Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 06-25-2014, 03:13 PM   #41
Guru
 
City: gulf coast
Country: pinellas
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,805
Anything but a ramble, spot on though following it will reduce business for divorce attorneys and boat salesmen. []
__________________
Advertisement

bayview is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2014, 11:55 PM   #42
Art
Guru
 
Art's Avatar
 
City: SF Bay Area
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Tollycraft 34' Tri Cabin
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,582
I cannot even imagine what difficulty is in store for new boaters (with no previous experience) who have decided they now want to join the boating world.

We were lucky when we jumped back into boating (we were out for well over a decade)... in that I had from birth decades experience in New England coastal cruising and fishing, and, I had experience on umpteen different model/brand boats... as well as building-new in manufacturer and restoring them in 1st class boat yards. Linda had years on house boats and ski boats. Even though, when we came back in we needed to learn what we'd missed and what had become available. It was a pretty steep learning curve for a couple years as we visited and went out on many, many boats for-sale. We made a good list of must haves, sure would be nice, and heck no's - not on a bet! After years of looking we fell upon our Tolly and it was love at first sight! She met just about our every “boat wish” for this time of life. We'd only been aboard her for a couple minutes, with owner not looking at us, I saw Linda's smile and I winked at her... she winked twice right back. I had DP on Tolly the next day, contingencies of course. Within a week and a half I pulled her out of the slip and docked her where we already held a slip in reserve. The rest is history... and... the fun story continues!

I really think that there should be a course available that can knowledgably introduce newbies to “boating world”. There would need to be many levels that care for different people’s plans of using a boat. Boats are a complex animal and boat users are even way more complex!

Happy Boat Search Daze - Art

PS: There are sone really, really good posts on this thread!!
__________________

Art is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2014, 02:27 AM   #43
Moderator Emeritus
 
BruceK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 5,990
George(Caltexflanc), what make is "Sixpence", in the pic with your boat?
__________________
BruceK
Island Gypsy 36 Europa "Doriana"
Sydney Australia
BruceK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2014, 02:51 AM   #44
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 8,485
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceK View Post
George(Caltexflanc), what make is "Sixpence", in the pic with your boat?
55' Fleming.
BandB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2014, 02:54 AM   #45
Moderator Emeritus
 
BruceK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 5,990
Quote:
Originally Posted by BandB View Post
55' Fleming.
Surprising. I`d expect to recognize one, must be the angle & adjacent features.
__________________
BruceK
Island Gypsy 36 Europa "Doriana"
Sydney Australia
BruceK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2014, 03:05 AM   #46
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 8,485
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceK View Post
Surprising. I`d expect to recognize one, must be the angle & adjacent features.
They look far more imposing from the side. But a 55 Fleming is still a significantly smaller boat than his 56 Hatteras. Now, that's partly the reason Fleming has introduced a 58 now.

Comparing the 58 to the 55, the 58 is 1'6" wider, the waterline length is 5'10" longer, the weight is 33% greater. In some ways the ideal boat has the space of a larger boat, handles like a smaller one, has the ride of a larger, the economy of a smaller, has the comfort of a larger, the cost of a smaller one.
BandB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2014, 08:58 AM   #47
Guru
 
City: gulf coast
Country: pinellas
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,805
Quote:
In some ways the ideal boat has the space of a larger boat, handles like a smaller one, has the ride of a larger, the economy of a smaller, has the comfort of a larger, the cost of a smaller one.
I agree and... all lunches would be free and all children smarter than average.
bayview is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2014, 10:16 AM   #48
Guru
 
City: gulf coast
Country: pinellas
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,805
The Flemming is probably narrower than the Hatt and it is certainly lower. Keeping weight lower reduces roll as does narrower hull. It may be more easily driven and probably less displacement yielding better fuel economy at the same speed. But there is no comparison to the Hatt when it comes to living space and creature comforts.

If you want a gorgeous looking offshore patrol boat with spray flying and green water over the bow the Fleming is your boat. If you want to cruise long term the Hatt wins hands down.
bayview is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2014, 10:26 AM   #49
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 12,942
1. Roll is determined by the entire design...weight placed well affects roll and too fast (snap) a roll is not desired anyway.

2. Narrower hull can have a fast or slow or great or small roll..all depends on design.

3. Design has a lot to do with economy...long, thin and light certainly helps...but is not the only set of design criteria to make an efficient boat. It usually impacts on a lot of other design criteria.

4. Hatts are nice for some..but not everyone's cup of tea and certainly not the only vessel to consider....
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2014, 10:58 AM   #50
Art
Guru
 
Art's Avatar
 
City: SF Bay Area
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Tollycraft 34' Tri Cabin
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,582
Heck - Consider Tollycraft... I am biased!
Art is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2014, 01:26 PM   #51
Guru
 
caltexflanc's Avatar
 
City: North Carolina for now
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Small Incentive
Vessel Model: Boston Whaler 130 Sport
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,446
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
1. Roll is determined by the entire design...weight placed well affects roll and too fast (snap) a roll is not desired anyway.

2. Narrower hull can have a fast or slow or great or small roll..all depends on design.

3. Design has a lot to do with economy...long, thin and light certainly helps...but is not the only set of design criteria to make an efficient boat. It usually impacts on a lot of other design criteria.

