group if you are serious about doing the Great Loop. The folks there have done it or are doing it or considering it. Folks who have actually done it are in a good position to help you select a boat.

Also, there are several books written by people who have done the Great Loop. These are a good read. Find them on amazon.com or your favorite book store. The book store may have to order them though.

You and some others talk about speed. Moving a fairly large boat fast is very expensive and inefficient. Recently I read a review of a boat and the range was four times longer at displacement speed than at about three times displacement speed. That's my personal experience as well except I can't do three or even two times displacement speed.

If you are in a hurry, I suggest driving or flying.
Agreed there are many excellent books and the more you read the more different ways to do it you'll pick up on. One will tell you the only way to go is a Catamaran, another will tell you a 27' boat.

As to speed, we did it with speed. The disadvantage is cost. The advantage is it allows you to see more and go more places. Most do not choose to go fast. Now, size of boat is less important to cost than is size of motor. If you're going at displacement speed or just under, the longer boat will have a faster displacement speed.

We found many loop boats on Kindle. Just do a search and they'll come up.
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Old 09-14-2016, 05:49 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by BandB View Post

I love reading Captain John, but do keep a couple of things in mind. It's great for giving you a flavor of the loop and for giving you minimum requirements. However, his thoughts on boats to do the loop are very much not mainstream and not what most loopers would choose. He's gone from enjoying the loop to proving how cheaply he can do it, it seems, and his ideal boat the last I heard would be a small sailboat without the sails.
I met a Captain John disciple a few weeks ago who was 50 miles from completing the loop on a 45 year old Columbia 26 sailboat. He bought the boat for $1,000, threw two 10hp outboards on it - one for a spare - and off he went, towing an inflatable. He took the mast, but only sailed for a brief stretch in the Chesapeake.
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Old 09-14-2016, 05:53 PM   #88
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I met a Captain John disciple a few weeks ago who was 50 miles from completing the loop on a 45 year old Columbia 26 sailboat. He bought the boat for $1,000, threw two 10hp outboards on it - one for a spare - and off he went, towing an inflatable. He took the mast, but only sailed for a brief stretch in the Chesapeake.
It can be done and enjoyed by some. Captain John proves how little it can be done for and each time he seems to try to do it for even less. The answer for most people is somewhere between his method and ours, more moderate than either.
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Old 09-15-2016, 05:26 AM   #89
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The key question about the boat , is , are you comfortable?
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Old 09-15-2016, 01:01 PM   #90
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Lots of good ideas.

As for boat shopping, I'll probably raise my ante to perhaps $200k. I might find the boat that would fit our needs for a lot less, but I'm a bit nervous of too old of a boat. While it might make sense to get one that's 10 to 15 years old, after they have depreciated a bunch, but still have modern options.

I don't like old things that can break and you can't find parts to fix them.

Some of the old ones are great, and some, if not most have an "old feeling" to them which I don't want. I feel a bargain might be an older (perhaps 20 to 25 years) high quality boat that has good bones that someone took the time and dollars to refurbish it into a modern looking and more comfortable boat.

I have joined the Great Loop Assn, seems like a wealth of info.

Still boat shopping....
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Old 09-15-2016, 02:06 PM   #91
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"I don't like old things that can break and you can't find parts to fix them."

Except for the power package , old has no problems.

Things like maceriators FW pumps HW heaters are cheap enough to toss, as the newer version usually has up grades.

Old superb items like quality mechanical toilets can still easily be rebuilt.

Style of the interior is one only you can decide .
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Old 09-15-2016, 06:44 PM   #92
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"I don't like old things that can break and you can't find parts to fix them."

Except for the power package , old has no problems.

Things like maceriators FW pumps HW heaters are cheap enough to toss, as the newer version usually has up grades.

Old superb items like quality mechanical toilets can still easily be rebuilt.

Style of the interior is one only you can decide .
FF

Very good points.
But if one considers what old parts can fail, we can look beyond just the power package.

Gensets are expensive, but usually one that's in good condition runs very reliable. My experience is with Koehler, which I perceive as one of the best. Replacing them is very expensive, and and OH is enough.
Air condition units are another. And I'd bet that much over 20 years is a problem, but correct me if I'm wrong.
Now, trim tabs, filtering systems, electrical wiring, inverters and chargers, heads and the sanitary systems, thru hulls, strainers, etc.
Now, take the galley, old fridge, microwaves are pretty bullet proof as are stoves, cabinetry, water systems... pumps, heater, etc....
Now take the furniture... old breaks, deteriorates, gets out of date and may not be comfortable. As do the dressers, storage cabinets, tables, etc.
And don't forget the canvas, exterior seats, eisenglass.....
And windlass, lines, fenders, thrusters.....

And I've just probably hit the surface.
All of the above for a full refurbishment would cost ???

Now, still looking for comments and advise so what you say is appreciated. I've done MINOR boat refurb... engines, outdrives, canvas, seating, genset, water heater, tilt, trim and radios... and it's been tens of thousands on little bitty boats. So with even a small trawler in the mid 30s could be quite expensive.

Correct me if I'm wrong....
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Old 09-15-2016, 06:47 PM   #93
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Sure...everything is expensive, even if you do your own work.

It's all about what you want and how to pay for it, up front or a bit at a time.

