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Old 08-19-2012, 04:26 PM   #21
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Refugio-your link is pretty interesting. As it happens, I know the owner of "Paspatoo" pretty well. It is an interesting and fascinating boat. Admittedly, way overpriced at $1.5M. As the owner is a pretty idiosyncratic guy, the boat is as well. Has some very interesting features and very interesting solutions to some problems. For instance, the owner thought the engine too load so had the entire engine covered in a custom "sound blanket" suspended over the engine on wires. It is a really funky vessel. I would also bet it has not had 100 hours on it in the last ten years. The owner spends almost obscene amounts each year keeping it up, but he can well afford to. So, while it is overpriced, no buyer should look for the owner to greatly reduce the price, he has no financial need to sell. Also interesting to note that it is not a documented vessel, quite rare for a boat that size.
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Old 08-19-2012, 06:08 PM   #22
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NADA "book" prices vs. reality

Even back in the early 2000's when the boat market was fairly hot the NADA prices were way out of line with reality for 30' and up Yachts. Yachtworld's prices, even today are much more in line. Go to a broker you trust and ask him / her to run sold prices for boats that are comparable to what you are looking for. I frankly have absolutely no idea where and how NADA determines their values unless they smoke something funny before they sit down and run their values. Even the finance folks a good laugh from their valuations.
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Old 08-20-2012, 12:44 AM   #23
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For smart buyers, choosing, paying for, and owning a boat, car, house, motorcycle, plane... etc all have four easy steps (regarding 2012 / 13):

1. Only choose an item that best fits your needs (the buyer must thoroughly define ALL their “needed parameters” very well before commencing any product search)
2. Only pay the amount that you clearly have mathematically determined you can afford for ANY item
3. Know before any purchase that owning the item is what you REALLY want to have occur... definitely for the short and possibly for the long term
4. Shop for the item under guidelines of #’s one, two, three

Be prepared to NOT fall in love with any item prior to the purchase and then for at least a short period of time after initial ownership... because... you need to be a hard-nosed dealer to make sure you get the best price you possibly can for a good product. Forget about list prices, asking prices, comparables and other $$$-valuation BS - - > Simply offer the lowest price you feel might be entertained by the seller. If your offer is not entertained, then kick that item to the curb and find the next similar item to offer on. This is a buyer’s market - Period! There are hundreds/thousands of every type item for sale; often needing to be sold by the current owners. Play “Hard-Ball”. The correct item at the correct price will eventually be yours. But, expect that you may need to put some time and effort into your search.

Get It On! In 2012 / 13 - - > Lucky Buyers!!

Sorry sellers – This is currently the name of the game!
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Old 08-20-2012, 08:37 AM   #24
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NADA - National Automotive Dealers Association........the name says it all. They have no clue about boats.
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Old 08-20-2012, 08:56 AM   #25
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NADA - National Automotive Dealers Association........the name says it all. They have no clue about boats.
They sometime don't have a clue about cars and truck either.
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Old 08-20-2012, 09:33 AM   #26
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So true JD i was able to talk my mother out of her Mercedes E320, One owner low miles and garage kept, No way would i have paid what they claimed it was worth . I Guess boats are the same.
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Old 08-20-2012, 09:33 AM   #27
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... do the boat brokers think boats do not apply ?
It is really a stretch for me to defend boat brokers but there are many times I wish a buyer had involved a broker before buying a nightmare that probably would not have gotten past a broker.

The idea that the price is some scam by the broker to gouge an unsuspecting buyer is also not quite accurate. Very often the owner demands the broker advertise a ridiculous price and a hungry broker will succumb to the pressure just to get the listing rather than tell the owner to get real. Brokers don't make money by listing boats, they make it by selling boats.

We see it a lot in the big yacht business, an owner will ask for about 4 times what the boat is worth, then turn down an offer of twice what it finally sells for a couple of years later after paying a fortune for moorange and maintenance. Or, the owner won't listen when the broker tells him he has to lower the price, then finally dumps the first broker and turns it over to another broker who sells it for what the first broker told the owner it should be priced at. The first broker usually gets stuck with all the costs of advertising and owner education and the next broker looks like a hero ...

The only deals that are good for everyone are those that involve an educated buyer, seller, and broker. If one of those is missing, it's a crap shoot.
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Old 08-20-2012, 11:08 AM   #28
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So true JD i was able to talk my mother out of her Mercedes E320, One owner low miles and garage kept, No way would i have paid what they claimed it was worth . I Guess boats are the same.
The problem is they get the numbers from the their dealer base. The reporting system was horrible and unreilable but I'm not sure they have fixed it.

Not unlike some boat dealers that overstate their products sales price for the report in hopes of keeping their numbers up it is a bigger joke on how they get the numbers from the dealers. Keep in mind that a boat dealer as compared to a car dealer sells way fewer boats a month. So that means that a boat dealers sales manager may not mind taking thirty minutes out of his month to report the numbers on a form and submit it. A car dealer on the other hand that sells 500+ used cars a month sales manger does not nor will do it. So when they get beat up about it they sit down and fake a few numbers to get their factory rep off of their back. I know because I have been on both sides of that game. Getting the numbers and giving the numbers.
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Old 08-20-2012, 12:28 PM   #29
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This pretty much sums it up.