4. Hatts are nice for some..but not everyone's cup of tea and certainly not the only vessel to consider....
Absolutely agree on all points. I tried to make it clear I thought the Fleming would definitely be superior underway. The Hatt is not easy to board, requiring a ladder or sea stairs. Requires some rodeo skills to bring in to floating docks unaided from shore. Rather "bobby" , in my opinion needs stabilizers for comfort (we sure could tell when they were not working). Quite a "wet" boat by the way. That said, we had it in a lot of cruddy conditions, no problema. For living on full time, entertaining and maintaining/fixing, virtually ideal..... for us .
__________________
George

"There's the Right Way, the Wrong Way, and what some guy says he's gotten away with"
caltexflanc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2014, 02:21 PM   #52
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 12,942
Hey there's a guy that I drive for who just called and said the best offer thay had for their Hatt (late 60's I think..but could be a little newer) was $35,000.

It just had a complete exterior paint job and complete main house refinishing inside.

Not a bad boat at that price..even I would have considered it. I could have bought a lot of fuel buying in at that price.

They were asking over a hundred but he asked me if I thought that was the best he was going to do.

At that price I figured they would just keep it as a summer condo at the beach.
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2014, 02:31 PM   #53
Guru
 
eyschulman's Avatar
 
City: Seattle
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Moon River
Vessel Model: Devlin 48
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 935
Some times the hard part is sorting out the difference between what you need and what you want. Also it is often difficult to be honest with yourself about how you are actually going to use the boat vs an embellished imagination. The ideal is to find a boat well matched to its use pattern as a boat and as a living accommodation that coincidently fits your budget for buying and maintaining..
eyschulman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2014, 03:00 PM   #54
Guru
 
Capthead's Avatar
 
City: Long Beach, CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Heads Up
Vessel Model: Grand Banks 42 Classic
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 940
Everybody thinks they can steal boats now. My buddy has a 60' Michelson 2004 with twin MTU's and he thought he would sell it fast. Offers aren't coming in and it's been in one big boat show too.

He is nervous.
Capthead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2014, 03:37 PM   #55
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 8,485
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capthead View Post
Everybody thinks they can steal boats now. My buddy has a 60' Michelson 2004 with twin MTU's and he thought he would sell it fast. Offers aren't coming in and it's been in one big boat show too.

He is nervous.
It's not stealing when you buy a boat for market price in a negotiation with a seller. Why anyone would think they'd sell any large boat fast is beyond me. Offers don't pile in. Many remain for sale for years. And pricing is certainly a factor. Obviously others don't think his boat is worth as much as he does.

It just takes one.

Ok, just takes one buyer to be willing to make his price. But also just takes one seller to offer lower to skew the market and keep the higher priced boats from selling. The market is full of boats and many are being sold at very low prices compared to what others are asking.
BandB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2014, 04:24 PM   #56
Guru
 
Capthead's Avatar
 
City: Long Beach, CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Heads Up
Vessel Model: Grand Banks 42 Classic
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 940
Stealing is a figure of speech.
When a book price is 70-120K and it sells for 35K and had 20K of work on it recently, that might qualify. But as I always said in the car business, any deal both parties are happy with, is a great deal.
Capthead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2014, 05:10 PM   #57
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 12,942
When you get into certain types of boats and larger sized boats...I'm not sure there really is a book value...

Kinda like in some areas for real estate..."there are no comps"...or some poor real estate agent is trying to match a Mcmansion to a couple double wides.

Some boats these days may just sit forever till they head for the dumpster...just too many alternatives every day showing up on the market.

I've seen 2 nice, older but fully functional, turn key boats at the marina I'm at (which is pretty small) that the owners tried to give away and were turned down by numerous people.
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2014, 05:31 PM   #58
Guru
 
healhustler's Avatar
 
City: Longboat Key, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Bucky
Vessel Model: Krogen Manatee 36 North Sea
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,886
Quote:
Originally Posted by janice142 View Post
It is also critical that both partners love the boat. "Happy wife/happy life" as Jeff Allen says. On occasion the Better Half isn't heard -- I mean really really heard.

Great rambling, Janice. I think you're really on to something there. It's an infinite spectrum of the not-hearing issue that divide couples on so many issues. When it comes to a big purchase, I do the research and present my findings to the Admiral. We look at the options and I "listen". I'm the adaptable one between the two of us so she gets what she deems "practical" first (which has nothing to do with practicality), and then I get what's practical for me (affordable and manageable), and then we both rush head-long into an emotional decision, hoping for a "practical" result.

The drive to have our own dream often leads to a delusion that our spouse should and could join our dream the way we see it, feel it, realize it, and we'd rather not hear that it doesn't work that way.
__________________
Larry

"I'd rather be happy than dignified".
healhustler is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2014, 05:46 PM   #59
Guru
 
healhustler's Avatar
 
City: Longboat Key, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Bucky
Vessel Model: Krogen Manatee 36 North Sea
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,886
Quote:
Originally Posted by eyschulman View Post
. It is often difficult to be honest with yourself about how you are actually going to use the boat vs an embellished imagination.
So well said, Eyschulman. If we simply exchange the word "boat" to almost any thing else, we'll find that the statement fits with just about any ridiculous situation existing in the world today, like below:


It is often difficult to be honest with yourself about how you are going to use the OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES vs. an embellished imagination.

No offense to anyone, by the way.
__________________
Larry

"I'd rather be happy than dignified".
healhustler is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2014, 06:11 PM   #60
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 8,485
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capthead View Post
Stealing is a figure of speech.
When a book price is 70-120K and it sells for 35K and had 20K of work on it recently, that might qualify. But as I always said in the car business, any deal both parties are happy with, is a great deal.
There just really isn't a book on boats. The market is too thin. NADA covers them but makes no distinction as to condition, location, desirability. The reason is that the market is too thin. There are simply not enough to have comparables plus the information is not available on sales. The boat you describe may or may not be a good purchase. But it wasn't, as it turns out, a $70-120 boat. And what had recently been spent on a boat means little.
__________________

BandB is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:28 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012