For some, a bit at a time is the only way they can afford it.
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Old 09-15-2016, 09:12 PM   #94
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Sure...everything is expensive, even if you do your own work.

It's all about what you want and how to pay for it, up front or a bit at a time.

For some, a bit at a time is the only way they can afford it.
I'd prefer all at once, with minimal issues in the future. Like I said, I'm not looking for a project. However, with known issues that are easy to solve with known costs and time, I'd have no issue. I just don't want to rebuild a boat (or anything else).....
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Old 09-16-2016, 07:13 AM   #95
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Gensets are expensive, but usually one that's in good condition runs very reliable. My experience is with Koehler, which I perceive as one of the best. Replacing them is very expensive, and and OH is enough.
Air condition units are another. And I'd bet that much over 20 years is a problem, but correct me if I'm wrong.
Now, trim tabs, filtering systems, electrical wiring, inverters and chargers, heads and the sanitary systems, thru hulls, strainers, etc.
Now, take the galley, old fridge, microwaves are pretty bullet proof as are stoves, cabinetry, water systems... pumps, heater, etc....
Now take the furniture... old breaks, deteriorates, gets out of date and may not be comfortable. As do the dressers, storage cabinets, tables, etc.
And don't forget the canvas, exterior seats, eisenglass.....
And windlass, lines, fenders, thrusters.....

And I've just probably hit the surface.
All of the above for a full refurbishment would cost ???

Much of that is about on-going service/maintenance. Fridges, air conditioners, water pumps, microwaves, windlasses, thrusters, for example, crap out... but generally there's no need to replace until that happens.

Not necessarily a big project to replace individual stuff like that, and then overall cost more often depends on whether you do the labor or hire it done.

Eisenglass and canvas bits wear out over time, but cleaning the clears when they need it is normal maintenance. Construction in the first place can matter; Tenara thread, for example, would general make a bimini last longer.

Lines and fenders and such are more like consumables, similar to engine oil and filters and so forth. Use 'em, replace 'em as needed.

Yes, a genset is a bigger deal, but then good ones run forever with good service... (knock wood)... similar to good mains (knocking, again)...

-Chris
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Old 09-16-2016, 09:30 AM   #96
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Much of that is about on-going service/maintenance. Fridges, air conditioners, water pumps, microwaves, windlasses, thrusters, for example, crap out... but generally there's no need to replace until that happens.

Not necessarily a big project to replace individual stuff like that, and then overall cost more often depends on whether you do the labor or hire it done.

Eisenglass and canvas bits wear out over time, but cleaning the clears when they need it is normal maintenance. Construction in the first place can matter; Tenara thread, for example, would general make a bimini last longer.

Lines and fenders and such are more like consumables, similar to engine oil and filters and so forth. Use 'em, replace 'em as needed.

Yes, a genset is a bigger deal, but then good ones run forever with good service... (knock wood)... similar to good mains (knocking, again)...

-Chris
Chris,

Good points and I agree. If an older boat can be had where a lot of this has been done, it could make a great boat, but if most of it is old, it will all need replacement or fixing in short order and that's what I'd want to avoid.
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Old 09-16-2016, 10:05 AM   #97
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Good luck with nothing going wrong on a newer boat.
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Old 09-16-2016, 10:35 AM   #98
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Good luck with nothing going wrong on a newer boat.

So true I had to spit up my coffee laughing !!!
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Old 09-17-2016, 07:56 AM   #99
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"Good luck with nothing going wrong on a newer boat."

Good advice , the reason is the system installation is at least as important as the equipment chosen.

This is where a great pre delivery survey will pay for itself.
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Old 09-19-2016, 03:53 PM   #100
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Hi all....I hope you don't mind me jumping in on this thread. but it matches some of my situation. I too am looking into possibly changing boats to cross "doing the loop" off my bucket list. This would be a multi-year trip storing the boat along the way each fall. I have read SeeVee's posts and your replies with great interest. I have also read Captain John and a few other's take on this as I have been contemplating this for a couple years. I am asking for your perspective.

Looking back to some earlier suggestions that SeeVee's current boat is capable has me rethinking. Currently I have an under ten year old very comfortable 36' (plus a couple if LOA) aft cabin MY that we live on during the summers on Lake Champlain. Obviously we do travel on parts of the northeast loop. We have done the "little triangle" portion of the loop (Champlain, Erie Canal, Lake Ontario, St. Lawrence Seaway) as well as trips south as far as mid-NJ. We usually do one big trip a season and cruise the lake and canals for the remainder. I have had the boat since new and know that it is sound and as near perfect as can be. The one glitch is it is gas . It can do a bit better than 1 mpg at 9 mph; crossing into 10 mph and above puts me over 1 gallon per mile (all in miles not knots). In addition, my on-plane cruise fuel burn is 0.6 gallons per mile when dialed in around 20 something mph. Not ideal, but fine for plugging around my home waters. We actually enjoy and favor the 9 mph speed most days and benefit from the savings. After doing the loop, thoughts are of changing it up a bit and moving away from boating (at our current level) as I have been doing it for 24 years.

So is it foolish (or should I say fuel-ish) to think, as some have said to SeeVee, my current boat may be fine? Or have I crossed over the reasonable line? Today is the day I was going to list my boat and start looking for that perfect loop boat. Using my boat would make things simpler but is that smarter?
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