I Want To Sell My Yacht | Xtranormal
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Old 08-20-2012, 12:38 PM   #30
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This pretty much sums it up.

I Want To Sell My Yacht | Xtranormal
Larry - Perfect!
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Old 09-02-2012, 06:52 PM   #31
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Great thread and on target for me.
I want to buy a trawler (or trawlerish) anywhere along the great loop. Want to move aboard next spring.

Yacht world prices often range from $19,000 to upwards of $75,000 for the same make, model and year range. I understand condition varies a great deal, but I have looked at boats advertised as "great condition" near the high end of the price range that were truly awful.

I am struggling to figure all this out. A buyers broker would be nice but given that these boats are all over the east coast and great lakes, I'm not sure how realistic that is.

So, I will follow along with interest.

Thanks, Arch
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Old 09-02-2012, 08:35 PM   #32
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Seems to me that particularly for older boats, the fair price really depends on the systems installed. The extent and quality of them. Pretty hard for any statistical methods to get that right. You need someone very familiar with the make/model, and recent sales. A good broker is invaluable.

Other than systems, the amount of 'deferred maintenance' is a big factor, which can add up if you have it done for you.

My advice is to look at a lot of the particular model you are targeting - you will build some knowledge, as well as see interesting ideas from previous owners.

And only buy something you plan on keeping for 10 years, then the money you will spend on short term R&M is effectively amortised over a decent period of use.
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Old 09-03-2012, 06:31 AM   #33
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I want to buy a trawler (or trawlerish) anywhere along the great loop. Want to move aboard next spring.

Florida will be 30% to 50 % cheaper than further north.

Look in Florida Mariner .

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Old 09-04-2012, 10:55 AM   #34
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i think almost every boat out there is overpriced. People still living in the past. They are paying slip,insurance, and maintenance(if you are lucky). Brokers are trying to get the biggest commission they can. Have the broker print you out the past sales of the model you are looking at as well as similar models. A good place to start. Make an offer on what the boat is worth. You can buy a lot of 40" boats at less then $100K. Remember the owner probably upped the price $10k to cover the commission. A BROKER WILL DIRECT YOU TO A HIGHER PRICED BOAT EVERY TIME. When you do a walk through take pictures of anything you find that needs to be fixed. Put it on a sheet of paper and assign a price to each. Good staring point. Your best way to find a boat is to
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Old 09-04-2012, 12:54 PM   #35
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[QUOTE=Baypoint;101689] . A BROKER WILL DIRECT YOU TO A HIGHER PRICED BOAT EVERY TIME.

Most brokers want a return on their time so they will direct their clients to the best deals availble. Now in the age of the internet buyers are much more knowledgable about what they are looking at, I want to bring clients to boats that fit their needs at a price that is attractive.
I will on a regular basis direct a client to a more expensive boat that is in better condition, with better upgrades, but only if it is better value.
If someone thinks that they can raise their asking price because a broker is listing the boat they are not likely to sell.
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Old 09-04-2012, 01:57 PM   #36
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This pretty much sums it up.

I Want To Sell My Yacht | Xtranormal

Is there another one where the intelligent boater pays some knucklehead broker a huge commission after selling the boat despite it being brokered?

In all fairness there's good and bad on both sides of the coin.
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Old 09-04-2012, 02:21 PM   #37
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"Now in the age of the internet buyers are much more knowledgable about what they are looking at,"

I think this is true. In addition, the Internet allows me to look at boats all over the world to get comparisons.

A couple of other thoughts:
I have a friend with a wonderfully restored and equipped Irwin 37 (sailboat). He has over $160,000 into the boat and figures it would sell for maybe $65,000. Many sellers want their money back. An $80,000 fully restored 1980 trawler is competing in the market with both much newer boats at that price and with much cheaper boats of that vintage. Tough market to be in.

As to brokers upselling, they certainly do it. While the motive may be to sell me a better boat. If I have clearly stated that I am a cash buyer, and I have $xxx to spend, it does no good to show me more expensive boats. This simply tells me that they aren't listening to me.

I am enjoying this thread, thanks,
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Old 09-04-2012, 02:45 PM   #38
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There are good value priced boats at every range of the market but they get crowded out by overpriced dreamers IMO. The ads I like the most are the ones with older boats with on-going restoration work. The seller writes into the ad copy that as he does more repairs he'll raise the price of the boat! What a joke IMO.

I was scheduled to look at a boat 3 hours from now that I found yesterday afternoon and was called last night at 7pm and informed it sold. It was on the market a grand total of 10 hours.

The lesson is don't procrastinate when you find one.
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Old 09-05-2012, 06:33 AM   #39
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Folks looking for a fixer upper need not bother with a broker.

100 Lookie Lous for each low buck boat , all with out the price of a gal of epoxy.

Brokers cant waste the time on a under $20,000 sale , unless there trailer boats that he can show dozens of with one stop at a marina.
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Old 09-05-2012, 07:36 AM   #40
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NADA, Kelly etc... are nothing but trash in my opinion, whether buying a boat, car or truck. Doing you own homework is the only way to have an idea of market value.
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